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Miyata 1000 or Chinese LKLM 26" - What to buy?

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Miyata 1000 or Chinese LKLM 26" - What to buy?

Old 04-12-17, 09:42 AM
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Miyata 1000 or Chinese LKLM 26" - What to buy?

Hello everyone interested in touring. Im about to make an investment in a new bike for my first tour trough europe this summer. The tour will last about 5-7 weeks and I will be bringing camping and cooking gear. I am a total beginner but with some manic tendencies I have done quite a bit of research this weekend.

I live in Sweden and unfortunately the touring bike community is very limited here and so is the supply of touring bikes.

During my research and guided by my budget I have narrowed down my choices between 2 options.

The First option I got and was introduced to by a fellow swede I met in Bangkok who had biked there from southern Sweden and recommended the company which he had bought his bike, LKLM, a family company of passionate tourers building relatively cheap bikes.

After being in contact with them the bike purchase would be this frameset

with a these components:

Material:Reynolds 520 steel
Size:49、51、55、59(cm)
Transimission:1、FD-M590-3 speed SHIMANO front derailleur
2、FD-M590-9/27speed SHIMANO rear derailleur
3、SL-M590 SHIMANO derailleur lever
4、FC-590 443222T DEORE SHIMANO wheelchain and crank
5、CS-HG50-9 SHIMANO rear flywheel
Braking:BB7 disk brake
Cover tyre:LKLM customized cover tyre 26X1.75
Wheel set:LKLM double wall rim+13G stainless steel spoke
Handlebar:bend bar
Stem:3D forged fixed stem
Seat post:fixed post
Rear light:European standard rear light
Rack:LKLM classic stainless steel front rack+rear rack
Kickstand:stainless steel middle kickstand
Pedal:LKLM chromium-molybdenum steel axis bearing peadal
Saddle:SR saddle
Assembling:98%
Gross weight:about18kg
Net weight:about15kg

The total price for this with shipping (being ~1/3 of the cost) and 4 panniers lands me about 1000 $.


While I was waiting to confirm this buy an ad came up on the swedish version of CL on an vintage tourer which looked nice so I called on the ad. We came to the conclusion that the bike was not fit for my needs, but he told me he had something else that would suit me better.

He had a bike not put out on ad yet that was around 30 years old and considered by some people to be the best touring bike made in a factory. He told me some more specs I did not understand at that moment but that I could probably find some information online if I searched for Miyata 1000 and in the meantime he wold send me some pictures.

And the hype was real, there is alot of people on the internet talking good about this bike and the more I read the more I want to buy it.

He said he wanted around 1000$ for the Miyata and he knew it will be gone in 1 or 2 days when he puts up the ad for it. The man is in his 70's and said he had built and sold 100's of touring bikes and toured 25k miles himself and I kind of instantly trusted him over the phone. He said the bike is in great condition but maybe that I should take a clooser look at the wheels before heading out for a long trip.

But is a good idea? I dont have alot of skills doing repairs and dont want to spend alot of time and money finding odd parts. And to me the price seems to be quite high but the market is not exactly flooded with good bikes in Sweden and also I might have to pay for new wheels and also panniers.

So should I buy this classic bike or buy a cheaper new one? There is also an ad up for a Surly Disc trucker but its a couple hundred over my budget (1600 $), maybe I should work and save a bit more and get something similiar? But still I dont want to pay to much for my first trip, Im a student living of saved money this summer to make the trip.

So could I please get some input from the experienced crowd and guide me to a better decision.

Regards Oscar
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Old 04-12-17, 10:30 AM
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Quite a conundrum. I had a Miyata Six Ten (the "sport bike" version of the 1000) for a few years before I finally admitted that it was too large for me. I also had a Team Miyata. Both rode fabulously, and from what I read the 1000 rides the same. The think with Miyata is that their frames were fabulous. They built their own instead of buying from a supplier.

I would say a lot depends on what your future plans are for the bike. For this one tour either bike would be fine, although I think the 1000 will ride better (assuming all the components in good condition). If you like to tinker, and will have the funds to do so, the 1000 is upgradeable to modern components. Except for disc brakes, of course.

The Miyata is a better frame, hands down. Whether you go with it depends on whether you're ok with vintage components (cantilever brakes, friction shifting as opposed to indexed, downtube shifters, etc). If you go with the Miyata there are two alterations I would recommend. One would be to do away with the half-step gearing by installing a smaller middle chainring. The other would be to get barend shifters to replace the downtube shifters. You can use vintage--suntour barends are fabulous and can be had through ebay--or newer shimano with friction shifting. Oh, and I would take that silly foam off the bars and use bar tape.
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Old 04-12-17, 10:37 AM
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That LKLM looks pretty nice for $1000 complete with racks, fenders, kickstand, and panniers. What kind of panniers?

LKLM-KranGear: LKLM 318 Touring Bike Series
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Old 04-12-17, 10:41 AM
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Originally Posted by tyrion
That LKLM looks pretty nice for $1000 complete with racks, fenders, kickstand, and panniers. What kind of panniers?

LKLM-KranGear: LKLM 318 Touring Bike Series
+ 1. Buy the LKLM, good looking touring bike with panniers for $1k US is a good price.
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Old 04-12-17, 10:41 AM
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i bought an lklm (made in taiwan) frame a few months ago,
built up a touring bike. excellent deal for the money here, total
cost in china was under $500.

you're comparing 26" lklm to 700c miyata. lklm also comes in 700.

miyata's are good tourers, but 30 years old? what condition are
the components? what ARE the components? what is the rear
spacing? what is the maximum width tires you can fit? is the
rear hub freewheel or cassette? how many speedeses? do you
plan to stick with downtube shifters and cantilever brakes?
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Old 04-12-17, 11:05 AM
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That Miyata looks like the exact same bike as mine, and if I ever find another one I'll probably buy it - it is a fantastic ride.



That said, if I were about to undertake a major tour I would probably want a new frame. I know mine has some rust (considering I ride it in the winter that's probably not a surprise) and I'm not confident it would stand up to a fully loaded tour any more.
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Old 04-12-17, 12:49 PM
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The Miyata. Older Japanese bikes (Late 1970's - 1990) have easily replaceable and serviceable parts that can be found all over the world. Newer bikes tend to be more specific in their systems and the tools required to fix and adjust them.

I tour on a steel raleigh from 1985. It's a touring specific bike and is just great. Taking it on a muddy, puddle-y C&O Canal Towpath doubletrack was a little beyond its capabilities, but a good vintage road touring bike is the best thing for being on the pavement or any well maintained gravel path.
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Old 04-12-17, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by Standalone
The Miyata. Older Japanese bikes (Late 1970's - 1990) have easily replaceable and serviceable parts that can be found all over the world. Newer bikes tend to be more specific in their systems and the tools required to fix and adjust them.

I tour on a steel raleigh from 1985. It's a touring specific bike and is just great. Taking it on a muddy, puddle-y C&O Canal Towpath doubletrack was a little beyond its capabilities, but a good vintage road touring bike is the best thing for being on the pavement or any well maintained gravel path.
++

The LKLM looks like a city bike (very upright); not a long distance touring bike. I'd go with Miyata if I had to choose between the two.

The internal cable routing is a big turn OFF for me.

What are the road/paths/trails like on your planned tour? If they are all paved, the Miyata will be better. If they are not paved, and muddy or sandy, the 559 tires on the LKLM will be better - but I would equip it with wider tires - how wide can it fit?
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Old 04-12-17, 02:06 PM
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Originally Posted by revcp
Quite a conundrum. I had a Miyata Six Ten (the "sport bike" version of the 1000) for a few years before I finally admitted that it was too large for me. I also had a Team Miyata. Both rode fabulously, and from what I read the 1000 rides the same. The think with Miyata is that their frames were fabulous. They built their own instead of buying from a supplier.

I would say a lot depends on what your future plans are for the bike. For this one tour either bike would be fine, although I think the 1000 will ride better (assuming all the components in good condition). If you like to tinker, and will have the funds to do so, the 1000 is upgradeable to modern components. Except for disc brakes, of course.

The Miyata is a better frame, hands down. Whether you go with it depends on whether you're ok with vintage components (cantilever brakes, friction shifting as opposed to indexed, downtube shifters, etc). If you go with the Miyata there are two alterations I would recommend. One would be to do away with the half-step gearing by installing a smaller middle chainring. The other would be to get barend shifters to replace the downtube shifters. You can use vintage--suntour barends are fabulous and can be had through ebay--or newer shimano with friction shifting. Oh, and I would take that silly foam off the bars and use bar tape.

I want to make as little as possible due to time, budget and interest I want to be road ready as easy as possible. He says I can start riding it from picking it up so I guess everything is in good condition.

If I end up with the Miyata the foam will come off
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Old 04-12-17, 02:10 PM
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[QUOTE=tyrion;19506218]That LKLM looks pretty nice for $1000 complete with racks, fenders, kickstand, and panniers. What kind of panniers?

Yes indeed but its a bummer to pay almost 350$ for shipping which is quite heftym Id rather take that money and buy something locally, but there is not a big market. And also I want to make my decision soon due to delivery time..
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Old 04-12-17, 02:17 PM
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I got my mint condition perfectly sized vintage road tourer from Ebay for about $350 plus around maybe $50 shipping. Plus $200 for bags and I was good to go.

$1000 is a lot.
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Old 04-12-17, 02:19 PM
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Also, my first bike tour was in Europe. I had a summer to fill between volunteer work and studies, and bought a cheap heavy 10 speed in Belfast, Ireland. At a flea market! Must have been from around 1972.

I had to push it up some of the hills, but had a great ride!

Why not get there, find a good budget used bike, ride it, and sell it. You can even pre-arrange a bike to buy and maybe pre-arrange a sale! Travel virtually free!
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Old 04-12-17, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by saddlesores
i bought an lklm (made in taiwan) frame a few months ago,
built up a touring bike. excellent deal for the money here, total
cost in china was under $500.

you're comparing 26" lklm to 700c miyata. lklm also comes in 700.

miyata's are good tourers, but 30 years old? what condition are
the components? what ARE the components? what is the rear
spacing? what is the maximum width tires you can fit? is the
rear hub freewheel or cassette? how many speedeses? do you
plan to stick with downtube shifters and cantilever brakes?
Do you enjoy your bike? Are the standard components with the LKLM 520 any good? They only had the 26" in stock, which I probably would buy anyway. Yes thats the thing its an excellent bike for the money whay I understand buy I have to pay almost 400$ in shipping..

He said everything was in very good shape and Im not sure if it was original components. Will call him tomorrow and investigate a bit further now that I know more. I believe it can fit 35 tires under the fenders. And what I can tell there is 3x7 gears, he told me I could travel through the alps with the bike atleast, thats the reason the first bike would not fit, it did not have enough gears.
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Old 04-12-17, 02:32 PM
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Originally Posted by mercator
That Miyata looks like the exact same bike as mine, and if I ever find another one I'll probably buy it - it is a fantastic ride.

That said, if I were about to undertake a major tour I would probably want a new frame. I know mine has some rust (considering I ride it in the winter that's probably not a surprise) and I'm not confident it would stand up to a fully loaded tour any more.
Do you know which year yours is? I also want to be able to ride during winter, (we get those in Sweden). But the frame would be enough if it was in good condition? How much load could it handle you estimate?
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Old 04-12-17, 02:34 PM
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Originally Posted by Standalone
The Miyata. Older Japanese bikes (Late 1970's - 1990) have easily replaceable and serviceable parts that can be found all over the world. Newer bikes tend to be more specific in their systems and the tools required to fix and adjust them.

I tour on a steel raleigh from 1985. It's a touring specific bike and is just great. Taking it on a muddy, puddle-y C&O Canal Towpath doubletrack was a little beyond its capabilities, but a good vintage road touring bike is the best thing for being on the pavement or any well maintained gravel path.
Ok that nice to hear I would think otherwise. My idea is to ride the fine paved paths of europe but you never know where you end up
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Old 04-12-17, 02:37 PM
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Originally Posted by nfmisso
++

The LKLM looks like a city bike (very upright); not a long distance touring bike. I'd go with Miyata if I had to choose between the two.

The internal cable routing is a big turn OFF for me.

What are the road/paths/trails like on your planned tour? If they are all paved, the Miyata will be better. If they are not paved, and muddy or sandy, the 559 tires on the LKLM will be better - but I would equip it with wider tires - how wide can it fit?
Alot of the modern tourers seems to be very upright. I will ride on nice ashpalt in Europe but you never know if you end up on some dirt road. Im not sure how wide it can fit.
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Old 04-12-17, 02:41 PM
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Originally Posted by Standalone
I got my mint condition perfectly sized vintage road tourer from Ebay for about $350 plus around maybe $50 shipping. Plus $200 for bags and I was good to go.

$1000 is a lot.

Originally Posted by Standalone
Also, my first bike tour was in Europe. I had a summer to fill between volunteer work and studies, and bought a cheap heavy 10 speed in Belfast, Ireland. At a flea market! Must have been from around 1972.

I had to push it up some of the hills, but had a great ride!

Why not get there, find a good budget used bike, ride it, and sell it. You can even pre-arrange a bike to buy and maybe pre-arrange a sale! Travel virtually free!
Yes I know that the price is high but the market here for touring bikes is kind of off, there is barely no bikes to buy and its still going to be my cheapest option because I want a proper bike suited for touring many years to come. Im that kind of guy who wants the good and right stuff intentionally made for that purpose.

That sounds like fun times with adventure but the thing is I want to ride my bike packed from my home in Sweden and go straight for my destination in Hungary
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Old 04-12-17, 02:41 PM
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Do you want drop bars or a flat bar?

Those are 2 very different setup bikes. The 1000 would take some adjusting/updating(chainrings, tires, wheel work, and more) but that is a fantastic looking bike.
The modern wont need the adjustments(i would hope at least!).
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Old 04-12-17, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by OG_SWE
Do you know which year yours is? I also want to be able to ride during winter, (we get those in Sweden). But the frame would be enough if it was in good condition? How much load could it handle you estimate?
I'm pretty sure it's 1989
I've done some loaded touring on it, with about 60 lbs of gear spread between front and rear panniers. It's a great riding bike, but I wouldn't describe it as stiff. The last time I rebuilt it, I found considerable rust in the bottom bracket area.

So my bike is not tour ready. If the one you are looking at is in good shape, I'm sure it would be fine.
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Old 04-12-17, 02:46 PM
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Originally Posted by OG_SWE
My idea is to ride the fine paved paths of europe but you never know where you end up
Originally Posted by OG_SWE
I will ride on nice ashpalt in Europe but you never know if you end up on some dirt road. Im not sure how wide it can fit.
I've got the little brother to the 1000, the 610. It handled everything we came across in Belgium and the Netherlands just fine. Unless you are really planning on being off road for extended periods of time I wouldn't worry about it. The bike likely came with 27" wheels, meaning you have room for wider tires (at the minimum, 32mm, likely somewhere in the 35-38 range). May also be worth asking if it has been converted to 700 (I suspect so, if it is 7 speed).

Can't speak to value, to me both seem high, but I don't know the Swedish market! If you can afford it and it makes you happy, that is all that matters
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Old 04-12-17, 03:00 PM
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I've done some loaded touring on it, with about 60 lbs of gear spread between front and rear panniers. It's a great riding bike, but I wouldn't describe it as stiff. The last time I rebuilt it, I found considerable rust in the bottom bracket area.

So my bike is not tour ready. If the one you are looking at is in good shape, I'm sure it would be fine.[/QUOTE]

I will ask for serial number tomorrow but I believe it looks more like the if not the stickers has been replaced.

Ok that sound pretty heavy to me, I wont be carrying more than 40 lbs
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Old 04-12-17, 03:02 PM
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Originally Posted by jefnvk
I've got the little brother to the 1000, the 610. It handled everything we came across in Belgium and the Netherlands just fine. Unless you are really planning on being off road for extended periods of time I wouldn't worry about it. The bike likely came with 27" wheels, meaning you have room for wider tires (at the minimum, 32mm, likely somewhere in the 35-38 range). May also be worth asking if it has been converted to 700 (I suspect so, if it is 7 speed).

Can't speak to value, to me both seem high, but I don't know the Swedish market! If you can afford it and it makes you happy, that is all that matters
I will go and see if it fits first and foremost. This is probably one of the only bikes I can afford
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Old 04-12-17, 06:49 PM
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Originally Posted by OG_SWE
Yes I know that the price is high but the market here for touring bikes is kind of off, there is barely no bikes to buy and its still going to be my cheapest option because I want a proper bike suited for touring many years to come. Im that kind of guy who wants the good and right stuff intentionally made for that purpose.

That sounds like fun times with adventure but the thing is I want to ride my bike packed from my home in Sweden and go straight for my destination in Hungary
The Miyata will make it to Hungary. Repair parts will be available anywhere (perhaps with a brief wait) and generally fixable with simple wrenches, hex keys, and screwdrivers. The new one may not make it, as it looks like the kind of bike that likely has cost-cutting measures like cheap parts of cheap metal that may bend. Probably not as cheap as the department store bikes here (we call these stores "big box" retailers). The Miyata is a handcrafted fine Japanese bicycle manufactured at a time when touring bicycles were considered the top of the line from a manufacturer.

One option is to get any quality steel road bike with a geometry that is halfway between touring and race. The fatter tires, the better. These used to be called sport tourers. Make sure it has a triple up front (three chainrings) and it will do well as a tourer.

Then outfit with bags similar to backpacking bags -- look up backpacking and see how they do not need racks. Invest in lightweight tour gear -- a good bag, a ultra lightweight tarp tent, etc.

That way your money goes into good light comfortable camping gear, and you wind up with a faster bike that still has a long enough wheelbase to tour on.

Or.... just get that Miyata! One good upgrade from the down tube shifters would be some Retroshift brakes from Gevenelle. https://gevenalle.com/shifters/ order without shifters, and add friction shifters. That way you have control from the tops of the brakes and won't fatigue yourself constantly reaching down to the DT shifters for thousands of miles. (though that's what I do! Getting a little old for that, and will upgrade.)

Good luck!
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Old 04-12-17, 06:53 PM
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Originally Posted by jefnvk
I've got the little brother to the 1000, the 610. It handled everything we came across in Belgium and the Netherlands just fine. Unless you are really planning on being off road for extended periods of time I wouldn't worry about it. The bike likely came with 27" wheels, meaning you have room for wider tires (at the minimum, 32mm, likely somewhere in the 35-38 range). May also be worth asking if it has been converted to 700 (I suspect so, if it is 7 speed).

Can't speak to value, to me both seem high, but I don't know the Swedish market! If you can afford it and it makes you happy, that is all that matters
Hey folks -- remember, it's often very hard to switch cantilever brake frames from 27" to 700c. I would recommend to any newer rider that they retain the original wheel size. No regular road touring truly needs anything over 28 mm tires, especially if, as the poster says, the rider is packing relatively light, less than 40 pounds.

My DC to Pittsburgh run was largely on muddy doubletrack. The mud puddles were a bit much for the rig, but road, dry doubletrack, and packed gravel were FINE on road tires. Fully loaded.
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Old 04-12-17, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by Standalone
Hey folks -- remember, it's often very hard to switch cantilever brake frames from 27" to 700c. I would recommend to any newer rider that they retain the original wheel size. No regular road touring truly needs anything over 28 mm tires, especially if, as the poster says, the rider is packing relatively light, less than 40 pounds.

My DC to Pittsburgh run was largely on muddy doubletrack. The mud puddles were a bit much for the rig, but road, dry doubletrack, and packed gravel were FINE on road tires. Fully loaded.
If the 1000 is 1984 or newer, and it appears to be, 700c wheels were stock.
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