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I tour on a setup weighing ~28lbs (Bike, bags and gear!)

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I tour on a setup weighing ~28lbs (Bike, bags and gear!)

Old 12-26-16, 01:26 PM
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Nice video, please share the rest.
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Old 12-26-16, 01:45 PM
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Originally Posted by L134
I look at some of these rigs and wonder if some people are kinda going to extremes to avoid a rack and panniers. I don't quite understand the aversion or why one would want to get one's center of gravity as high as possible short of mounting one's gear on one's helmet.
If you are so concerned with your center of gravity, ride a recumbent. The most weight on a bike is your body, which is far above the rest of the bike. Never found the placement of bags higher to significantly impact handling, whether it be a backpack or frame bag or handlebar bag.
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Old 12-26-16, 01:48 PM
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Originally Posted by L134
I look at some of these rigs and wonder if some people are kinda going to extremes to avoid a rack and panniers. I don't quite understand the aversion or why one would want to get one's center of gravity as high as possible short of mounting one's gear on one's helmet.
I think the genesis of rackless set-ups was for bikepackers with suspension bikes, and a need for a thinner profile on single track.

I also wonder about the tradeoff on road bikes, since you need more, smaller bags. When I reduced my load to what will easily fit in two rear panniers, I looked at going rackless, but decided the cost was too high for the ounces saved, since I already had panniers. Access is easy with panniers, and I still have the capacity to haul large or bulky loads if needed. If I ever need to replace my panniers, I'll look at it again though.
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Old 12-26-16, 03:25 PM
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Originally Posted by andrewclaus
I think the genesis of rackless set-ups was for bikepackers with suspension bikes, and a need for a thinner profile on single track.

I also wonder about the tradeoff on road bikes, since you need more, smaller bags. When I reduced my load to what will easily fit in two rear panniers, I looked at going rackless, but decided the cost was too high for the ounces saved, since I already had panniers. Access is easy with panniers, and I still have the capacity to haul large or bulky loads if needed. If I ever need to replace my panniers, I'll look at it again though.
There were rackless systems long before the term bikepacking became trendy. I did tours in the 1970s with 2 friends where we carried a single tent between us and everything else in Carradice saddlebags and handlebar bags without frames and we were not the first to do that.
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Old 12-26-16, 03:30 PM
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Originally Posted by L134
I look at some of these rigs and wonder if some people are kinda going to extremes to avoid a rack and panniers. I don't quite understand the aversion or why one would want to get one's center of gravity as high as possible short of mounting one's gear on one's helmet.
Remember each bag will have a max of 10lbs of gear. I also find the effects are minimized with a transverse saddlebag because the weight is so close to the center of gravity....ie my butt. I find it hard to understand why putting 4 x panniers a long way from the center of gravity of the bike is an advantage if you like bike riding.
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Old 12-26-16, 04:37 PM
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What about a rear rack with a 20 or 30 L drysack. and maybe a handle bar roll with it.
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Old 12-27-16, 01:49 AM
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Originally Posted by L134
I look at some of these rigs and wonder if some people are kinda going to extremes to avoid a rack and panniers. I don't quite understand the aversion or why one would want to get one's center of gravity as high as possible short of mounting one's gear on one's helmet.
Couple reasons.

* Frame bags let me use my commuting bike to tour. If I used panniers I'd need a new bike, and panniers. That's a grand, easy.
* I don't need that much storage. My frame bags aren't a compromise, they're all I need.
* More aero. I care about my speed more than most when I tour. I like doing 100-150 mile days, back to back even, but I don't want to be riding until midnight

I also make a point to put small, heavy items in the frame bag to minimize weight swinging behind my seat.

I don't want to get my center of gravity any higher than I can avoid, but with no more than 4.5lbs per bag its a complete non-issue. My bike, bags and gear weigh under 30lbs combined, it handles like a dream.
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Old 12-27-16, 01:55 AM
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Originally Posted by bhchdh
Nice video, please share the rest.
Thank you I'll get to editing the next day's videos. In the meantime here is one from another trip:


EDIT: Man....re-watching this video makes me really miss West Virginia. Such a gorgeous state!

Last edited by sexy cyclist; 12-27-16 at 02:01 AM.
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Old 12-27-16, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by sexy cyclist
I
Ah, welcome back BuffaloBuff! I couldnt figure out why the thread seemed so familiar until seeing this bike. The bragging, UL packing, and absurdly long back to back distances were all dejavu for a reason.

Well, at least your new online personality is less combative this time around. <---find the compliment in there if you want.
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Old 12-27-16, 08:39 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Ah, welcome back BuffaloBuff! I couldnt figure out why the thread seemed so familiar until seeing this bike. The bragging, UL packing, and absurdly long back to back distances were all dejavu for a reason.

Well, at least your new online personality is less combative this time around. <---find the compliment in there if you want.
Looks like the OP has been outed, . Definitely a bit more mellow than the previous version. Some of the claimed weights were interesting.
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Old 12-27-16, 08:50 AM
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Originally Posted by bikemig
Looks like the OP has been outed, . Definitely a bit more mellow than the previous version. Some of the claimed weights were interesting.
Ha, full disclosure- If I could ride back to back 150mi days and rock a road bike with a 4" saddle to bar drop while needing only 8# of gear fully loaded, admittedly I probably would not be too humble either.




ETA- I saw you mentioned you are building something up now...a go anywhere touring bike perhaps?
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Old 12-27-16, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Ah, welcome back BuffaloBuff! I couldnt figure out why the thread seemed so familiar until seeing this bike. The bragging, UL packing, and absurdly long back to back distances were all dejavu for a reason.

Well, at least your new online personality is less combative this time around. <---find the compliment in there if you want.
I'm going to try to not be an ******* this time. In return I'd like to keep this thread on topic. Thanks for the welcome
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Old 12-27-16, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Ha, full disclosure- If I could ride back to back 150mi days and rock a road bike with a 4" saddle to bar drop while needing only 8# of gear fully loaded, admittedly I probably would not be too humble either.




ETA- I saw you mentioned you are building something up now...a go anywhere touring bike perhaps?
A one speed winter bike. My last winter bike--a vintage mtb--didn't work out all the great (the snow really got to the gearing) so I'm building up a one speed.

But yeah, a go anywhere touring bike sounds good as well. Maybe it's time to do some gravel road touring?

Now back to our readily scheduled buffalobuff programming . . . .
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Old 12-27-16, 10:52 AM
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Originally Posted by sexy cyclist
Couple reasons.

* Frame bags let me use my commuting bike to tour. If I used panniers I'd need a new bike, and panniers. That's a grand, easy.
* I don't need that much storage. My frame bags aren't a compromise, they're all I need.
* More aero. I care about my speed more than most when I tour. I like doing 100-150 mile days, back to back even, but I don't want to be riding until midnight

I also make a point to put small, heavy items in the frame bag to minimize weight swinging behind my seat.

I don't want to get my center of gravity any higher than I can avoid, but with no more than 4.5lbs per bag its a complete non-issue. My bike, bags and gear weigh under 30lbs combined, it handles like a dream.
And, in your case, I think I understood all this. Just seemed like some of the weights being talked about were pushing outside what I might think of as UL. I'm also not sure I would want my "sails" up so high when riding in gusting cross winds. I was just sort of wondering whether or not there was some tipping point where avoiding racks and panniers stops making sense. I haven't researched it but, I wasn't under the impression that frame bags were exactly inexpensive.
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Old 12-27-16, 11:10 AM
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The tipping point depends on what you start with. One person starting with a vintage steel touring frame (me) will have a different result than one starting with a carbon fiber racing frame (the OP). I get where he's coming from, but it does not apply in my case.
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Old 12-27-16, 11:48 AM
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The history of bikepacking vs panniers?
I've seen the photos of the pre WWI men with their single speeds and pretty much bikepacking gear. Then multispeed bicycles slowly developed.
But when did racks and panniers come into existence?
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Old 12-27-16, 01:40 PM
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Originally Posted by L134
I haven't researched it but, I wasn't under the impression that frame bags were exactly inexpensive.
Neither are 4 x Ortlieb panniers.

You can buy bike bags at lots of price points....some people use drybags and racks and others use plastic shopping bags. My criterion for bike bags is convenience. I only want to have two and I want to be able to carry them onto a plane or train as hand luggage. I don't like the many small bags that often decorate bikepacking bikes. I avoid racks because of their added weight and because they make packing a bike into a box or a carrying case a real pain. Also once the rack is gone I can tour on just about any bike that I choose.

I might look at bikepacking saddlebags sometime, but the handlbar set ups don't interest me because I like a handlebar bag that can be quickly and easily mounted for carrying around towns.
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Old 12-27-16, 08:29 PM
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bikepacking for manlymen:



https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm...d=536837676385
https://item.taobao.com/item.htm?spm...id=43653912407
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Old 12-28-16, 07:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Squeezebox
What about a rear rack with a 20 or 30 L drysack. and maybe a handle bar roll with it.
From my experience, the sack needs to be oblong and 20-22L is about max. volume you can fit on "normal sized" bike (mens medium or large) without giving you trouble. I have found two bags that works well for me and that is:
*Outdoor Research, Duct Tape Dry Bag 15L
*Ortlieb, Dry Bag PS490 22L
I am sure there are others out there too, but these are two examples of reasonably priced, good quality, bags.
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Old 12-28-16, 08:12 AM
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Originally Posted by andrewclaus
The tipping point depends on what you start with. One person starting with a vintage steel touring frame (me) will have a different result than one starting with a carbon fiber racing frame (the OP). I get where he's coming from, but it does not apply in my case.
This point seems to have been overlooked.

At best with the OP's cargo, weight wise, I can come to within two pounds, bike wise within 8.5 lb.

Brad
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Old 12-28-16, 08:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Squeezebox
The Salsa Warbird and similar bicycles ARE purpose built light touring bicycles. Cut your gear list and you could be on one also.
WELL: My list from my last tour (11-days July 2016) had a base weight of 17 pounds. Yes that includes my panniers, a two-man tent, and a kitchen.

BUT: Living in a bivy, eating raw food day-after-day, without a change of clothes is not appealing to me, especially on a months long tour. I don't care how many extra miles I can cover by shedding a dozen pounds.

PLUS: It does seem to me that many bike-packers are at least partial credit-carders: sleeping in hotels, hostels, and couch-surfing AND eating in restaurants & peoples' homes. Nothing wrong with this touring-style but I tend to like: camping-out AND cooking my own hot food, and being prepared to take an extra day or two in the back-country.
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Old 12-28-16, 08:48 AM
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Originally Posted by BigAura
WELL: My list from my last tour (11-days July 2016) had a base weight of 17 pounds. Yes that includes my panniers, a two-man tent, and a kitchen.

BUT: Living in a bivy, eating raw food day-after-day, without a change of clothes is not appealing to me, especially on a months long tour. I don't care how many extra miles I can cover by shedding a dozen pounds.

PLUS: It does seem to me that many bike-packers are at least partial credit-carders: sleeping in hotels, hostels, and couch-surfing AND eating in restaurants & peoples' homes. Nothing wrong with this touring-style but I tend to like: camping-out AND cooking my own hot food, and being prepared to take an extra day or two in the back-country.
As you point out you can have a tent, full sleeping pad, nice sleeping bag, a change of clothes and cooking equipment and still have a gear weight well under 20lbs. That gear can easily fit in a saddlebag and handlebar bag mounted to whatever bike you like be it a CF adventure/gravel bike or a steel tourer.
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Old 12-29-16, 03:19 PM
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I think the OP's point was a light tour can be done even on a CF race bicycle.
There's nothing magic or necessary about a steel bicycle for any style of touring.
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Old 12-29-16, 03:28 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Ah, welcome back BuffaloBuff! I couldnt figure out why the thread seemed so familiar until seeing this bike. The bragging, UL packing, and absurdly long back to back distances were all dejavu for a reason.

Well, at least your new online personality is less combative this time around. <---find the compliment in there if you want.
I thought he was banned. And if not banned, isn't there a rule against multiple user names?
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Old 01-01-17, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by BigAura
WELL: My list from my last tour (11-days July 2016) had a base weight of 17 pounds. Yes that includes my panniers, a two-man tent, and a kitchen.

BUT: Living in a bivy, eating raw food day-after-day, without a change of clothes is not appealing to me, especially on a months long tour. I don't care how many extra miles I can cover by shedding a dozen pounds.

PLUS: It does seem to me that many bike-packers are at least partial credit-carders: sleeping in hotels, hostels, and couch-surfing AND eating in restaurants & peoples' homes. Nothing wrong with this touring-style but I tend to like: camping-out AND cooking my own hot food, and being prepared to take an extra day or two in the back-country.
I don't live in a bivy, I hang out outside. I do that when I have a tent as well. My sleeping gear is for sleeping, nothing else.

I don't eat raw food every day. I always get warm food at some point.

I always have extra clothes as needed. In the winter I bring fewer clothes because I don't sweat much at all, in the summer I bring more. I never, ever cycle in funky clothes. That's how you get saddle sores.

I always camp on my tours.

I don't consider buying food to be credit card touring. I've never heard of anyone bringing all the food they need for their entire tour from day 1. Even if they did, there is no difference in my eyes between buying food with a credit card prior to leaving on a tour VS buying food when I stop for water with a credit card.

If its not for you that's fine, but why paint my style as something its not?

For me, bike touring is about riding a bicycle above all else, so I prioritize making that as enjoyable as I can. I'd rather bike another 20 miles than spend time in the morning lounging around in a tent cooking food. Nothing wrong with either approach, it just comes down to what you enjoy most as an individual.

Last edited by sexy cyclist; 01-01-17 at 09:43 AM.
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