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Touring bike for every day?

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Touring bike for every day?

Old 04-20-17, 10:01 AM
  #26  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
And, finally, if steel is so wonderful, why has everyone and his bother moved away from steel mountain bikes? Even in the days before front suspension, there were a lot of manufacturers moving in that direction.
I'm sure it's because of cost. Aluminum is a cheaper material, but more importantly, the frames are made by robots, so the process of making them is cheaper.

I'm not for or against either material. They're both good for bikes.
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Old 04-20-17, 11:34 AM
  #27  
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I think if you try for a do it all, you'll end up with too many compromises. I won't be the perfect bicyle for road, touring, or anything else. just kinda okay at all of it.
After Al is heat treated is really cheaper. more expensive to weld. There's plenty of cheap steel being used.
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Old 04-20-17, 12:05 PM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
I'm sure it's because of cost. Aluminum is a cheaper material, but more importantly, the frames are made by robots, so the process of making them is cheaper.

I'm not for or against either material. They're both good for bikes.
It's weight and the ability to do more with the frame designwise. And also seeing CF MTBs more and more. The shock absorption on an MTB is in the tires, fork and rear suspension, if any, so a steel frame is not beneficial.
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Old 04-20-17, 08:18 PM
  #29  
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I have only owned three bicycles during the past 40 years: one "sport" touring bike (1979 - 1985), and two "classic" touring bikes (1985 - present; and 2004 - present). So I may have a touring-centric bias!

I actually don't tour much. I use my touring bikes mostly for commuting and running errands (which includes hauling heavy loads of groceries). I can't imagine a more versatile type of bicycle. Over the years, I have used touring bikes to traverse rough roads, climb mountain passes, bomb down hills too fast, travel across big cities, go sight seeing, meander along country roads, exercise, and so on.

About the only thing I won't do on a touring bike is ride on sand. The tires don't have the grip. I don't enjoy riding on gravel, but I do it, carefully, when necessary.

No bike does everything well, but for my style of riding, touring bikes come close to being universal.
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Old 04-20-17, 09:40 PM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by john_mct View Post
Since when are aluminum frames more comfortable over bumps? Sensible thing would be a more compliant (read not overbuilt for load hauling) higher quality steel frame and more supple tires. Enter the raft of high quality ADV/gravel bikes that have hit the market in the last few years...try taking a ride on an all city nature boy with quality 853 tubing, a decent wheelset, and some nice supple 35c tires and nobody in their right mind would lump it in with the harsh riding ALU frame crappy forked hybrids of the last 15 years. Personally, I don't really get kicks out of rocky technical single track, but would rather crank out long days on mixed terrain and buff single track on a comfortable and quick gravel bike. The fact that I can load it up and ride cross country on the same bike is a definite bonus.
Nature Boy 853 looks pretty cool but I'm looking for the Cadillac-smooth ride that only suspension can provide.

I have a (free) Trek hybrid with alu frame & susp post & fork. The suspension bits are lower-quality but ride is much comfier than LHT. LHT with suspension fork would obviate need for current long fork rake so handling would be quicker & safer; on the road one could use light tires.

BTW if one has a fairly expensive bike for touring, it's handy to have a cheapo bike for local errands where security is not good.
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Old 04-21-17, 01:17 PM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by noglider View Post
I'm sure it's because of cost. Aluminum is a cheaper material, but more importantly, the frames are made by robots, so the process of making them is cheaper.

I'm not for or against either material. They're both good for bikes.
I think it's just marketing. Compared to the old "gas pipe" steel MTBs, aluminum is lighter. So, you want a lighter bike? Get this one, it's aluminum. Never mind that a modern steel alloy frame can match, or even beat, the aluminum frame.

Sometimes I think consumers as a whole are sheep, being herded by another group of sheep called "marketers."
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Old 04-21-17, 05:42 PM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
I think it's just marketing. Compared to the old "gas pipe" steel MTBs, aluminum is lighter. So, you want a lighter bike? Get this one, it's aluminum. Never mind that a modern steel alloy frame can match, or even beat, the aluminum frame.

Sometimes I think consumers as a whole are sheep, being herded by another group of sheep called "marketers."
Low weight is a selling point, and it can be a legitimate one. Whatever material it takes to make it lighter is what sells. If a steel bike could be lighter than an aluminum bike at the same price point, they'd be selling them. Saying, "Hey it's aluminum therefore it's lighter" doesn't make sense, and it doesn't sell bikes except maybe at Walmart. There, they have aluminum bikes that are immensely heavy.
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Old 04-21-17, 09:04 PM
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Squeezebox View Post
I think if you try for a do it all, you'll end up with too many compromises. I won't be the perfect bicyle for road, touring, or anything else. just kinda okay at all of it.
After Al is heat treated is really cheaper. more expensive to weld. There's plenty of cheap steel being used.
A LOT of people are very happy with a bicycle that can do a bit of everything moderately. that's why steel or aluminium MTB (non-suspended) bicycles are so popular around here. The people who want to ride them a fair bit put narrow smooth tires on them for that and then switch to their wider knobby tires for the loose gravel, mud or snow. If i had to keep only one bike it'd be one of my non-suspended steel frame MTBs from the mid-1980s to early 1990s. Heck, go to a bicycling co-op and get another stem (if needed and drop bars and drop bar brake levers and an MTB can be converted into a very decent touring bike. Or a local bike shop might have what you want in their scap/used parts bin.I travel many fire/logging/mining roads in Northern Ontario Canada for two weeks at a time totally self supported on just such converted MTBs. I also ride a lot of trails around here that have some steep climbs, lots of exposed rocks and exposed roots on the trails and I do this very enjoyably on my steel frame non-suspended MTB.

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Old 04-21-17, 09:09 PM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
I think it's just marketing. Compared to the old "gas pipe" steel MTBs, aluminum is lighter. So, you want a lighter bike? Get this one, it's aluminum. Never mind that a modern steel alloy frame can match, or even beat, the aluminum frame.

Sometimes I think consumers as a whole are sheep, being herded by another group of sheep called "marketers."
I often wonder just how much lighter and aluminium MTB is over a steel mtb when all the other stuff such as rider and gear is tallied up. That's percentage wise I mean.

I see an aluminium frame that is lighter than my steel frame but then when you add on the weight of the sprung shock fork on the aluminium bike compared to the steel rigid fork on my steel MTB the weight difference between the two bikes isn't that much at all.

The biggest problem these days is getting a decent replacemet front derailler with a 28.6mm clamp WITHOUT having to shim a 31.?mm derailler. I'm okay for my bikes becau8se I stocked up on the 28.6mm clamp size when I saw that them becoming rarer on new bikes.

Cheers
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Old 04-22-17, 07:12 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
...Never mind that a modern steel alloy frame can match, or even beat, the aluminum frame.
Interesting, I've never seen this claim before. Can you be specific with actual frames and their weights?

If that's the case, I wonder why they make rims out of Al instead of lightweight steel....
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Old 04-22-17, 07:17 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
I often wonder just how much lighter and aluminium MTB is over a steel mtb when all the other stuff such as rider and gear is tallied up. That's percentage wise I mean....
I had a misfit 19" AL frame and a Vassago 20" steel frame, the Al misfit was ~1lb lighter. Just frames, no forks.
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Old 04-22-17, 07:52 AM
  #37  
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Alum rims have better braking than the old steel
The percentage of wt difference is meaningless.
It's 5 lbs whether it's 55 vs 50 lb or 20 vs 15. It's 5 lbs up those hills no matter the percentage.
Stupid light can have effects strength and durability. Be reasonable in "as light as reasonable"
Same reasonable for heavy.
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Old 04-22-17, 08:02 AM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Miele Man View Post
I often wonder just how much lighter and aluminium MTB is over a steel mtb when all the other stuff such as rider and gear is tallied up. That's percentage wise I mean....

assuming both bikes are built the same...components, wheels, tires, baggage,
and are essentially the same size and configuration......the actual difference in
frame weight should be about a pound. (same forks, not comparing one bike
with a rigid fork to one with a heavy suspension fork)...

traveling ultrasuperlight the one pound difference will make more of a, umm,
difference. might even be noticeable, or might not.

heavier touring, one pound prolly wouldn't matter at all.

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Old 04-22-17, 09:19 AM
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Mr IGH View Post
Interesting, I've never seen this claim before. Can you be specific with actual frames and their weights?

If that's the case, I wonder why they make rims out of Al instead of lightweight steel....
Nobody that I know of makes exactly the same frame with aluminum and steel, so no, what you're asking for is impossible. A couple of links on general frame materials, though:
https://www.missionbicycle.com/blog/...el-vs-aluminum - under strength vs. weight, paragraph 2.
Custom bicycles, steel frames can be lighter than carbon frames - OK, they're comparing to carbon fiber

You must not remember steel rims. They were great, stout and strong; until the moment they lost all braking power when the weatherman said "Rain this afternoon." Frankly, the old rims were scary when they were the least bit damp. Aluminum rims need a lot more water on them to lose braking power, so you have the chance to squeeze water off the rims (or aluminum disc) and then brake within a revolution or two of the wheel.
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Old 04-22-17, 09:52 AM
  #40  
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The very first AL frames looked like level TT steel bikes. Now it's mostly ridiculously sloped and likely chopped, not that steel is any diff. Only Roadsters for me now. My finicky derailler AL susp hybrid is now sold and good riddance. One day, for just a silly test, I made a cardboard frame box and filled it with 9 lbs of canned food. It rode like a Sherman tank. WTH My tour/ roadsters wouldn't notice the diff.

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Old 04-22-17, 02:02 PM
  #41  
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@Piratebike, From my perspective a touring bike is a fine alll around bike, but if one is unlikely to ever go bicycle touring, the hybrid is just as good of a choice.

Brad
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Old 04-22-17, 02:03 PM
  #42  
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It's 2017 and there's very few making high-end AL bikes. Current fashion says the market will buy high-end carbon & steel not AL. Even Cannondale has essentially conceded. It's not 1990 any more.
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Old 04-22-17, 03:04 PM
  #43  
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Originally Posted by BigAura View Post
It's 2017 and there's very few making high-end AL bikes. Current fashion says the market will buy high-end carbon & steel not AL. Even Cannondale has essentially conceded. It's not 1990 any more.
It's not 1990 anymore?? So if I ride my Alum bicycle real real fast can I get back to 1990?
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Old 04-22-17, 03:52 PM
  #44  
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Kind of random but on topic. Since the good all around bike is being tossed out there, has anyone checked out the Jamis Renegade series. They have 5 different versions but the one I've been eyeing is the Renegade Elite. It's priced a little high but overall capabilities are there to be that good all around bike out the box. For touring you might switch out the rear cog but it handles most terrain well, outside of true MTB territory.

renegadeseries
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Old 04-22-17, 03:55 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Squeezebox View Post
It's not 1990 anymore?? So if I ride my Alum bicycle real real fast can I get back to 1990?
88mph
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Old 04-22-17, 08:15 PM
  #46  
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My old Cannondale T-400 frame felt a lot lighter (guessing 1-2 lbs) than current Disc Trucker. OTOH I see that LBS lower-end alu road bikes are about 10 kg/22 lbs which is only about 1 lb lighter than old 531 steel Peugeot PX-10. Well, all things being equal, why not save that 1 lb, which would make up for added weight of suspension fork? It's a bit surprising there's so little attention to susp forks on touring bikes. Paris-Roubaix pros successfully used relatively primitive susp forks. Last week went for a long ride thru DC & streets are still terrible, even semi-cushy Disc Trucker bounced around a lot. Also would be interesting to see CF touring forks with fender/rack eyelets, CF is supposed to be good at damping shock.
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Old 04-23-17, 12:18 AM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by DropBarFan View Post
My old Cannondale T-400 frame felt a lot lighter (guessing 1-2 lbs) than current Disc Trucker. OTOH I see that LBS lower-end alu road bikes are about 10 kg/22 lbs which is only about 1 lb lighter than old 531 steel Peugeot PX-10. Well, all things being equal, why not save that 1 lb, which would make up for added weight of suspension fork? It's a bit surprising there's so little attention to susp forks on touring bikes. Paris-Roubaix pros successfully used relatively primitive susp forks. Last week went for a long ride thru DC & streets are still terrible, even semi-cushy Disc Trucker bounced around a lot. Also would be interesting to see CF touring forks with fender/rack eyelets, CF is supposed to be good at damping shock.
Check out Lauf forks...they now make a version for gravel/adv bikes that would probably be suitable for touring...although I'm not sure I'd trust carbon leaf springs if I were way out there. Pricey and kinda ugly but I've read nothing but positive things.
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Old 04-23-17, 03:44 AM
  #48  
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Originally Posted by bradtx View Post
@Piratebike, From my perspective a touring bike is a fine alll around bike, but if one is unlikely to ever go bicycle touring, the hybrid is just as good of a choice.

Brad
My very first bike tour was on a hybrid, with a steel frame. I bought it ostensibly as a commuter after I sold my heap of a car and in the recovery process from what was diagnosed as a heart attack at the time. That was when I started over a decade of living free of car ownership.

That bike went lots of places until it was stolen. Then I replaced it with a large-frame steel, aged MTB. I didn't tour on that, but did on its steel-framed MTB successor, complete with front suspension.

My first "real" bike, though, was a Fuji Touring, that did just about everything -- commuting, randonneuring, lots of touring, errands towing a trailer, fitness training. Its flaw, as I eventually found, was the fork configuration; I won't go into detail, but I replaced the original with a Surly one and that made one hell of a difference.

I kept the Fuji, but now also have a Thorn Club that I would have not hesitation in using as I did the Fuji. Even randonnees.

I have other bikes that are less suited to the all-round role, but some could do be adapted. My Ti bike has been set up for randonnees and fast training. My CF bike is a fun fast bike. My Bike Friday, while suitable for MTB-style riding, is set up more for road and touring, and would come close to being an all-round bike... if I needed it. Likewise my fixed gear, which was based on an old Shogun road bike that was eminently suitable as an all-rounder. And there's an aluminium MTB which is for MTB-ing, but could be adapted to all-round work if needed.
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Old 04-23-17, 05:08 AM
  #49  
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I can see why folks pick a touring bike as an only bike, but these days my touring bike collects dust hanging in the shed even when I am on tour. As I started packing lighter and lighter I abandoned it for touring and I never did use it for anything else. Personally I don't care all that much for the more truck like handling of a touring bike, so I tend to ride something sportier when possible.

If I had to pick one bike as an only bike right now I guess it would be my mountain bike, since I trail ride pretty much every day. I would miss my road bike pretty badly though.

I might also consider an adventure bike, but I have never owned one so I really don't know how I feel about them.

The good news is that I don't have to choose. I can trail ride on my MTB, road ride on my new road bike or my older road bike, run errands on my older (1990 rigid) MTB, and tour on which ever one suits the particular tour.
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Old 04-23-17, 06:53 AM
  #50  
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I looked at the Jamis Renegade because someone above told me to. Low gear about 30 instead of 20. So an adventure instead of a full on touring. But something like that would work well. A carbon fork with eyelets is hard to find.
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