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Carbon touring?

Old 05-12-17, 02:20 AM
  #1  
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Carbon touring?

So let's discuss how to successfully do carbon bicycle stuff in a touring environment.
This is strictly a pro-carbon thread. (Anti is a different thread.)

What this thread is NOT about:
If you think carbon assplodes, please stay out.
This is not about your opinion of the superior qualities of steel.
It's not about your budget, or anyone else's. travel expense vs/ carbon.
If you have any other negative attitude about carbon please stay out.

It IS about :
Carbon forks with eyelets for front racks and/or fenders.
rear eyelets for rear racks and/or fenders
Carbon bits and pieces, cranks, wheels, hubs, etc.
Frame builders
Durability
Clamping onto carbon
Electronic shifting to make a carbon triple work well.
Anything else to make carbon work in a touring environment.

Please keep any negative opinions to yourself. Or use the "I hate carbon" thread.
Let's be peaceful !!

Last edited by Squeezebox; 05-12-17 at 02:38 AM.
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Old 05-12-17, 02:40 AM
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The New 2017 Diamondback Haanjo EXP Carbon Touring Bike - CyclingAbout

https://www.diamondback.com/haanjo-exp-carbon

https://www.bicycling.com/bikes-gear/...njo-exp-carbon
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Old 05-12-17, 03:23 AM
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If I had the cash for an awesome carbon bike it would be the Salsa Cutthroat. Take it touring (rear rack compatible, front anything cage mounts, backpacking bags), unload it and throw on 29x2.4s to rip up trails, cover gravel quickly with some nice gravel tires. It was built to conquer the Tour Divide so I think it will stand up to touring just about anywhere.

Close second would be the Jamis Renegade Elite, but it is even more expensive and doesn't have the same tire clearance.
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Old 05-12-17, 04:21 AM
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I would love to tour on carbon, but the expense has kept it from happening so far. I have toured with a carbon fork on an aluminum frame and my next tour may be on a bike with carbon fork and stays. Rather than worry about a front rack I have a bar roll on the bike with the carbon fork. I also hung a small camera bag over the bar roll. Alternately I just used a big-ish handlebar bag.

I tend to carry a fairly minimalist gear setup so packing stuff on the bike is less challenging given that there just isn't all that much stuff.

I see two likely options for touring on carbon. Option one - tour on a road bike with minimal gear. Try to find a more heavy duty carbon touring bike to tour on. I am not sure what is available in a "real" touring bike made from CF, but there certainly is no reason carbon wouldn't make a fine heavy touring bike if it was designed for the task.
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Old 05-12-17, 06:26 AM
  #5  
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I avoid clamping to carbon. I use aluminium handle bars and seat posts so I never have any worries. It's not necessary to have eyelets or to clamp to the frame if you use bags that don't need racks. Once you eliminate the need for eyelets then you can choose from lots of off the shelf carbon bikes and you can adjust the components if you want to make your perfect carbon touring bike. The emergence of gravel/adventure/endurance bikes with wide tire clearances and wide gearing gives lots of options. Here's my current favorite carbon bike for touring.

https://salsacycles.com/bikes/warbird

and this isn't bad either

https://www.raleighusa.com/roker-sport-1965

Last edited by nun; 05-12-17 at 06:31 AM.
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Old 05-12-17, 06:33 AM
  #6  
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I would replace my steel-tourer, assuming identical function

I'd love to see a purpose-built carbon-tourer that was a direct replacement for my steel-tourer. My current-tourer is a heavy-steel lunk weighing in at a little over 8 pounds for frame/fork/S&S-couplers. I'm quite sure a carbon replacement would come in weighing considerably less. Weight is always a factor when touring, but not the ultimate deciding factor. Function is the deciding factor. I don't race so heavier just means I go slower. At 64 years old I can still pedal (albeit slowly) a rather heavy touring bike on the majority of paved road surfaces in the world without resorting to pushing, when equipped with modern mountain-gearing.

Bottom line is I'd be willing (realizing carbon is more costly) to pay $250/lb in weight savings assuming identical function-performance from a carbon fiber frame.
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Old 05-12-17, 07:54 AM
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Serious question: do those who tour on carbon add a torque wrench to their toolkit?
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Old 05-12-17, 08:58 AM
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As mentioned, the Diamondback Haanjo EXP Carbon is a carbon touring bike with a ton of versatility.

- 3x bottle cage mounts
- front and rear rack mounts
- bar end shifters for simple shifting
- 3x9 drivetrain with a quality 48/36/26 crank paired to an 11-34 cassette
- quality mechanical disc brakes with thruaxles
- stock wide 2.1" tires for off pavement touring, ability to slap 700c road touring wheelset and tires on


Really solid build right out of the box. And its $1600 delivered to your house with the free corporate discount.
Whats not to love?(heh, except those simple and reliable bar end shifters for some)
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Old 05-12-17, 09:11 AM
  #9  
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Ride What ever floats your boat.

Here on the Oregon West Coast we see all sorts of bikes being used to tour the Pacific Coast ,

Or either start or end their transcontinental tour from Here..

the shipped in bikes labeled 'please Assemble' are already arriving..





....
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Old 05-12-17, 10:38 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
As mentioned, the Diamondback Haanjo EXP Carbon is a carbon touring bike with a ton of versatility.

- 3x bottle cage mounts
- front and rear rack mounts
- bar end shifters for simple shifting
- 3x9 drivetrain with a quality 48/36/26 crank paired to an 11-34 cassette
- quality mechanical disc brakes with thruaxles
- stock wide 2.1" tires for off pavement touring, ability to slap 700c road touring wheelset and tires on


Really solid build right out of the box. And its $1600 delivered to your house with the free corporate discount.
Whats not to love?(heh, except those simple and reliable bar end shifters for some)
That does look like a nice bikepacker.
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Old 05-12-17, 11:28 AM
  #11  
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I have thousands of miles on my Haanjo EXP. It is my favorite bike to ride. I've yet to go loaded touring on it, but often haul my 20 pound dog on a rear rack, and groceries on front panniers. It is fun on pavement, and single track trails. I will do a week long camping trip (with the dog) this spring. I enjoy my Disc Trucker too, but the Haanjo is much lighter and quicker, while still feeling very solid. My Domane feels almost flimsy by comparison. I'm 6'3" and 200 pounds, by the way.
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Old 05-12-17, 12:07 PM
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Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
Serious question: do those who tour on carbon add a torque wrench to their toolkit?
If someone would make a touring specific carbon bike, I wonder if it would be feasible to make it so that you only need a single preset torque wrench. All the critical fasteners on the frame would take the same amount of torque. Then they could sell a lightweight carbon torque wrench too.
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Old 05-12-17, 12:23 PM
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One of the things limiting this category....carbon fiber front forks with eyelets for racks. Especially with the move to disc brakes and tapered steers things get complicated quick.
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Old 05-12-17, 12:26 PM
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430mm on the Diamondback chainstays. Is that long enough?
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Old 05-12-17, 12:29 PM
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
One of the things limiting this category....carbon fiber front forks with eyelets for racks. Especially with the move to disc brakes and tapered steers things get complicated quick.
That Diamondback Haanjo looks like it might have lowrider mounts, but I can't find it mentioned in the text.

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Old 05-12-17, 12:33 PM
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
That Diamondback Haanjo looks like it might have lowrider mounts, but I can't find it mentioned in the text.

[IM G]https://www.diamondback.com/media/catalog/product/cache/1/image/9df78eab33525d08d6e5fb8d27136e95/d/b/db16-haanjoexpcarbon-olive-fork.jpg[/IMG]
Yea the Hannjo, Niner's RLT and RLT RDO, and the new Specy Sequoia are the only stock models I can think of with a carbon front end with any rack points. Just about anyone else overwhelmingly use Whiskey (QBP) forks or ENVE forks both of which only have fender points and not rack points.
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Old 05-12-17, 01:12 PM
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Originally Posted by trailangel View Post
430mm on the Diamondback chainstays. Is that long enough?
I have sz14 shoes and dont clip my bags on a 43mm chainstay. Thats with 170mm crank arms. I do set the bags on far back on the rack to ensure clearance.
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Old 05-12-17, 01:15 PM
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
That Diamondback Haanjo looks like it might have lowrider mounts, but I can't find it mentioned in the text.
Per the website...https://www.diamondback.com/haanjo-exp-carbon
Fork- DB Gravel Disc, Full Monocoque Carbon "CFT", 12mm Thru-axle Drop Outs, Flat Mount Disc Tabs, 1.5" Tapered Steerer Tube, Low-Rider Rack Mounts.

Low rider mounts are there. As mentioned, only a few carbon forks have this setup.
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Old 05-12-17, 01:23 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr View Post
Per the website...https://www.diamondback.com/haanjo-exp-carbon
Fork- DB Gravel Disc, Full Monocoque Carbon "CFT", 12mm Thru-axle Drop Outs, Flat Mount Disc Tabs, 1.5" Tapered Steerer Tube, Low-Rider Rack Mounts.

Low rider mounts are there. As mentioned, only a few carbon forks have this setup.


Whose thru-axles does it use? DT's? Rockshox?


The (minor) problem IME with the low-rider rack position, in combination with thru-axle, is that it requires a bolt-head or Allen-head front axle. The circle made by the cam-head overlaps the rack mount. For my Niner carbon gravel fork I had to get an allen-head SRAM thru-axle to replace the front, in order to use a front rack. And not remove my rack in order to change a tire. Niner FWIW stock ships their aftermarket gravel carbon fork with a swivel-head cam axle, that you cannot loosen without the head flipped 180* open.
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Old 05-12-17, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by BigAura View Post
I'd love to see a purpose-built carbon-tourer that was a direct replacement for my steel-tourer...Bottom line is I'd be willing (realizing carbon is more costly) to pay $250/lb in weight savings assuming identical function-performance from a carbon fiber frame.
The Simplon Silkcarbon, a Swiss/Austrian marketed CF 700c trekking bike, sells for >$2300 as bike or $1500 as frame only. The bike has a full CF frame and fork, Shimano drivetrain, other generic wheels and parts, a rear rack and plastic fenders. Also a B&M headlamp. The frame is rated to 250-275 lbs depending on source, and has 46cm chainstays. Frame/fork comes with 2/4/6 year warranty, with all the usual limitations, plus you'd have to ship to Austria for inspection on a warranty claim. Stated weight for bike is >26 lbs, frame is 1250g.

A similarly built Surly DT weighs ~30 lbs, frame is about 2500g at a cost of ~$1500 for bike, $500 for frameset. Surly Truckers have a 300 lb load limit.

Comparing the Simplon to the Surly, CF frame+fork reduces weight of bike by ~4 lbs at an additional cost of ~$800 - or $200 per pound. Here's an opportunity for you to become the BF CF tourer beta tester...
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Old 05-12-17, 01:44 PM
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
If someone would make a touring specific carbon bike, I wonder if it would be feasible to make it so that you only need a single preset torque wrench. All the critical fasteners on the frame would take the same amount of torque. Then they could sell a lightweight carbon torque wrench too.
Certainly would be an idea!

I'm not a materials engineer, I don't know if such things are possible myself. I do know that my stem calls out two different torque specs on its own, I'd be happy with just keeping it to a small range so only one wrench was necessary.
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Old 05-12-17, 01:50 PM
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Wow, the entire bike can be had for less than the cost of a CF frame. can be purchased at REI to boot so if it's shiest it can easily be returned. BTW REI lists weight for median bike at 21lb 2oz

https://www.rei.com/product/108760/d...rbon-bike-2017

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Old 05-12-17, 02:45 PM
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Originally Posted by seeker333 View Post
The Simplon Silkcarbon, a Swiss/Austrian marketed CF 700c trekking bike, sells for >$2300 as bike or $1500 as frame only. The bike has a full CF frame and fork, Shimano drivetrain, other generic wheels and parts, a rear rack and plastic fenders. Also a B&M headlamp. The frame is rated to 250-275 lbs depending on source, and has 46cm chainstays. Frame/fork comes with 2/4/6 year warranty, with all the usual limitations, plus you'd have to ship to Austria for inspection on a warranty claim. Stated weight for bike is >26 lbs, frame is 1250g.

A similarly built Surly DT weighs ~30 lbs, frame is about 2500g at a cost of ~$1500 for bike, $500 for frameset. Surly Truckers have a 300 lb load limit.

Comparing the Simplon to the Surly, CF frame+fork reduces weight of bike by ~4 lbs at an additional cost of ~$800 - or $200 per pound. Here's an opportunity for you to become the BF CF tourer beta tester...
Thanks! I wasn't familiar Simplon and its all very interesting. BUT not interested in being a tester for a 4-pound saving. PLUS my new build (in progress) is a World Troller (the S&S coupled one) with a lot more functionally variant options. Looking to possibly do do GDMBT. Carbon is the future, not sure the Simplon is it, but who knows?
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Old 05-12-17, 03:01 PM
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Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
Serious question: do those who tour on carbon add a torque wrench to their toolkit?
I don't. There actually aren't *that* many parts on my carbon frames where I'd be overly concerned since the derailleur mounts etc. aren't carbon themselves and I don't carry what I'd need to replace the bottom bracket with me. I'd use a torque wrench to adjust the seat and handlebars I guess, but that pretty much never happens unless someone else is borrowing my bike.
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Old 05-12-17, 03:31 PM
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Originally Posted by manapua_man View Post
I don't. There actually aren't *that* many parts on my carbon frames where I'd be overly concerned since the derailleur mounts etc. aren't carbon themselves and I don't carry what I'd need to replace the bottom bracket with me. I'd use a torque wrench to adjust the seat and handlebars I guess, but that pretty much never happens unless someone else is borrowing my bike.
I'd want the manufacturer carefully designing the eyelet installation. If you are using standard racks that attach via eyelets, as well as fenders, then the frame needs them.

My concern would be eyelets glued into the frame and I'm not seeing an alternative. I've also seen more than a few posts over the years where eyelets for water bottles on carbon frames, etc... failed. Even saw a post with a TT frame whose stem was integral to the headtube and where one of the bar clamp bolt eyelets failed. Frame is basically toast. I assume with proper design, this could be dealt with.

As well and assuming fully loaded non-supported touring, I just don't see the point of a carbon frame and fork. You don't need it for comfort, if the bike is riding stiff, drop 5 PSI out of the tires, as well there are easier and cheaper ways to save weight.

Carbon for touring seems like a solution for a non-existing problem.
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