Originally Posted by saddlesores (Post 19328021)

last few builds have been pillar 2018 tribble-butted
2.0-1.8-2.0 with 2.2 at the elbow.
solid build, no problems....mikey like!

Originally Posted by AdvXtrm (Post 19329175)

What's the difference between non, double, and triple butted spokes?

Originally Posted by AdvXtrm (Post 19329175)

What's the difference between non, double, and triple butted spokes? Does butting make them lighter but weaker, or does it make them stronger, so the more butted the better?

Originally Posted by HTupolev (Post 19329368)

Straight-gauge spokes have the same thickness everywhere.

Double-butted spokes use the same thickness at the two ends, but are thinner in the middle.

Triple-butted spokes use three different thicknesses, typically being thickest at the head, thinner at the threaded end, and thinnest in the middle.


Because spokes usually fail on the ends, butting does allow weight savings with minimal compromises to durability.

However, the main advantage of butting is only visible when considering the wheel as a whole.

What's especially critical in wheelbuilding isn't so much that each spoke is strong, but that they distribute load well. To distribute load well, the spokes need to be sufficiently sprung. The more elastic the spoke, the less raw tension you need to get it sufficiently sprung. Thinner spokes are more elastic; by butting the spoke, you can make it more elastic without sacrificing strength on the ends.

Suppose you have a really lightweight rim that can't handle high spoke tension.
If you try to build it strong by using ultra-thick straight-guage spokes, you have a problem. Because they're not very elastic, sufficiently tensioning them to distribute load could hurt the rim, and you'd have a weaker wheel. On the other hand, undertensioning the thick spokes to avoid ripping the rim apart would result in lots of fatigue, since loads wouldn't be well-distributed; you'd ironically end up with a wheel that's really prone to stuff like spoke failure.
If you try to build the wheel using ultra-narrow spokes, things sort of look better. The spokes can be brought to appropriate tension without overstressing the rim. However, the spokes simply aren't very strong, so the wheel still isn't quite as awesome as it could be.
Butted spokes allow you to get the best of both worlds. A butted spoke that's thick on the ends would be more resilient than the thin spokes, and would also be able to be brought to proper tension on the lightweight rim.

Originally Posted by bradtx (Post 19329379)

-Non butted spokes have the same wire diameter for the entire length of the spoke.
-Double butted have the same wire diameter at the ends with a smaller diameter wire in the middle.
-Triple butted spokes have the largest diameter wire at the hub end, smallest diameter wire in the middle, and yet another wire diameter for the nipple.

Butting, to my understanding, allows the spoke to better transition from supporting the weight of the bicycle to the tension it was built to when not supporting the bicycle due to elasticity of the butted spoke. The (usually) 1.8 mm diameter of the center section of a DB spoke is plenty strong for touring purposes and is quite common although an argument can be made that a 1.8 mm non butted spoke isn't quite as strong as a 2.0 mm non butted spoke.

HTH,

Brad

PS HTupolev and I must have been typing an answer at nearly the same time, his is more detailed!

Originally Posted by edthesped (Post 19325625)

So what's your take on the Pillar spokes? I'm tempted to try their triple butted spokes from Bdop...