suncruiser

I normally won't speak up on stuff like this, and I don't have any real experience touring yet, but 3000 miles a year isn't that difficult to achieve... I put a little over 4200 in in 2016 just in Seattle (15.5 miles each way commuting to work, 31 mile total, 5 days a week for over 8 months, not including any recreational riding on top of that)

150k isn't hard to believe.

BigAura

Making up third-grade math examples is not the same as actually doing it. I'm sorry but your previous posts don't back up your 200,000 mile claim.

mstateglfr 

Of course there are posters here who have a lot more miles. I am not responding to their claims though- only yours.


A few things-

- I would say that 3000mi is quite difficult to achieve for most cyclists. Commuters, long distance riders, and year round riders are the serious minority of all cyclists. For those groups(and others), yes 3000mi is absolutely doable and not difficult to believe.

- I disagreed with the specific poster's claim of 150,000 miles ridden, not the general idea that a person cant ride 150,000 miles. Please understand that I dont doubt there are lifelong cyclists who stay healthy and interested long enough to reach 150K miles and more. I simply doubt the Squeeze is one.

Happy Feet

Absolutely conceivable. But the problem with using mileage in a p-ssing match is that often the person you are engaging probably has more and just shakes their head at the foolishness. I lived carfree until I was 28, worked as a courier, commuted to college and commute to work each day, on top of recreational riding and touring since my 20's.

but...

the proof isn't in unverifiable boastful mileage but in the quality of ones posts. For what I claim one would expect that I should be able to ride a wide variety of bikes in a wide variety of configurations, service and perhaps even strip and rebuild them easily and be able to come up with a plan, assemble the tools needed and accomplish that plan, and carry out that plan, again fairly easily considering claimed experience. And.. that's exactly what I post (with pics and video to boot). Not bragging, just sharing my experiences touring with others because I, and they, like touring.

on the other hand we have...

It's also foolish to think the quality of ones bike (or imagined bike) is any indication of anything. It's just a thing. I have an open line of credit that would allow me to buy the most expensive touring bike in production if I so chose, and a wife that would probably let me, but that would not make my current bike tours any more successful or me any more experienced with them. If you like a particular bike it means nothing more than you like that bike. Thinking anything else is just ego stroking.

BillyD

Alright guys, that's enough sniping. Please learn how to put somebody on ignore if you can't stomach them.

BillyD

This.

suncruiser

I'll agree with this. Honestly, I post to ask questions, and that's about it normally. I have ridden a fair bit myself, on things from bso' s to halfway decent bikes (nothing particularly fancy, an entry level MTB/hard tail is probably the best I've owned/ridden to any real extent, and I'm sure you all have seen my bike list change on and off) I haunt the touring forum quite a bit looking for new info and peoples experiences with certain bikes (which has helped me choose my touring rig, thanks all!) Because I genuinely want to begin touring.

Siu Blue Wind

OH don't make me come in here.

DropBarFan

I don't think mega-touring miles is an absolute prerequisite in judging bikes. Haven't toured that much but I rode ~80,000 mi/130,000 km as a courier over bad streets with aggressive traffic in all sorts of weather. IE often in the conditions that most tourists strive to avoid. Taught me a lot about maintenance & need for good brakes & comfy ride.

Machka 

Cool!!

I have 101,923.45 miles | 164,029.89 km

As I'm sure you know, anyone with as many miles/kilometres as we have will have some record of our rides ... our names on event participation lists, photos, mentions in other people's stories, people we've met, etc.

I'll share some of mine if you share some of yours!

I'll start:
https://www.flickr.com/photos/machka-bb/collections

Now you ...

DropBarFan

You've posted many great photos & tour descriptions but also consider that before recent years cameras were relatively heavy/expensive/fragile & few bikers toted a camera. I did decades of riding w/o taking any ride photos.

Machka 

Back 15 years ago, I used disposable cameras ...

pdlamb

Touring is something of a specialized part of bicycling, and I think it's fair to challenge apparent misinformation that occasionally gets posted. Personal experience tops any number of web searches, youtube videos watched, etc., IMHO.

If we're discounting pictures (and I'm not, personally), what other means would be viable to assess whether a post is based on significant, relevant touring experience, as opposed to a web surfer with too much time on his (or her) hands?

Rowan

The issue that exists here is that someone who claimed to have ridden 150,000 miles on bicycles over a lifetime, shows little to no respect for others who have likely done the same or more. Even those who have done fewer miles have likely done a lot of those in a touring manner.

I think you can tell when someone knows through experience about a particular branch of cycling. They talk intellligently about options, often using past experiences that, while not necessarily can be verified, certainly gel with other people's experiences.

And they don't denigrate, through ignorance, others' choices on how they go about, say, bicycle touring. You know that from the Long Distane forum, too, that there is a wealth of knowledge and experience there. In the end, even you and I can learn new things by participating despite our long-term experience.

Throughout the discussions here, the poster in question appears to have taken a derogatory line on just about every subject that he has posted. He has shown little to no respect for almost every other participant here, yet whined loudly when he was taken to task for his attitude.

I don't recall any occasion when he has made a worthwhile contribution based on his recent or past experience when touring on a bicycle... or in fact, even riding one. In the end, it became a game of wind up the Energizer Bunny and watch him perform.

There are numerous other posters who have participated in the touring forum as complete newbies. Some of them have held strong beliefs based on material they have read or listened to already, and have challenged -- sometimes quite nastily, sometimes with a faux pat-on-the-head -- others who have stated the opposite based on experience. They haven't particularly lasted on the forum, or their own adventures have turned sour.

Those who come with an open mind, and remain with an open mind, and reasonably argue a case, are likely to be treated more kindly than someone who dismisses, insultingly, anything which is contrary to their perceptions.

For mine, if the poster in question is indeed in his mid-60s, time is running out to enjoy what cycle-touring has to offer. His tme would be far better spent getting on the Trek and riding it rather than doing what he has done in this forum.

We've stated numerous times that the bike doesn't really matter for touring so long as it fits and is comfortable. The other crap is just personal preference. When he gets that, he will both be ready to enjoy his cycle-touring and possible participating again in this forum.

BigAura

Nowadays there's filters & apps for that!

mev

I'm always a bit surprised/amused at how people develop strongly held views on things like frame materials and in those cases a bit more curious to understand if there is something behind it. I have no experience with carbon, so thinking more of aluminum vs. steel as cases I have personal experience:

The A/B comparisons I have include:
- I did the first 3500km of my current ride on a Trek 520 (steel) and after that on a Trek 4500 (aluminum). Do the bikes ride differently? Sure, one is also a touring bike and the other a mountain bike. Is there a single "best"? Not really.
- When I cycled TDA in Africa, it was interesting to see ~60 cyclists each with different bike choices, traveling unloaded on a sometimes rough terrain. Often the rider seemed to make a bigger difference than the bike itself.
- I broke a frame once. It was left chainstay on an aluminum bike frame, through misuse (forcing a wheel that was too wide for the dropout width and then riding ~1500km, further). I consider it an aberration and whether steel or aluminum I was halfway through a one-year trip so was going to get a reliable replacement rather than a repair.

I also found it interesting to see people's bike setups when I came across different parts of the Great Divide last year. I can see where a light bike packer setup would make a big difference in a Tour Divide race condition, but there is a lot more involved than changing just the bike frame. So if you are doing something for less weight, it helps to pick multiple components of a more ultralight setup. Myself, I'll avoid carrying unnecessary weight but when I lost 20kg on rides crossing Canada or Africa - the amount from a frame is a much smaller proportion of weight than me as a rider.

So I am skeptical in these discussions of a single "best" as much as like a lot of things in touring, a set of tradeoffs and a set of preferences for those tradeoffs. Frame materials at least as much as some of the other areas with alternatives (e.g. fully loaded vs. credit card, camping vs. hotels, cook vs. no-cook, early departure vs. late, how many hours in the saddle, how often to take rest days, etc...). Just when you think you know it all, someone else can demonstrate the counter-example.

J.Higgins 

I like your style, Mev.

DropBarFan

I had totally forgotten about disposables! I had a compact Olympus but anyway film developing was fairly expensive & almost all places I rode I'd seen before on car trips so I figured why bother with photos. First trip to Europe (car) I took a bunch of pics & mail-order developer or post office lost 'em.

DropBarFan

Perhaps folks new to a certain field are more apt to question the status quo. "Outsider" Greg Lemond pioneered aero bars, clipless pedals & bike glasses which BTW are now common among tourers. Conservative European bike companies lost huge market share to more innovative American/Japanese/Chinese firms despite having more racers & tourists.

Personally I'd like to see more tourists squawking about having to pay premium prices for touring bikes with outdated technology. Many choices but always with glaring compromises. In 20 years majority of bike tourists will ride carbon-fiber frames w/hydraulic brakes & there will be options for lighter-weight components too.

Happy Feet

Well.. I dunno. Is anyone being forced to do anything? What outdated technology is anyone stuck with? I don't feel I'm stuck with anything.

There's being interested in new technology in a positive way and there's using it to put other people down.

Don't you think more people should look at their road bikes and ask just what they actually spent 5k on and what that really gives them?

I bet 90% of people riding those bikes wouldn't even reach the potential of a 1k bike and the person obsessed with new tech here hasn't even scratched the surface of the potential possible with a traditional touring bike.

One doesn't push technology with mediocrity. If someone wants to champion something as being better one should be able to demonstrate that with some practical applications rather than just relying on what some ad copy says somewhere and, if they can't they shouldn't criticize people who are touring successfully until they can.

geoffs

Have to agree with you Happy Feet.
I love technology and suffer badly from upgraditis but I would never put anyone down because they were using 8 speed on a steel bike. I think it's worthwhile giving options if people ask for them but there's never a need for sniping or negativity.
We ride a steel tandem with S&S couplers. I like parts that I know will be reliable and as I don't want to break down in the middle of nowhere. If that does happen though I spent 8 years working as a bike mechanic for Steve Hogg and I still build wheels professionally, so I'm pretty good at roadside repairs. There's always someone who has done more kms than someone else. We have guys in our club who average 25-30,000 kms a year. I just checked strava and I only did a bit over 10,000kms last year way down on the 20,000+ i did when I was younger but I've been riding now for 36yrs so it all adds up.
Everybody starts somewhere and if thats on a $500 bike and only riding 40kms a day then thats great. It doesn't make me a better person or tourer because our tandems worth 10k+ and that's cheap compared to our road bikes.
Now if Filament cycles could make a tandem with graphene in the tube set so I was confident it would be ok for touring I'm buying one!!

Rowan

The thing is... you can hold a decent conversation about this subject and likely just about any other in cycling without beng condescending or insulting, based on this post alone.

Kudos on the rest!

LeeG

I had a Minolta 110 then a Rollie 35.

shipwreck

Is eight speed the cut off? One would use a sliding scale with a light sneer and condescending comment for seven speed, a guffaw with a pityingly scornful shake of the head for six speed(extra incredulity thrown in if its Maillard, varying degrees of disgust for Huret or Suntour. If its Accushift just pretend they don't exist after the initial moral assault). Five speed gets openly insulting derision for only as long as it takes to drive the culprit away, followed by a lifetime of avoidance only to be grudgingly let go if they show up with the latest gen eleven speed.

The physical contortions and vocal volume needed to let the person with the three speed know where they stand could hurt someone.

Geez, my bike shed could give seizures to anyone using this formula. I'd find them in the late afternoon, huddled under the only two nine speeds I own

geoffs

Lol. Not being condescending.
Some of the A graders from our club do the Sunday ride to Waterfall on beater bikes and fixed gears because they know it's not about the bike. It's the engine that matters.
A few years ago on the Great Victorian Bike Ride a lot of bikes were given to people who signed up for the ride. There were a few young guys who were riding these bikes and making it first in at the end of the day in front of the hard core riders on the superlight bikes with carbon wheels.
After a couple of days the young ones donned their Institute of Sport jerseys and everyone realised why they were coming in first even if they were on $200 mtb's