cyccommute 

Or a sporting goods store. Or an outdoors store. Or a hardware store. Or, perhaps, hunting stores. And, as I said above, you can use other hydrocarbon fuels in a pinch that are even more widely available.

indyfabz

BTW...If absence of MSR-branded White Gas, you can substitute Coleman Fuel or Crown Camp Fuel. I have bought the latter in 32 oz. cans.


Liquid fuel is also handy for starting campfires. Just don't use too much. Singed some hair on one arm the first time I tried it.

cyccommute 

I'm not exactly sure what your point is here. I do know that this is about the dumbest thing anyone could do with any stove and I'm not sure why they would want to do it unless the point is to make the stove explode.

A person might be able to get themselves a Darwin award if they were really, really, really stupid but that's kind of the point of Darwin awards isn't it?

A windscreen is used only to protect the flame from wind blowing it around. It is completely unnecessary to protect the canister and, as you've pointed out, the manufacturers don't want you using them for that purpose.

In my experience, a wind screen is a completely useless item to carry anyway. Butane stoves don't blow out easily even in high winds and, if a wind screen is necessary to keep the heat concentrated around the pot, my body or a tree or even a large rock works just fine.

That assumes that two things. First that you have two canisters with you at all times and second that one of them is empty. As a general rule, I don't carry around empty canisters while bicycle touring. A much easier way to test the canister if you really feel the need to is to float the canister in a pot of water. A full canister floats lower in the water than an empty one. The beauty of this method is that you usually have the pot and you can get water. You don't need to lug around an empty fuel canister all the time.

As a general rule, it would be extremely difficult to explode a full canister unless you applied direct heat to the metal. The expansion of the gas makes the canister extremely cold. Doing something stupid like putting it in a can like above might cause enough of a build up of heat to rupture the canister but that would be...well...stupid.

Leaving the canister to burn might reach a point where the canister is empty enough to start heating but at some point there isn't enough fuel in the tank to maintain combustion so that the tank can't overheat. Burners that mount on the top of the can direct the heat away from the canister...the ol' hot air rising thing...so there is little chance they could overheat the canister whether it is full or empty.

A tabletop style canister stove like the MSR Windpro or Primus ETA Spider or Primus Omnifuel might be more prone to problems if you were to place the canister too close to the burner or down wind of the burner and the canister was close to empty. But the stars would have to align just right. It's not something that happens easily or even all the time.

One final thought on the MSR Windpro: I'm not sure that's a very good design and I would be very careful using it. Turning the can upside down like that increases the pressure of the fuel reaching the stove and would make it burn hotter because it delivers liquid isobutane to the venturi. I've never had a canister stove that burned too cool. And, with the hotter burn, the canister would need to be further away from the burner. Probably not their best effort.

bwgride

I've experimented with wood stoves and made one from a can. It seems to work well - it is pictured below.

I do not recommend wood stoves as the primary stove. Some drawbacks:

* One must collect fuel, and after a long day hiking or biking, one may not be interested in spending time finding fuel for the wood stove; same is true for morning use.
* Can be slower to reach water boiling point than comparable alcohol or canister stoves.
* Messy due to soot.
* Fuel can be unreliable, especially in damp areas.
* Have to constantly feed fuel to stove which is not an issue with alcohol and canister stoves.

If I carry a stove, which is rare now, I carry either alcohol or canister stoves since they both are so much more convenient that a wood stove. A wood stove would be carried only if I need a secondary stove due to concern for exhausting fuel for an alcohol or canister stove.

A better option, I think, is to add a metal handle to one's pot and hang it over an open fire if one wished to boil water with wood. I've added that type of handle to my pot (pictured on left - handle not pictured).

Carbonfiberboy 

"Back in the day," I carried neither stove nor pots. All I needed was 3-4 small rocks and twigs for a stove and back before Leave No Trace became the motto, I could always find a large tin can with a bail affixed lying around somewhere. When that didn't work anymore, I got a Svea 123. That's a great stove, but it has issues, particularly that one can't fly with it because of the wick. Now I use an Optimus Nova+, an excellent multifuel stove with a metal pump. I've put the stove through the dishwasher. It's been great. I hate canisters: purchasing, disposal, partials, all that stuff. Now that pump gas is all lead-free, it works fine in stoves though I use Coleman fuel on trips under 10 days. Mineral spirits works fine in it too, though it's a little stinky.

I wouldn't consider a wood stove for the reasons already given. Quick, clean, copious heat in any weather is what I want.

I've slept out at -50°F just fine and would never consider using a stove in an ordinary tent without the door being open. If you think it's too cold, you didn't bring the right gear.

fietsbob

But once the dry season summer High risk Fire season Kicks in, any open fires are VERBOTEN..


Teepees are Where the fires are built Inside ..

indyfabz

You turned me on to this stove (although I didn't get the + version). I really like it. It suits my cooking style (I do more than boil water and/or heat up canned food) just as well as my Dragonfly, but with maybe half the noise. It also packs flatter.

MixedRider

You just got a new Jet Boil and haven't used it yet?


I suggest you should go on a tour (carrying an extra canister as backup) and use it in real life. Determine what the shortcomings are for you. Sounds like you are already concerned about fuel availability before even determining what duration/burn time your stove can do on a canister.


For reference, I use the MSR whisperlite international. It uses an refillable canister and can run on diesel fuel if needed. But generally I just use the recommended white gas. In my notes from touring, I can tell you approximately how many times or hours I can use it before I am concerned about running low on fuel. And I have two different fuel canister sizes so I can carry what is needed for the tour length I am anticipating or time until fuel is more readily available to refill.

indyfabz

Yeah. I mentioned that early on as one of several issues with a wood burning stove.

AdvXtrm

Well, the more advanced "gasifying" ones are supposed to burn much cleaner, but overall I see you points there.

That Nova stove looks interesting.

Well, technically since the Jetboil hasn't even been opened yet, I cold still return it and get a different stove, so right now I'm learning what I can about different options before I do open and use it. The complexity and breakable parts with those pressurized fuel stoves are a bit concerning to me. I'd like something less complex and prone to wear and breakage. The thing about a wood burning gasifier, is that it call also work with an alcohol stove, or even solid fuel, so that's three great options in one system basically. More options and versatility sounds like a very good thing to me. Can't use wood for whatever reason? No problem, just use a few solid fuel tabs, or if not that, then pop your little alcohol stove in there and you're good to go. You could be out of or for some reason unable to use two out of the three possibilities, and still have no issue cooking. That's dependability that can't really be beat. And when you're out in a place off the beaten path a ways at night, with no stores to go fetch your canisters and/or fuels, or some part fails or is lost, you're still good to go.

I may end up keeping this Jetboil and just seeing how it goes, and picking up another stove type and try that out later on. The more I get to try and experience the more I'll learn, and like you basically said, there's no learning like actual experience. I've had a lot to learn over these past few months, since I knew nothing of serious bicycling let alone touring, and even camping period, but I have learned a whole lot, and my bike is about ready for a tour, and I've about got all my gear sorted. I'm super excited to get to do this, and very thankful that I even have the opportunity to do it.

Carbonfiberboy 

I appreciate the note. You're welcome!

Carbonfiberboy 

Jetboil notes: Almost every PCT thru-hiker carries one. The big plus is low fuel consumption. The big minus is that they're only good for heating water. Since thru-hikers carry all their own food, they mostly use freeze-dried or something that only needs to be soaked briefly in water which was boiled. They want low weight, low volume, and minimum time spent on food prep. They usually only carry 1 canister and know exactly where they'll get the next one. It's 10 liters boiled water per canister. If you can use their strategy, a Jetboil is just the thing.

Like everything else, try it some at home and see what it does. Even if you don't like it for all bike touring, I'd bet you'd always use it some.

Edit: the idea of a Jetboil is that you sit in the tent or in your sleeping bag and make coffee, breakfast, dinner, etc. if you're not being social.

trailangel

The canister stoves are extremely convenient, extremely reliable, and the canisters can be bought everywhere. Buy your wood/alcohol stove and try cooking on it when you are tired, cold, hungry, .... and report back here the experience.

wschruba

Just to play devil's advocate here, I timed how long it takes my Trangia (spirit) stove to self-prime.

@70 F, ~0:22 seconds.

After sitting full (worst case scenario for igniting in the cold), in the freezer, for 10 minutes, without pre-warming the stove in a pocket/igniting a small pan of alcohol, I placed it on the ground with an ambient temperature of 32 F in the air:

@32 F, ~1:22

Again, I did nothing to help it. simply placing the stove in an interior pocket of my jacket/fleece/whatever on my person would drastically cut the ignition time. There's no rule that says you can't start heating your pot/pan over it while it primes itself.

I fully support your admonition to try out whatever stove he buys, but I've never placed myself in a situation where (generously) 3-4 minutes starting the stove would kill me. You'd be equally screwed in a hypothermic situation with just about any stove, so I wouldn't bother to bring it up here...

I have found that the learning curve for using practically anything but wood is fairly easy...but even then, as you gain more experience starting/maintaining a fire, wood is no worse to work with, in my opinion.

There's a great site here that is, more or less, impartial to the different kinds of stoves. Chances are, if the OP decides to give the touring thing a real go, they will collect at least a couple different stoves, which is a common theme among outdoors enthusiasts. I like cooking on alcohol, for instance, but it's finicky when it starts getting really cold. My preference switches to using pressurized gas, then, but even an alcohol stove will still run on methanol at that point.

PedalingWalrus

There is nothing wrong with a wood stove. It works fine. Same with alcohol stove, pocket rocket or jet boil etc etc

Use your brain to determine if it will fit your trip logistics.

shipwreck

This is probably the main reason I do not usually use a wood stove. The labor intensive process of just getting water to boil is one thing, but the accuracy of cooking anything more complex than frying sausage is just to frustrating. I like omelettes, stir frys, simmering soups, rice or pasta, things that take more controlled flame. Try that in the dark, messing with damp wood.

In addition, even gasification stoves get things sooty. Buildup that gets all over everything. Add that to the issues of starting any fire in a no burn area. Most park rangers won't blink at a canister stove, but will can a little pissy about your smoky wood burner if there's a drought on.

I've used forced air wood burning stoves, passive gasification stoves, and even swiss army wood burners made out of aluminum(which I melted using my back up alcohol stove in). By far the best wood fire stove is just a hobo can. Church key some holes in the bottom of a large can, build a fire in it until it has at least two inches of coals, and then use those to cook. Cans are a lot harder to find these days though.

So add me to the canister or alcohol stove set. If you cannot find a canister right away when you run out, make a pop can stove and buy some heet. Can't find that or figure out how to burn alcohol in a can, then just eat cold food.

PedalingWalrus

Yeah, if you need to simmer then pocket rocket is the way to go.

Chuck Naill

Not so here. Nope, not on a stove designed for Coleman fuel. No use experimenting unnecessarily. The stoves are too expensive.

Wilfred Laurier

In my jurisdiction, even in high-risk fire season, open fire prohibitions are worded to allow 'small fires for cooking or warmth'.

Stoves are a contained fire and not generally covered under bans on open fires (AFAIK)

bikemig 

Agree that adventures in stoving is a great site for review of stoves. I'm surprised that there is so little love given here for the trangia. It's pretty much fool proof, fuel is easy to find, it works well in bad weather, and you can cook on it. On a road cycling trip, you can find food to cook; you don't need to rely on freeze dried food/boil water.

Doug64

Where is your "juristiction" located?

This has not been my experience. I would definitely check out the parameters of the fire closures before using any wood burning stove outside a designated campground.

You may be liable for fire suppression costs, and ignorance is not a defense.

alan s 

Snowpeak works great for me. Mostly hot water, and pasta or rice. The canister and burner fit in the pot, which saves a bit of space. This campground had food boxes which doubled as effective windscreens.

cyccommute 

You do know that liquid fuel stoves like the old Coleman Peak 1 were designed to burn more than one fuel don't you? The Peak 1 was designed to burn Coleman fuel (aka "white gas") as well as unleaded gasoline. Those are two very dissimilar fuels. About the only thing they have in common is that they are distilled from petroleum. The properties of the fuels are very different as is the composition. First and foremost, gasoline has a flashpoint that is more than 160°F lower than Coleman fuel. If the stove can burn gasoline, it can certainly burn mineral spirits which is a whole lot closer to Coleman fuel than gasoline is.

The stove isn't as delicate as you make it out to be.

indyfabz

In my experience, "chemical fuel" (i.e., white gas, butane, etc.,) stoves are o.k., but wood burning stoves are covered by a no open fires ban because of the embers danger. You don't have that with things like butane.

cyccommute 

That's basically what is "banned" here in Colorado during fire bans. If it doesn't have a shut-off valve, it's banned.