Interesting little wood burning stove.
#76
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,274
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 150 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6147 Post(s)
Liked 4,091 Times
in
2,325 Posts
But I get your point.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#77
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Left Coast, Canada
Posts: 5,126
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2236 Post(s)
Liked 1,313 Times
in
706 Posts
Man you really sound mad at something but I'm not taking on your drama. Go make a mountain out of a molehill with someone else. Never complained about anything or said a twig burning stove was bad. A poster said using one was carbon neutral and I said (while the impact may be minimal) one can't say it's neutral. From there the discussion took some twists and turns but at each one I think I was pretty clear that I did not think a twig stove was bad nor did I complain about one. Just discussing terminology.
Btw, we have large scale cottonwood woodlots all over the place here. Cottonwoods are a viable biomass crop both commercially and used on almost every farm homestead from here to Ontario as a fast growing wind break to reduce soil erosion. Too bad they didn't know they were doing it wrong.
Btw, we have large scale cottonwood woodlots all over the place here. Cottonwoods are a viable biomass crop both commercially and used on almost every farm homestead from here to Ontario as a fast growing wind break to reduce soil erosion. Too bad they didn't know they were doing it wrong.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 05-28-17 at 11:43 PM.
#78
Senior Member
[QUOTE=Happy Feet;19616853]Man you really sound mad at something but I'm not taking on your drama. Go make a mountain out of a molehill with someone else. Never complained about anything or said a twig burning stove was bad. A poster said using one was carbon neutral and I said (while the impact may be minimal) one can't say it's neutral. From there the discussion took some twists and turns but at each one I think I was pretty clear that I did not think a twig stove was bad nor did I complain about one. Just discussing terminology.
Btw, we have large scale cottonwood woodlots all over the place here. Cottonwoods are a viable biomass crop both commercially and used on almost every farm homestead from here to Ontario as a fast growing wind break to reduce soil erosion. Too bad they didn't know they were doing it wrong.[/QUOTE]
An observation made more than several times about various subjects on which we have been lectured.
Btw, we have large scale cottonwood woodlots all over the place here. Cottonwoods are a viable biomass crop both commercially and used on almost every farm homestead from here to Ontario as a fast growing wind break to reduce soil erosion. Too bad they didn't know they were doing it wrong.[/QUOTE]
An observation made more than several times about various subjects on which we have been lectured.
#79
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,274
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 150 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6147 Post(s)
Liked 4,091 Times
in
2,325 Posts
Man you really sound mad at something but I'm not taking on your drama. Go make a mountain out of a molehill with someone else. Never complained about anything or said a twig burning stove was bad. A poster said using one was carbon neutral and I said (while the impact may be minimal) one can't say it's neutral. From there the discussion took some twists and turns but at each one I think I was pretty clear that I did not think a twig stove was bad nor did I complain about one. Just discussing terminology.
As to the poster saying that a twig stove is carbon neutral, he is close enough to being correct to make it a nonissue. It's a matter of degrees. A pound of wood puts out 2 lbs of carbon. As we are already riding bikes for long distances, we are putting out far less carbon dioxide on our trips than we would if we were driving a car. A gallon of gas releases 20 lb of carbon dioxide. And we use a gallon per about every 30 miles. As I said above, it's a drop in an ocean.
I'll also admit that wood puts out just a bit more carbon than propane when it burns because the propane is more efficient but again, it's a matter of degree. It certainly doesn't necessitate a call for bicycle tourist to pass a purity test for carbon neutrality.
Btw, we have large scale cottonwood woodlots all over the place here. Cottonwoods are a viable biomass crop both commercially and used on almost every farm homestead from here to Ontario as a fast growing wind break to reduce soil erosion. Too bad they didn't know they were doing it wrong.
I didn't say they were doing it "wrong" only that calling the tree used for energy crops a "cottonwood" is incorrect. We looked at growing varieties of "cottonwood" for energy crops long ago and they simply didn't work. Clever botanists bred various poplars species together to get desirable traits like faster growth and less branching. The result is "hybrid poplar" which is what are used for energy crops.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#80
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Left Coast, Canada
Posts: 5,126
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2236 Post(s)
Liked 1,313 Times
in
706 Posts
Again, never said a twig stove was bad. Just clarifying terms. Stuart seems to be confused between carbon footprint and carbon neutral. A twig stove has a very small carbon foot print, to the point of being insignificant, but it isn't carbon neutral. That's all.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 05-29-17 at 08:52 AM.
#81
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Stephenville TX
Posts: 3,697
Bikes: 2010 Trek 7100
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 697 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
One thing I am curious about; has anyone tried really hot burning woods in these stoves? Mesquite, bois d'arc and pecan are also common around here, and of course, 98+% of mesquite trees are unwanted anyway, so nobody objects to harvesting them for firewood. Not really an issue if you just want a handful of wood for breakfast anyway, but in a longer term situation it might be worth splitting some larger chunks down for the stove.
#82
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Left Coast, Canada
Posts: 5,126
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2236 Post(s)
Liked 1,313 Times
in
706 Posts
I just talked to a farmer recently about Cottonwood trees and falling limbs.
While out for a ride on Sumas Prairie I came across the largest diameter trunk on a Cottonwood tree I had ever seen. I even put my bike against it and took a pic. The farmer was there and I marveled at it's size and he said "yeah, but I'm gonna cut it down". He said "see all those branches there (there were a lot on the ground). Every year it drops more and I'm sick of picking them up."
I later took my wife for a ride to look at the tree before it is gone.
I'll try to post that pic when I get home from work.
While out for a ride on Sumas Prairie I came across the largest diameter trunk on a Cottonwood tree I had ever seen. I even put my bike against it and took a pic. The farmer was there and I marveled at it's size and he said "yeah, but I'm gonna cut it down". He said "see all those branches there (there were a lot on the ground). Every year it drops more and I'm sick of picking them up."
I later took my wife for a ride to look at the tree before it is gone.
I'll try to post that pic when I get home from work.
#83
Senior Member
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Stephenville TX
Posts: 3,697
Bikes: 2010 Trek 7100
Mentioned: 6 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 697 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 3 Times
in
3 Posts
While out for a ride on Sumas Prairie I came across the largest diameter trunk on a Cottonwood tree I had ever seen. I even put my bike against it and took a pic. The farmer was there and I marveled at it's size and he said "yeah, but I'm gonna cut it down". He said "see all those branches there (there were a lot on the ground). Every year it drops more and I'm sick of picking them up."
Not sure what the diameter is on the one off my porch, but if it ever starts looking unhealthy, I'm moving before it falls. It's too big and too close to the house to remove without a serious crane.
#84
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,049
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18318 Post(s)
Liked 15,261 Times
in
7,219 Posts
It took a while, but this thread ended up where I thought it would.
#86
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Left Coast, Canada
Posts: 5,126
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2236 Post(s)
Liked 1,313 Times
in
706 Posts
They will probably burn well and be carbon neutral because somewhere, a rubber tree is growing.
I looked back to see where the disconnect was and believe this may be it:
Confusing two issues; renewable resources and carbon footprints. The atmosphere does not discriminate between varying sources of CO2 gas, whether it comes from fossil fuels or wood. CO2 is CO2. Arguing one form is good and one is bad is kooky.
I looked back to see where the disconnect was and believe this may be it:
Some people may say that but the whole idea of renewable energy is to relate the carbon to the source. Carbon offsets are predicated on the idea of doing something to reduce the carbon dioxide from fossil fuels by either switching to other sources of energy or by increasing the trapping of fossil carbon.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 05-29-17 at 01:45 PM.
#87
Senior Member
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,049
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18318 Post(s)
Liked 15,261 Times
in
7,219 Posts
I am 52. I bought the second motor vehicle of my life last July. It has fewer than 2,500 miles on it. Does that mean I can burn whatever I want for a few weeks while touring?
#88
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Left Coast, Canada
Posts: 5,126
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2236 Post(s)
Liked 1,313 Times
in
706 Posts
All kidding aside. This whole sidebar discussion has little to do with anyone actually using a little stove from my POV.
One poster made a comment, I know he is interested in this sort of thing, so I replied that the process didn't fit the description. Back and forth back and forth, as these things go.
Just don't want anyone thinking I'm suggesting someone not use a twig stove because of it.
#89
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Left Coast, Canada
Posts: 5,126
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2236 Post(s)
Liked 1,313 Times
in
706 Posts
Here's the Cottonwood tree I mentioned earlier. I don't think the picture does it justice:
...and some cottonwood seed on my front walk from the trees that don't exist around here:
...and some cottonwood seed on my front walk from the trees that don't exist around here:
#90
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,274
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 150 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6147 Post(s)
Liked 4,091 Times
in
2,325 Posts
I know, that's why I'm done. When someone starts telling me the trees I see aren't what I see or that I don't understand basic greenhouse gas terminology it's a little too much. I'll have to relate this to my Instructors at the Horticulture College I attended to get my Diploma in Greenhouse Management.
But, since you seem to have some horticulture experience, you should know that.
Even if we go by your definition, the amount of carbon emitted is so small as to be not enough to make a mountain out of the molehill. That's what I object to most about your argument. You really don't need to make people feel bad about burning a tiny amount of carbon to cook a meal. Do you not cook on tour? Not eat? Not wear clothes? Not bathe or wash clothes? Or ride a bike made by energy intensive processes? Unless you avoid all those processes, you have a much larger carbon footprint...and not a neutral one at that...than someone who burns a few twigs to cook dinner. You don't need to carbon shame someone unless you are prepared to be carbon shamed yourself.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#91
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,274
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 150 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6147 Post(s)
Liked 4,091 Times
in
2,325 Posts
I'm not confusing two issues. I've been working in renewable energy sources for 35 years. The whole point of utilizing them is to reduce fossil fuel usage and the attendant excess carbon dioxide they release by using crops that use short rotation carbon dioxide stored in the plant. People have decided that all carbon dioxide is bad because they don't understand this concept.
No, I can't tell you where a carbon dioxide molecule came from but I can tell you that there is excess in the atmosphere. The excess needs to be removed but only the excess. Remove more than than and you set off a whole cascade of other problems that may be more severe than the excess.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#92
Senior Member
Awww, folks. Can't we co-exist in a less pedantic BF way?
We all have belly-buttons and, we all have opinions. But being less pedantic would be nice IMHO.
We all have belly-buttons and, we all have opinions. But being less pedantic would be nice IMHO.
#93
Senior Member
Arguing that all carbon dioxide is bad is much more kooky. The planet needs carbon dioxide just as it needs oxygen. Without it, plants can't grow.
I'm not confusing two issues. I've been working in renewable energy sources for 35 years. The whole point of utilizing them is to reduce fossil fuel usage and the attendant excess carbon dioxide they release by using crops that use short rotation carbon dioxide stored in the plant. People have decided that all carbon dioxide is bad because they don't understand this concept.
No, I can't tell you where a carbon dioxide molecule came from but I can tell you that there is excess in the atmosphere. The excess needs to be removed but only the excess. Remove more than than and you set off a whole cascade of other problems that may be more severe than the excess.
I'm not confusing two issues. I've been working in renewable energy sources for 35 years. The whole point of utilizing them is to reduce fossil fuel usage and the attendant excess carbon dioxide they release by using crops that use short rotation carbon dioxide stored in the plant. People have decided that all carbon dioxide is bad because they don't understand this concept.
No, I can't tell you where a carbon dioxide molecule came from but I can tell you that there is excess in the atmosphere. The excess needs to be removed but only the excess. Remove more than than and you set off a whole cascade of other problems that may be more severe than the excess.
#94
Senior Member
When there is too much carbon in the atmosphere, every molecule added is bad. We are in absolutely no danger of having too little C02 in the atmosphere of our planet. If we keep on adding it from every conceivable source, and remove only miniscule amounts, the planet is doomed. Look at Venus. 95% CO2 temperatures of 470 degrees.
OTOH, it would be interesting to measure Venus and Earth surface temps if they were the same distance from the sun....
#95
40 yrs bike touring
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Santa Barbara,CA.
Posts: 1,021
Bikes: Bruce Gordon Ti Rock N Road [1989], Fat Chance Mountain Tandem [1988], Velo Orange Neutrino (2020)
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 14 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 6 Times
in
5 Posts
I confess without embarrassment to a long history of using wood burning and alcohol stoves under safe/legal and appropriate conditions on bike, ski and kayak tours over the last fifty plus years. The Sierra Zip Stove and the Emberlit stoves mentioned and Trangia alcohol stoves have proven useful for my needs on tour. Small twigs gathered at home and on site have powered these wood stoves handily. Just one of many tools to choose from for touring.
#96
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Left Coast, Canada
Posts: 5,126
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2236 Post(s)
Liked 1,313 Times
in
706 Posts
Stuart tries to say there is no need to "shame" or "make people feel bad" about using a stove. All things I have repeatedly said myself. But by saying that he is not so cleverly trying an ad hominem attack because his appeal to authority strategy is so stridently blatant.
It's the same when he wants to sound like the expert on Al by first suggesting everyone buys steel thinking it can be repaired by the village smitty. Just a negative premise to launch rhetoric from. Argument fallacies 101.
To test the veracity one needs only think a little bit.
If one kind of carbon is "good" and the other is "bad" in should stand to reason that burning a rainforest would be ok but a lump of coal harmful. Of course no one thinks that as the atmosphere does not discriminate as to the source of CO2, just the volume. Fossil fuel is currently the focus because it creates the most volume. If everything ran on wood fuel there would be the same problem.
Nor does the earth discriminate as to which CO2 gas source it sequesters - fossil or wood - it is all the same and gets stored equally. To imagine you can burn wood and consider it carbon neutral because wood sequesters CO2 is a premise based on a basic misunderstanding of science.
Companies plant biomass simply because it is one way to sequester CO2 and by doing so they can balance their output and create a smaller carbon footprint. If they do enough they become carbon neutral. You don't need to use big words to understand that simple concept.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 05-31-17 at 12:59 PM.
#97
Senior Member
Join Date: Apr 2011
Posts: 780
Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 226 Post(s)
Liked 45 Times
in
32 Posts
Nor does the earth discriminate as to which CO2 gas source it sequesters - fossil or wood - it is all the same and gets stored equally. To imagine you can burn wood and consider it carbon neutral because wood sequesters CO2 is a premise based on a basic misunderstanding of science.
Companies plant biomass simply because it is one way to sequester CO2 and by doing so they can balance their output and create a smaller carbon footprint. If they do enough they become carbon neutral. You don't need to use big words to understand that simple concept.
Companies plant biomass simply because it is one way to sequester CO2 and by doing so they can balance their output and create a smaller carbon footprint. If they do enough they become carbon neutral. You don't need to use big words to understand that simple concept.
#98
Senior Member
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: Left Coast, Canada
Posts: 5,126
Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2236 Post(s)
Liked 1,313 Times
in
706 Posts
Not really.
Those terms always relate to a specific activity. What something else does, somewhere else, doesn't make what you or I do any better or worse. If that were the case, every corp would claim some natural process as a cancelling justification for their action. The only way that works is if a corp pays to facilitate an action which is the premise behind carbon offsets.
It's not that hard to understand. If your process releases CO2 gas it creates a footprint. If you run a cleaner process you reduce that footprint. If you cause CO2 gas to be resequestered you offset that footprint. Sequester enough CO2 equal to that which you produce and you are CO2 neutral and, if you use a process that does not emit CO2 you are also carbon neutral. Fit any fuel into that concept and it's the same.
Those terms always relate to a specific activity. What something else does, somewhere else, doesn't make what you or I do any better or worse. If that were the case, every corp would claim some natural process as a cancelling justification for their action. The only way that works is if a corp pays to facilitate an action which is the premise behind carbon offsets.
It's not that hard to understand. If your process releases CO2 gas it creates a footprint. If you run a cleaner process you reduce that footprint. If you cause CO2 gas to be resequestered you offset that footprint. Sequester enough CO2 equal to that which you produce and you are CO2 neutral and, if you use a process that does not emit CO2 you are also carbon neutral. Fit any fuel into that concept and it's the same.
#99
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,274
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 150 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6147 Post(s)
Liked 4,091 Times
in
2,325 Posts
For energy crops, and/or for paper, straight tall trees are desired. Take a look at your tree plantations again. I've been by some in Oregon along the Columbia River. Yes, they are "poplars" and they are related to cottonwoods because cottonwood is a member of the Poplus family. But the trees in the plantations have tall straight stems with very little branching until the tops of the trees. This occurs mostly through self-pruning where the bark squeezed out the excess branches.
"Cottonwoods", whether the eastern or western variety branch everywhere and have multiple branches and often split stems like the one in your picture.
I have not said that "you don't see cottonwoods" in your area. I said that the trees you see in plantations aren't "cottonwoods". Your seed picture illustrates another aspect of plantation trees that is undesirable...that is seeds. Hybrid poplars are bred to not to produce seeds because you'd have to deal with seedlings in the plantation which means extra labor and effort to keep the trees at the optimal distance for maximum biomass production and making seeds robs the tree of energy that could be used to put on growth. Sterile organisms tend to grow more and faster because little energy is put into making offspring.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#100
Mad bike riding scientist
Join Date: Nov 2004
Location: Denver, CO
Posts: 27,274
Bikes: Some silver ones, a red one, a black and orange one, and a few titanium ones
Mentioned: 150 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 6147 Post(s)
Liked 4,091 Times
in
2,325 Posts
When there is too much carbon in the atmosphere, every molecule added is bad. We are in absolutely no danger of having too little C02 in the atmosphere of our planet. If we keep on adding it from every conceivable source, and remove only miniscule amounts, the planet is doomed. Look at Venus. 95% CO2 temperatures of 470 degrees.
But then, as now, the problem is with adding carbon dioxide. The carbon that exists in living organisms (or short term dead organisms) and is released due to natural processes is not "added". It is merely recycled.
On a side note, only a portion of that wood degrades into carbon dioxide naturally. There is about 20 percent of all wood that won't degrade. It's a structural member of the plant and there is no organism that utilizes it for energy. If you've ever seen "punky" wood, i.e. brown and kind of rotten, that's the lignin part. It will burn, of course, but it won't be consumed by organisms. Natural processes bury this part and eventually turn it into coal.
Not really.
Those terms always relate to a specific activity. What something else does, somewhere else, doesn't make what you or I do any better or worse. If that were the case, every corp would claim some natural process as a cancelling justification for their action. The only way that works is if a corp pays to facilitate an action which is the premise behind carbon offsets.
It's not that hard to understand. If your process releases CO2 gas it creates a footprint. If you run a cleaner process you reduce that footprint. If you cause CO2 gas to be resequestered you offset that footprint. Sequester enough CO2 equal to that which you produce and you are CO2 neutral and, if you use a process that does not emit CO2 you are also carbon neutral. Fit any fuel into that concept and it's the same.
Those terms always relate to a specific activity. What something else does, somewhere else, doesn't make what you or I do any better or worse. If that were the case, every corp would claim some natural process as a cancelling justification for their action. The only way that works is if a corp pays to facilitate an action which is the premise behind carbon offsets.
It's not that hard to understand. If your process releases CO2 gas it creates a footprint. If you run a cleaner process you reduce that footprint. If you cause CO2 gas to be resequestered you offset that footprint. Sequester enough CO2 equal to that which you produce and you are CO2 neutral and, if you use a process that does not emit CO2 you are also carbon neutral. Fit any fuel into that concept and it's the same.
On the other hand, if a cyclist on tour uses a twig to cook a meal, they have already offset the use of that twig by not utilizing fossil carbon based fuels for their travel. They are carbon neutral both in the use of a renewable energy source for cooking and for travel. They aren't putting fossil carbon into the biosphere.
__________________
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!