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Old 07-29-17, 05:05 PM   #1
valeriano
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Help with rear hub

Hello,

for the first time in my life, I'm thinking about assembling a real bike for touring.
The problem is: What rear hub to use.

Since I HATE derailleurs, I've started riding single speed in 2004 and in 2013 I discovered the wonders of the Fixed Gear bikes. After that, I rode more than 30.000km fixed. I completed 2 Audax Randonneurs full series on a fixed gear bike, so I'm pretty used to long distances.
The problem is: Since I always ride fixed, I have no idea at all about gears.

I've been using 48x15 on all my long distance rides, and 48x17 every time I have to climb something with more than 9% incline for too much time (if it's less than 3km, I just push the bike uphill).

I never did a real touring ride. I have traveled with my bike several times, but most of the time if it is less than 300km, I just do everything in one day.

But I'm planing my first REAL touring ride for 2018, where I intend to ride all the way from south Germany to Norway.
Yes, I thought about doing it fixed, but I just don't want to push the bike every time I hit a hill with more than 8% incline when I'm loaded.

After discovering and tried those internal gear hubs, I started thinking about having a bike with gears again. But I have no idea how to calculate the gear ratio on those things. I plan on using a 46T chainring on my bike and have the biggest gear ratio around 3.2 (similar to 48x15) and the lowest between 2.3 (46x20) and 2.5 (46x18).

Any help on how to choose a proper internal gear hub to achieve those ratios?
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Old 07-29-17, 09:57 PM   #2
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Here is an alternate gear calculator, preloaded with many IGH.

http://gear-calculator.com/?GR=SNI8&...&SL=2.6&UN=KMH

You can also choose for it to display ratios or other common metrics.

A 46T chainring with a 23T rear cog on a Shimano Alfin 8 gives you ratios from 1.05 to 3.23.

A 46T chainring with a 19T rear cog on a Sturmey Archer AW (3 speed) gives you ratios from 1.82 to 3.23.

Last edited by nfmisso; 07-29-17 at 10:03 PM.
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Old 07-30-17, 12:31 AM   #3
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Here is an alternate gear calculator, preloaded with many IGH.

You can also choose for it to display ratios or other common metrics.

A 46T chainring with a 23T rear cog on a Shimano Alfin 8 gives you ratios from 1.05 to 3.23.

A 46T chainring with a 19T rear cog on a Sturmey Archer AW (3 speed) gives you ratios from 1.82 to 3.23.
This looks awesome, but the interface is a bit confusing. I just couldn't figure out where are the gear ratios...
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Old 07-30-17, 12:48 AM   #4
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Found another gear calculator, much simpler, but much easier to understand at bikefix.co.uk.
Thanks.
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Old 07-30-17, 01:16 AM   #5
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My preferred method is to set the calculator to [email protected]
Knowing my speed and cadence range, it's easy to try combinations until I see what ratios will fit.
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Old 07-30-17, 02:08 AM   #6
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The Sheldon Brown one does the job.
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Old 07-30-17, 08:56 AM   #7
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Make sure that whatever hub you get will fit into the frame dropouts.

If you are using drop bars, you might be able to fit a bar end shifter to your bars if you want.
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Old 07-30-17, 01:23 PM   #8
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Make sure that whatever hub you get will fit into the frame dropouts.

If you are using drop bars, you might be able to fit a bar end shifter to your bars if you want.
For what u want I think an old sturmey archer aw ought to do it. The total range is 177% and the gears are evenly spaced. The hub is fairly light and rolls really easily. Plus you could get a SA bar end shifter for it.
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Old 07-30-17, 01:47 PM   #9
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What's wrong with derailleurs?
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Old 07-30-17, 02:47 PM   #10
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if you use an aw with a 48 tooth chainring and a 20 tooth sprocket you'll get 86.4, 64.8 and 48.6 inches on a 700cx 32 tire. this will give you an excellent range of gears until the really steep stuff comes along. the old aw's are quite sturdy. this actually sounds pretty cool to me!

Sturmey Archer Thumb Bar End / Downtube Shifters SLS30/SLS50 For Internal Hubs | eBay this will shift your gears.
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Old 07-30-17, 07:03 PM   #11
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if you use an aw with a 48 tooth chainring and a 20 tooth sprocket you'll get 86.4, 64.8 and 48.6 inches on a 700cx 32 tire. this will give you an excellent range of gears until the really steep stuff comes along. the old aw's are quite sturdy. this actually sounds pretty cool to me!

Sturmey Archer Thumb Bar End / Downtube Shifters SLS30/SLS50 For Internal Hubs | eBay this will shift your gears.
I, and many others, use much lower gearing than 48.6 in. I know several people, including me, who use low end gearing in the 17-20 in. range; and on really long steep hills it sometimes feels like even that is not low enough.

Good luck!
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Old 07-30-17, 10:29 PM   #12
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Make sure that whatever hub you get will fit into the frame dropouts.

If you are using drop bars, you might be able to fit a bar end shifter to your bars if you want.
I'll probably use a Shimano Nexus 8. Still haven't decided the size of the cog. The frame will be a Surly Ogre.
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Old 07-30-17, 10:48 PM   #13
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What's wrong with derailleurs?
Too much maintenance. I started riding fixed exactly because I didn't want to have to do maintenance all the time on my bike.
Internal gear hubs are the closest thing I've seen so far, to a fixed gear bike, considering maintenance.
I like my bike to be as simple as possible, so I don't get a headache in the middle of my rides.

I've seen a guy get his back derailleur stuck because of mud on a 300km brevet, after riding 250km. He had to abandon the brevet because he couldn't fix it there.

This also happened with Iohan Gueorguiev when he was riding Canada. His back derailleur got stuck because of mud and he had to hitchhike.
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Old 07-30-17, 11:13 PM   #14
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Our son raced cyclocross for several years, and never had a derailleur problem caused by mud.

On a tour a few years ago part of our route took my wife and I over 400 miles of dirt roads and trails. No major problems. A few squirts with a water bottle usually cleans things pretty well.

Nothing complicated about a derailleur.

These guys play in the mud all the time, and their derailleurs seem to work just fine



Last edited by Doug64; 07-30-17 at 11:23 PM.
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Old 07-30-17, 11:45 PM   #15
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Our son raced cyclocross for several years, and never had a derailleur problem caused by mud.

On a tour a few years ago part of our route took my wife and I over 400 miles of dirt roads and trails. No major problems. A few squirts with a water bottle usually cleans things pretty well.

Nothing complicated about a derailleur.

These guys play in the mud all the time, and their derailleurs seem to work just fine
I'll leave the derailleur for you and keep low maintenance for me.
Nice that you are happy with them. I never was.
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Old 07-31-17, 06:47 AM   #16
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I, and many others, use much lower gearing than 48.6 in. I know several people, including me, who use low end gearing in the 17-20 in. range; and on really long steep hills it sometimes feels like even that is not low enough.

Good luck!
i use a 20" gear on my derailleur bike and probably wouldnt tour without it. i was just trying to help the op with his goals. trust me i know i would have to push often with a 48" low gear but he has been riding a fixie. he knows how to push. there is more than one way to set up a bike.
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Old 07-31-17, 07:01 AM   #17
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i use a 20" gear on my derailleur bike and probably wouldnt tour without it. i was just trying to help the op with his goals. trust me i know i would have to push often with a 48" low gear but he has been riding a fixie. he knows how to push. there is more than one way to set up a bike.
I have no idea what 20'' or 48'' gear means. I can ride uphill until 8% incline with 15kg of stuff on my bike (I do that every time I go to the supermarket). And I'm riding 48x15 (3.2 gear ratio) all the time.
I've done 17% inclines with 48x17 (2.82 gear ratio). And this was in a 200km ride with 3500m climbing. So I guess I'm ok.
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Old 07-31-17, 07:04 AM   #18
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I adopted Internal gear hubs to let my derailleur touring bike rest and gather dust..

IGH in a an 04 Koga WTR. R is for Rohloff..


But here on the west end of the Trans Am route those who ride it are predominantly on derailleur bikes.

many Hundreds of them.




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Old 07-31-17, 07:27 AM   #19
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Quote:
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I've been using 48x15 on all my long distance rides, and 48x17 every time I have to climb something with more than 9% incline for too much time (if it's less than 3km, I just push the bike uphill).
WOW! If the hill is less than 1.8mi long, you just push the bike up it? Thats a ton of walking. And what if the climb is longer than 1.8mi?...i cant imagine you ride that if you need to push a bike for the shorter length.
Pushing a bike for every hill up to 1.8mi long would be no fun for me.


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Too much maintenance. I started riding fixed exactly because I didn't want to have to do maintenance all the time on my bike.
You found what works for you, so thats cool. With that said, there just isnt 'all the time' maintenance for derailleur bikes. Derailleurs rarely go out of tune and when they do, its a few turns of a tension screw to get em back to good. Again, fixed works for you so cool and I certainly wont change you mind on wanting to use derailleurs, but please dont think they fall out of tune so often that you need to work on them 'all the time' as you claim.



Good luck with the bike pushing. Genuinely, I hope it goes well as you have a better outlook than I on that sort of thing.
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Old 07-31-17, 07:46 AM   #20
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WOW! If the hill is less than 1.8mi long, you just push the bike up it? Thats a ton of walking. And what if the climb is longer than 1.8mi?...i cant imagine you ride that if you need to push a bike for the shorter length.
Pushing a bike for every hill up to 1.8mi long would be no fun for me.



You found what works for you, so thats cool. With that said, there just isnt 'all the time' maintenance for derailleur bikes. Derailleurs rarely go out of tune and when they do, its a few turns of a tension screw to get em back to good. Again, fixed works for you so cool and I certainly wont change you mind on wanting to use derailleurs, but please dont think they fall out of tune so often that you need to work on them 'all the time' as you claim.



Good luck with the bike pushing. Genuinely, I hope it goes well as you have a better outlook than I on that sort of thing.
This discussion is getting nowhere and has nothing to do with the purpose of the thread. So I'm out of here. Be happy with whatever you need to climb. Don't get too soft with those gears or someday I''l be traveling with an E-bike. Goodbye.
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Old 07-31-17, 03:07 PM   #21
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If your goal is minimal maintenance, get a belt drive. I do not mind some maintenence, I use chains. But the belt owners always cite maintenance as one reason they got them.

I went to a couple cyclocross races as a spectator. I was amazed at the mud on some of the bikes.
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Old 08-01-17, 10:34 AM   #22
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Best to know what cogs are made when choosing the rear IGH.
Gates Carbon Drive? System for Bicycles | Gates Carbon Drive?
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Old 08-01-17, 12:19 PM   #23
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On word for our derailleur hater.

Friction

7 speed free or 8 speed cassette with a clamp on FD is so forgiving. However, I'm eyeballing a world troller with an IGH.

Yes I had a derailleur die on me while on tour. Oh no... I was left with 48x28, 38x28, and 28x28.
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Old 08-08-17, 01:57 AM   #24
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On word for our derailleur hater.

Friction

7 speed free or 8 speed cassette with a clamp on FD is so forgiving. However, I'm eyeballing a world troller with an IGH.

Yes I had a derailleur die on me while on tour. Oh no... I was left with 48x28, 38x28, and 28x28.
Faster to walk than ride with 28x28.
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Old 08-08-17, 02:24 AM   #25
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My lowest gear is 15". My partners is lower again. Because knees. There is a big difference between mashing unloaded and loaded.
I'm contemplating selling the Rohloff I've got, I made a shopping bike out of bits I had lying around and it rides heaps better than the super expensive Rohloff, imagine what it would feel like if I actually used parts made for each other, not a derailleur from 1990, levers from 1997, a cassette made from the leftovers of other cassettes and a chain of indeterminate origins. Oh and I picked the wrong chain (KMC Z8RB) for my last tour, it ate the Rohloff sprocket in 2200 km. Because it was the old model hub I ended up having to buy the special Rohloff tool to remove the sprocket. Made it an expensive exercise.
But hey, what do I know, I just tour....
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