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I tour on a setup weighing ~28lbs (Bike, bags and gear!)

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I tour on a setup weighing ~28lbs (Bike, bags and gear!)

Old 12-24-16, 05:53 PM
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I like your video. Nice work! Looks like you enjoyed a great adventure.

Personal Comment: Your experience should be a cautionary-tale for those who want to believe that ultralight rigs are a direct replacement for more robust riggings, as espoused by myself and others

Last edited by BigAura; 12-24-16 at 05:58 PM.
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Old 12-24-16, 07:21 PM
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Originally Posted by sexy cyclist


Alright! I apologize its so long...I don't think I'm very good at making touring videos

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXRR7Rb-35k

[youtube]aXRR7Rb-35k[/youtube]
I think you make great touring videos. You nicely capture a day of touring and ending up in a place that is welcome because it has cover, electricity and running water.
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Old 12-24-16, 07:26 PM
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Originally Posted by BigAura
I like your video. Nice work! Looks like you enjoyed a great adventure.

Personal Comment: Your experience should be a cautionary-tale for those who want to believe that ultralight rigs are a direct replacement for more robust riggings, as espoused by myself and others
If you mean the puncture I think that would be easily fixed by going to a CF bike with larger tire clearances. Coming across the US I had 2 punctures on my 25mm Gatorskins, but I think I'll be going from the Cervelo RS to something with disc brakes and at least 32 mm tire clearances in future.
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Old 12-24-16, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by nun
If you mean the puncture I think that would be easily fixed by going to a CF bike with larger tire clearances. Coming across the US I had 2 punctures on my 25mm Gatorskins, but I think I'll be going from the Cervelo RS to something with disc brakes and at least 32 mm tire clearances in future.
So...something more robust?

As I've posted many times: I'm all for a carbon-touring-bike, but I haven't seen anything that hits the nail on the head. Repurposing racing-bikes for touring doesn't cut it as it once did. To replace the steel-touring-bike we're gonna need a purpose-built carbon-touring-bike, IMO.
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Old 12-24-16, 09:29 PM
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[MENTION=42661]nun[/MENTION], If I only had two punctures in that many miles, I'd consider myself lucky. There is something to be said about the larger tire being more appropriate, IMHO. Certainly more comfortable on rough patches of road. Are you considering a CX bike?
[MENTION=94547]BigAura[/MENTION], With 20 lb., or less, my distance roadie was, and still could be as robust as needed. I think this is true for most, if not all roadies. If I didn't already have a touring bike I'd be pretty content with the roadie, I do believe.

I decided to use my touring bike simply because it's more suited to straight line mileage with it's slacker head tube angle and longer wheel base. It's also only 6.5 lb. heavier than the roadie.

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Old 12-24-16, 11:05 PM
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Originally Posted by BigAura
So...something more robust?

As I've posted many times: I'm all for a carbon-touring-bike, but I haven't seen anything that hits the nail on the head. Repurposing racing-bikes for touring doesn't cut it as it once did. To replace the steel-touring-bike we're gonna need a purpose-built carbon-touring-bike, IMO.
I feel that the new endurance and gravel carbon bikes are perfect for light weight touring....The Cervelo RS has worked very well for me on road tours, but I can see the utility of slightly wider tires and those now come on plenty of CF bikes with more relaxed geometries than full on road bikes.
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Old 12-24-16, 11:16 PM
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Originally Posted by bradtx
[MENTION=42661]nun[/MENTION], If I only had two punctures in that many miles, I'd consider myself lucky. There is something to be said about the larger tire being more appropriate, IMHO. Certainly more comfortable on rough patches of road. Are you considering a CX bike?
Something like a CX, gravel or endurance bike with disk brakes and with room for 32 mm tires. I like the look of the Salsa Warbird or the Santa Cruz Stigmata

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Old 12-24-16, 11:43 PM
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Originally Posted by BigAura
I like your video. Nice work! Looks like you enjoyed a great adventure.

Personal Comment: Your experience should be a cautionary-tale for those who want to believe that ultralight rigs are a direct replacement for more robust riggings, as espoused by myself and others
Once again I think you are very wrong. The Emonda he rides is a very robust bicycle, wheels included. Particularly for a light rider with a light load.
There are certainly other ways to build a more robust bicycle rather than simply throwing thicker steel at it. And in the process you get a bicycle that climbs, handles, brakes better. All in all a more comfortable ride.
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Old 12-24-16, 11:48 PM
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Originally Posted by BigAura
So...something more robust?

As I've posted many times: I'm all for a carbon-touring-bike, but I haven't seen anything that hits the nail on the head. Repurposing racing-bikes for touring doesn't cut it as it once did. To replace the steel-touring-bike we're gonna need a purpose-built carbon-touring-bike, IMO.
The Salsa Warbird and similar bicycles ARE purpose built light touring bicycles. Cut your gear list and you could be on one also.
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Old 12-25-16, 06:04 AM
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[MENTION=42661]nun[/MENTION], When I switched out the 23 mm tires for 28 mm tires on my daughter's Volpe, she was happier with the increased comfort. 32 mm tires would be even better, but she's using a narrow roadie wheel set and I was conservative.

With all of the new products aimed at back packers and bike packers, a lighter duty touring bike certainly makes sense. With what I've learned in a few short years (packing too much to too little to somewhere in between) I could easily make do without an expedition level touring bike.

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Old 12-25-16, 08:06 AM
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Originally Posted by nun
I feel that the new endurance and gravel carbon bikes are perfect for light weight touring.
+1 on that. I thought the whole gravel bike thing was a fad, but there have been a lot of "gravel" bikes released that would be perfect for touring. I've been eyeballing this one. Not exactly super light, but a great deal for the price.

Last edited by DXchulo; 12-25-16 at 08:17 AM.
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Old 12-25-16, 08:16 AM
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Originally Posted by Will Wheeler
What I appreciate most with bikepacking is the aero aspect of it. It makes a significant difference to be relieved from those "sails" (panniers) hanging down the sides of the bike. Go faster - go further!
I tried one of those proper bikepacking saddle bags last fall but I didn't like it. Now it's for sale. Too much swaying for my taste, so I went back to using a rear rack with a 22L roll-top dry bag (Ortlieb PD350) strapped to it. Despite being a little bit harder to pack and unpack, it works better in my opinion, is much cheaper, and I can also stuff more "s#|t" into it.
Interesting. I'm debating panniers vs. bikepacking bags right now. My main tour in 2017 will be credit card style, so I won't be camping and can go very light. My only issue is there are some days where there's a long distance between water spots, so I'll be carrying a heavy load of water.

I already have the rack and panniers and old habits are hard to break.
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Old 12-25-16, 08:58 AM
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Originally Posted by nun
Something like a CX, gravel or endurance bike with disk brakes and with room for 32 mm tires. I like the look of the Salsa Warbird or the Santa Cruz Stigmata
I'll definitely give it a try...next time I have a film crew following me in a van

Actually it looks good. I've done a couple of tours (including this past summer on a single-braked fixed-gear) on 32mm tires and they are sufficient, IMO, for light packed touring.


bike, bags & gear = ~42lbs

BUT AGAIN I would not consider it as a substitute for a real--touring-bike.

My criteria: A truly expedition-robust bike able to negotiate any road or off-road, carry a self-supported solo rider on a months long tour including days without resupply.


bike, bags & gear = ~65lbs

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Old 12-25-16, 09:18 AM
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Originally Posted by nun
If you mean the puncture I think that would be easily fixed by going to a CF bike with larger tire clearances. Coming across the US I had 2 punctures on my 25mm Gatorskins, but I think I'll be going from the Cervelo RS to something with disc brakes and at least 32 mm tire clearances in future.
It's not carbon, but the soma double cross disc (or the cantilever version) is pretty sweet. It has dual eyelets front and rear and mid fork bosses. Plus it's a great ride; I own one and it is, I think, a really fine long distance machine. I'm currently running it with 32c tires.
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Old 12-25-16, 09:50 AM
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I tour on a set-up weighing 82 lbs.
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Old 12-25-16, 11:20 AM
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Originally Posted by DXchulo
Interesting. I'm debating panniers vs. bikepacking bags right now. My main tour in 2017 will be credit card style, so I won't be camping and can go very light. My only issue is there are some days where there's a long distance between water spots, so I'll be carrying a heavy load of water.

I already have the rack and panniers and old habits are hard to break.
I would love to go credit card touring but unfortunately I live in a country were motels are nonexistent, a hotel room costs 150$/night and even a cabin at a camping site will ruin you.
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Old 12-25-16, 11:52 PM
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Originally Posted by staehpj1

I have taken either a 10 ounce REI Flash 18 or a 2.4 ounce Sea to Summit Ultra-Sil one and been happy with them. Initially I took one to use for carry extra stuff on those few days where I needed more than a day of water or something
I was wondering about those sea to summit ones. I thought about picking one up for grocery runs late at night. I typically carry very little food, then when I'm preparing to camp I'll stop by a grocery store and pick up a fruit smoothie, foot long sub, or whatever else looks good for dinner. Some sort of backpack with a minimal weight penalty would be nice for that.

Originally Posted by reppans
Great stuff guys...

I have a CX bike that I'm looking to rig bike-packing style for longer rides and unpaved rail-trail touring that will probably take me into @nun 's ~37 lbs / 30 liter range. I too am opting for a tent (double-wall), some cooking gear, and a change of clothing or two - can't seem to get much below 15 lbs on the gear and bags half.

At the moment, I'm currently short-touring with ~43 lbs / 30Ls, and while it's neither particular lightweight nor fast, I have a feeling it might be the most "compact" rig here - clicky .
I've used tents in the past with under 10lb setups. I did a 1400 mile 2 week tour with a Eureka Solitaire. You can definitely find lighter tents but for the price to weight ratio its hard to beat.

Also your folding bike setup is awesome! That looks perfect for people that enjoy visiting various attractions like your photo shows. I can definitely see the appeal of that!

Originally Posted by Will Wheeler
I tried one of those proper bikepacking saddle bags last fall but I didn't like ii. Now it's for sale. Too much swaying for my taste
That can definitely be an issue with packs like the Viscacha. On that tent tour I just mentioned I carried all my gear in a Viscacha except for a small top tube pouch for my phone and wallet. It swayed a lot. Another thing I've learned is pack the heaviest items closest to the seatpost.

I bought the Tangle frame bag so I could spread the weight out more and utilize that wasted space in my frame to avoid this issue.

Originally Posted by andrewclaus
At some point you get light enough and it's not fun or worthwhile getting lighter.
True. I've added a few minor things that I could definitely do without. I don't need a pillow, in the past I just used my spare clothing as one. But I decided 2.5oz is worth the comfort increase. I could also leave my bluetooth speaker at home, but riding to some acoustic folk music as you're soloing through the mountains puts a smile on my face

Originally Posted by BigAura
I like your video. Nice work! Looks like you enjoyed a great adventure.

Personal Comment: Your experience should be a cautionary-tale for those who want to believe that ultralight rigs are a direct replacement for more robust riggings, as espoused by myself and others
Thanks! I'm not sure what you mean about robustness though? I had the same number of flats on my last trip as I did on my first with that wide tired MTB. Same number as my first road bike tour where I ran gatorskins. I've had two racing bike tours with no flats (1400 miles on 25mm gatorskins & 800 miles on specialized roubaix pro 23/25mm). Those 24 spoke wheels supported around 230lbs without issue as well.

Originally Posted by BigAura
I'm all for a carbon-touring-bike, but I haven't seen anything that hits the nail on the head. Repurposing racing-bikes for touring doesn't cut it as it once did. To replace the steel-touring-bike we're gonna need a purpose-built carbon-touring-bike, IMO.
What needs of yours do they not that the steel framed touring built ones do? Maybe you do more off-roading than I do, or ride in snowy weather? I'd use a CX bike with much wider tires if In conditions like that, but for road touring my Emonda meets my needs. Of course everyone wants something different from a tour, which is why I ask

Originally Posted by DXchulo
Interesting. I'm debating panniers vs. bikepacking bags right now. My main tour in 2017 will be credit card style, so I won't be camping and can go very light. My only issue is there are some days where there's a long distance between water spots, so I'll be carrying a heavy load of water.

I already have the rack and panniers and old habits are hard to break.
Personally after being comfortable in cold weather with 10lbs of gear on a camping tour with no credit card, I'd feel like panniers are overkill. If I were credit card touring I could use this same setup with no trunk bag and attach another water bottle cage behind the seat. I've run this same frame bag on other road bikes and carried two water bottles. With two bottles and my 2.5L bladder I could go 80-100 miles without needing to stop for water, assuming I'm not somewhere ridiculously hot / humid. Here's a photo of a setup with the frame bag and two water bottles I used for the Blue Ridge Parkway:



Of course an argument can be made to use panniers, since you already own them

Last edited by sexy cyclist; 12-25-16 at 11:56 PM.
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Old 12-26-16, 06:37 AM
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What bluetooth speaker do you like for touring?

Originally Posted by sexy cyclist

And on the bike itself:

- Bluetooth speaker
- Go Pro Session
- Cygolite Metro 750
- Axiom pulse 60 x2
- 1 bottle cage that usually held my rain pants
- Twisty tie thing to secure my hydration bladder tube

Any questions? Shoot!
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Old 12-26-16, 07:48 AM
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Originally Posted by sexy cyclist
Thanks! I'm not sure what you mean about robustness though? I had the same number of flats on my last trip as I did on my first with that wide tired MTB. Same number as my first road bike tour where I ran gatorskins. I've had two racing bike tours with no flats (1400 miles on 25mm gatorskins & 800 miles on specialized roubaix pro 23/25mm). Those 24 spoke wheels supported around 230lbs without issue as well.
It's not the number of flats I'm talking about. It's the circumstance of those flats. You flatted when on rough off-road. More robust for what you were doing would be a CX and 32mm tires. My point again was that your racing bike was not up to task at hand, by your own admission:

Went slower than I had hoped...New River Trail wasn't as smooth as anticipated and I had a few minor set backs
See my post-30 (first section) where I did light-off-road this past summer on 32mm tires. Two weeks no flats. Could I have done my tour on a carbon CX & the same tires...sure.

Originally Posted by sexy cyclist
What needs of yours do they not that the steel framed touring built ones do? Maybe you do more off-roading than I do, or ride in snowy weather? I'd use a CX bike with much wider tires if In conditions like that, but for road touring my Emonda meets my needs. Of course everyone wants something different from a tour, which is why I ask
Yep. See my post-30 (second section) for what I'm talking about. I would never attempt that type of tour on a CX .

My main point reiterated: Modern racing bikes (CX included) are not direct replacements for modern touring bikes. It's not their material-composition that's at fault, it's their design. But yes...I'm ready for a purpose built carbon-tourer

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Old 12-26-16, 08:14 AM
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Originally Posted by BikeLite
What bluetooth speaker do you like for touring?
Outdoor Tech Buckshot 1

They have a pro version with extra features like a flashlight and the ability to charge your phone with it, and a version 2 of the regular model that adds a pocket clip, louder volume and a few other features.

I prefer the button layout and audio cues from the 1. They're on the bottom and easy to use without taking my eyes off the road. The 2 has them on the side and while they look bigger and easier to press, I find it less intuitive to switch tracks while riding.

Battery life on both models is around 20 hours, very good in that respect. They also function in a downpour being left completely exposed to the elements.
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Old 12-26-16, 08:18 AM
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Originally Posted by BigAura
It's not the number of flats I'm talking about. It's the circumstance of those flats. You flatted when on rough off-road. More robust for what you were doing would be a CX and 32mm tires. My point again was that your racing bike was not up to task at hand, by your own admission
I had a thorn of some sort go straight in and out. Could have punctured a wider tire too. It had nothing to do with my bike selection, just bad luck. I've gotten the exact same sort of punctures on wide tires. It wasn't from bumps or rocky terrain, it handled all the potholes in WV and southern OH just fine.

See my post-30 (first section) where I did light-off-road this past summer on 32mm tires. Two weeks no flats. Could I have done my tour on a carbon CX & the same tires...sure.
I've done light off roading tours with no punctures on 25mm I did this same route in the Spring as well, 23/25mm tires that time even. Zero flats.

Modern racing bikes (CX included) are not direct replacements for modern touring bikes.
I don't think anyone is trying to say they are. Modern racing bikes are perfectly suitable for touring with 10-30lbs of gear, prioritizing speed and agility over carrying capacity. No one should suggest using them with 4 panniers and a 60lb load though

Last edited by sexy cyclist; 12-26-16 at 08:22 AM.
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Old 12-26-16, 08:47 AM
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Originally Posted by sexy cyclist
...I don't think anyone is trying to say they are. Modern racing bikes are perfectly suitable for touring with 10-30lbs of gear, prioritizing speed and agility over carrying capacity. No one should suggest using them with 4 panniers and a 60lb load though
Agree, but I can't forget fenders. Some road bikes won't accept them. I often curse them, but they've kept me in a good place on many miserable days. Room for fenders is one of my hard criteria for touring (and commuting), actually more important to me than a triple crank.
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Old 12-26-16, 10:58 AM
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By adding a drybag to the front, you can greatly increase capacity. A couple changes of clothes, a 2-person tent and cooking gear transforms the bike into a full touring rig.

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Old 12-26-16, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by andrewclaus
Agree, but I can't forget fenders. Some road bikes won't accept them. I often curse them, but they've kept me in a good place on many miserable days. Room for fenders is one of my hard criteria for touring (and commuting), actually more important to me than a triple crank.
+ 1 on the fenders and the triple crank actually as well. They make all kinds of road bikes that can take fenders; just avoid those with short reach brakes. Heck eyelets and long reach brakes were pretty normal even in racing bikes in the 60s and up through the 70s.
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Old 12-26-16, 12:28 PM
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I look at some of these rigs and wonder if some people are kinda going to extremes to avoid a rack and panniers. I don't quite understand the aversion or why one would want to get one's center of gravity as high as possible short of mounting one's gear on one's helmet.
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