Boondocksaints

I'm a complete newb trying to build my first bike. I was wondering what you guy's opinions are regarding groupsets for a touring bike. Is it better using an MTB or road groupsets?

Or does it not matter that much?

dabac

There's touring and touring.
For Credit Card Touring and flat terrain, I'd be fine with a compact double, which makes a road groupset the obvious choice.
For CCT and hilly terrain I might manage with a (increasingly rare) road triple.
For pretty much any kind of loaded touring I'd prefer a MTB triple.
If it's all road, I might be inclined to try to find a crank with a 46 or even a 48 big.
Also depends on the wheel size I'd be using.
OTOH, if I had a decent 42/44 around, I might just as likely slap that on.
On 26" tires, even a 42 gets me to 25 MPH before spinning out.
I don't do many rides where a 25 mph max will hurt my average noticeably.
Particularly for touring I'd be perfectly fine with coasting out those precious minutes when gravity and tailwinds would allow me to ride faster than 25 mph.


Only issue I'd see if I'm riding with a partner/group who really enjoys staying on power during descents.


(When reading the above, do note that I like tightly spaced ratios, and is far more interested in what works for me than being seen with the latest.)

bradtx

When I built my touring bike the most suggested range for gearing was 20-100 GI (gear inches). While this works for loaded touring (40+ lb. of gear), it also works for lighter loads. While I use a mountain bike drive train (3X8) there are also sub compact double crank sets now available to achieve that range, just not as close ratio.

Brad

Squeezebox

It's almost always cheaper buying a complete bicycle, rather than building up from a bare frame. My personal opinion? I don't like triple cranks or bar ends, sloppy shifting. Yes to a 42 for the big chainring being enough. CCT means cross country tour. Right?

Tourist in MSN

Most touring bikes are a combination of the two.

I assume you are in North America. Generally people here use drop bars, not the more upright handlebars like on mountain bikes. Thus, brake levers, shifters, etc., that can be fitted to drop bars are needed and those are usually considered road bike components. But there are regional preferences, many in continental Europe prefer the flat bars that are more common on mountain bikes.

The touring drivetrain is usually more like a mountain bike with the lower gearing. And the additional weight on a touring bike usually means you want more robust brakes like those used on mountain bikes. I can't remember the last time I saw a touring bike with sidepull brakes like are common on road bikes.

Generally a road bike has a rear dropout spacing of 130mm, mountain bikes are usually 135mm. Touring usually is also 135mm. Thus, rear hubs from mountain bikes are usually used for touring bikes.

I am in the process of building up another touring bike. The brake levers and shifters are road bike. The front brake is mountain bike, the rear brake uses the cable pull ratio of a road bike but has the strength of a mountain bike brake. The crankset is road bike with an aftermarket lower gear on the triple. The rear hub, rear derailleur and cassette are mountain bike. The front hub is road bike. The rims are not really road or mountain, they have the strength needed for a tandem road bike but they are too narrow to fit the wider tires used on mountain bikes, so they are not really specific to either.

mstateglfr 

It matters a lot.
10 and 11sp road and mtb dont work together, so you will need to pick one or the other and they each have benefits and drawbacks.
Even the newest 9sp Sora now doesnt play well with 9sp MTB due to the new rear derailleur pull.




I like a 110bcd triple(call that what you want- road or mtb) mated to a 9sp drivetrain with a long cage rear derailleur shifting an 11-32 or 11-34 cassette.

Road triples have a granny which is too big, but can be swapped out. Also, the large ring is too big for me.
MTB triples have a middle ring size thats too small and I prefer to ride most of the time in the middle ring.

So a 110/74 bcd triple gives me lots of inexpensive ring options.
48/38/26 is what I have on there now. The 48 isnt used often, but it is used when riding unloaded(my touring bike is used for more than just loaded touring).
A 46/38/26 option would be nice too.

I have bar end shifters because I like the friction shifting front and allows a road triple front derailleur to work with a 110/74 bcd crank.





If you only like STI shifting, then set your bike up as a road triple and change the chainrings as needed. If you use older Tiagra or Sora STIs, then you could use an older 9sp MTB long cage rear derailleur and use a larger cassette than whats typically stock to help get some more range on the gearing.

gamecock

One word, "Phil."

Boondocksaints

Thanks for the info!

Doug64

Depending on the type of touring you want to do, it matters a lot.

You can use STI road shifters with MTB drivetrains. A lot depends on the FD. The 4503 Tiagra is one of the most versatile FDs made. It shifts very smoothly with MTB cranks once you get the correct chainline, shorter bottom bracket.

We have 6 touring bikes setup like this: Sugino 44/32/22 Crankset, Tiagra 4503 FD, Shimano LX RD, Tiagra STI shifters, and an 11-34 cassette. It works extremely well, and has proved itself over 50,000 miles. It is 9 spd. setup.

veganbikes

For my touring bike I prefer a nice mix of stuff since I am sticking with 9 speed for the time being. I use an XT RD with a CX-70/Ultegra Front Derailleur and Dura Ace downtube shifters on Gevenalle Audax levers. I run an 11-34 cassette w/ a Sugino Alpina 2 Triple crankset in 48/36/24. The reason I stick with 9 speed is it is generally easy enough to find in various different places and you can still find quality components for it. Plus it gives a good enough range with an 11-34 I don't feel like I am missing a whole lot of gears in between. Certainly 10 or 11 would be better for range but then you run into other potential issues.

Once you start going from 9 speed on up to 10 and 11 you get the problem of DynaSys which means you cannot run road and MTB together from Shimano however Wolf Tooth Components, Gevenalle, J-Tek, Microshift and others make various bits and bobs to make it cross compatible.

I would avoid road triples (not MTB or touring) as they present a higher gearing then one might want for loaded touring. Some MTB triples might be a little lower geared than you might want but you could potentially use one of the many gear calculators and find a lower gearing in your cassette to better match your crank.

manapua_man

You should probably tell us what kind of riding you plan on doing first. Personally I've got a few different bikes that I use for touring and each one is more ideal for different kinds of riding than the others.

bicyclridr4life

I'm in the process of upgrading my 1989 KHS 'MONTANA SUMMIT' mountain bike into an all-round on/off road tourer.
For gearing, I upgraded to a 7 speed rear with an 11/32 Sun Race freewheel. The front is a Bontrager triple with 22/32/44 rings. For my needs, the 44 is too big. A 36 or 38 tooth would be perfect. I will be pulling a 2 wheel 2 passenger kid trailer converted to a cargo trailer. Also, I don't need to go fast. 15 - 20 mph is fast enough.
Mountain bike components give you more options.

jefnvk

I'd say that 20MPH pulling a loaded trailer on flat ground is more than fast enough!

Boondocksaints

Ideally I want a do it all versatile bike, but most of the time it will be in the city - commuting, grocery shopping, leisure riding in the city, etc

But I want the option to go off road and to be able to carry panniers. Hybrids are too flimsy for my tastes.

However, an LHT type tourer might be too heavy for me, because I will be doing a lot of non-pannier city riding. Perhaps a light tourer? (credit card tourer sounds too flimsy though)

Boondocksaints

Also - I'd like to say you guys are a wealth of good information - so thank you from a newb.

manapua_man

Something set up similar to a cyclocross bike like the CAADX or just a regular road bike that can take racks/fenders with lower gearing would probably work fine for you. Unless you're planning on doing DH racing with it or launching the thing off ramps I wouldn't be too concerned about most bikes being flimsy. The frames can usually take a beating...the wheels maybe not so much.

mstateglfr 

Ok, so what exactly is 'flimsy'? Are you afraid the frame will flex under rider and pack weight?

I am 230# and have a near 30yo steel touring frame. I also have a modern gravel frame that could be used for touring. Neither flex under my weight to the point of having issues. They are comfortable and predictable.
The modern gravel frame, which is tubing that would be used for a typical 'light tourer', is quite comfortable and plenty stiff.

Boondocksaints

I currently have a Trek FX 7.2 (aluminum). I wouldn't trust it on too much off road and panniers.

Yours are steel. I want to build a steel touring bike.

manapua_man

One of my bikes is an old Specialized Allez (aluminum road bike) that can only take 23mm tires and I run that thing on dirt/gravel roads all the time. And I weigh in at about 220lbs. I'd be willing to bet that your bike would be fine as long as the wheels are done properly.

I wouldn't get too fixated on frame material either. geometry and things like tire/component choices usually make a much bigger difference in how well a bike rides.

dabac

I don't know if it's a established abbreviation. I used it to mean Credit Card Touring.

jefnvk

Why not? It seemingly even has mid-fork mounts for front racks.

Squeezebox

Easy to confuse the two.

djb

I have a friend who has this bike, it is perfectly fine as is for touring, aluminum frame and all. The stock crankset is a 48/38/28 or thereabouts, you could change the 28 to a smaller ring and that will make steep, loaded climbs easier, but you could tour on this bike as is.
It may even have front fork mid mounts to put on a lowrider front rack.
It probably has 32mm tires, fine as is, or you could put slightly wider, I'm sure that frame can take much wider.

IMO, spend your money on camping gear/panniers etc at least to see if you like touring.

mstateglfr 

Not trying to talk you out of doing what you envision, but I have a lot of experience with the 7.2 frame and genuinely dont understand why it cant be trusted and how it could be flimsy(i am guessing you think it is based on other comments in thread).

The 7.2 frame is identical to the 7.1 frame and I help maintain 30 7.1 bikes so I know that frame and fork all too well.
Its a basic aluminum frame with a hiten steel fork. There are rack and fender mounts on the frame as well as lowrider mounts on the steel fork. The frame and fork are extremely overbuilt and both can(and have) handled a ton of riding. These things are tanks on 2 wheels.
Add in the 445mm chainstays, room for 38mm tires or maybe wider, and relatively upright/relaxed geometry and you have the basic footprint for a great place to start with touring.

What exactly about the frame and fork is flimsy and cant be trusted?



This all assumes by 'off road' you mean rail trails/gravel roads/dirt forest trails. I didnt take that to mean aggressive technical singletrack.

djb

boondock, your perception of your bike is biased, its a perfectly good bike that as the previously fellow reinforces, has all kinds of good qualities going for it that lends it to you trying out touring with it as it is.
All you need are some reasonably good racks, reasonably good panniers, reasonably good camping stuff and you're off to the races, ready to have an enjoyable tiime.
If touring isn't your thing after trying it, thats fine, but do be assured that the bike is robust enough and geared fairly well for you to try out touring.

By all means buy a steel touring bike if you want to, there are all kinds of good touring bikes on the market--thats another topic you can get opinions on for which ones, but unless your bike has major issues with it, its a good solid bike.

Ultimately it comes down to budget and what you have/want to spend to try out touring--bike/gear and all that is involved with that.