reshaping Brooks B17 before tour
 

Hey guys- I'm doing my first tour in September from Seattle to Berkeley, CA and had a question about saddle comfort. I left my B17 out in the rain once and rode it wet. Since doing so I noticed that the places where my sit bones lie have become depressed. What was once a springy feel of the saddle has become less so as the travel available to the sit bones has decreased and they sort of sit on the rails. This is all fine and dandy on rides I've done lately that are ~70 miles but I'm wondering if there is a quick fix to pop those depressions out and improve comfort for my tour. I plan on ~60 miles per day.

Advice appreciated!

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v4...n/IMG_3198.jpg

additional angles

More fore-aft tension & lacing might help a bit but from what I've read fixing stretched-out leather saddles is problematic. Ironic that England is rainy but Brooks often change unpredictably in wet weather. Some tourists post photos of massively dented & swayed Brooks & swear they're comfortable, heh.

High risk technique, wet it, stretch it, and dry it out. Less risk, DBFs try to re-tension it and punch some skirt holes and lace it.
Next time I can recommend treating the saddle with Nik Wax Aqueous wax a few times. I've done my saddle and it's effectively waterproof now, without any softening, as it doesn't contain anything animal. Even better, you can apply it when the saddle is already wet, it actually works better that way.

Trev, quick question: Would you recommend Nikwax instead of Proofide, or in addition to? Is it the cream Nikwax in the tube to which you are referring? I'm experimenting with saddles right now, and considering getting another Brooks. :foo:

Instead of Proofride. Paint it on with a paint brush and let it soak in for a while, and then wipe off the excess before it completely dries to a wax. The first treatment will darken the saddle a bit. Just keep on repeating it every few weeks of use. As the saddle gets more and more water proof you'll notice only the high wear areas where your sit bones are will take any up. Also worth doing underneath a few times, it stops road spray soaking in from the bottom. It's not a magic bullet, riding in the rain for hours will still eventually get the leather wet, so better to cover up, but at least if you forget and leave your bike in the rain for a few hours the saddle won't be soaked. If you do get the saddle wet, it's a good time to treat it as well, it soaks in better to wet leather and the leather dries out much nicer, even when heated.
Really good for shoes too, especially hiking boots. It does take a number of treatments to build up full water resistance though.

That's what they look like broken in. You just sped up the process a bit.

A quarter turn of the nut will tighten it a bit. But otherwise it should be fine.

I would move the saddle back a bit as you look as if you sit way back on it.

Hmm well I have a Professional on another bike without the divots and it is more comfortable than the B17 now. I suppose I can tour on the Pro.

The saddle is all the way back on the rails since they narrow near the nose. Perhaps I can try a seat post with greater set back. Right now the solution is to tip is back a little more but that has the added effect of causing me to slide back onto the rail.

I'm riding a century on it Saturday and can re[ass]es its feel after the quarter turn.

Thanks others on the input but for now I'm not going to attempt a risky reshape.

Since the saddle is not sagging much, I do not think tensioning will do much, but a quarter turn won't hurt. I think lacing will not do anything either.

I always try to get a saddle broken in before I put on any proofide, as the proofide is a good water repellent and it slows down the rate that the saddle will change shape. And for that reason I am very careful to make sure that my saddle is never out in any rain before it has had several coats of proofide.

Bring a waterproof cover for your saddle. Or at a minimum a plastic bag. I put a waterproof cover over my saddle every night to keep the dew off of it on a bike tour and am careful to always put it on quickly when the rain starts. If you do not have fenders, the rear wheel can throw water onto the underside of the saddle so when you start to apply proofide apply that to the underside too.

The way I have seen a reshape done, is to loosen the tensioner, then soak the leather, some then stuff the underside with newspaper to get rid of the dimples, then let it dry in the sun. As it dries, the leather will shrink a bit back to shape.

Some put it in the oven on a low heat, the lowest it will go. If I did the oven, I would heat it to the lowest setting, turn it off, then put the seat in.

This is the correct way to do it. But it is only temporary, a long ride with a lot of sweat, or a little rain will distort the saddle again. Don't put your saddle in the oven. It's perfectly safe if you do it correctly, but Youtube has plenty of videos of "perfectly safe" activities gone wrong.

I stopped using the Brooks Swift models because when they did fully break in, my sit bones were above the metal rails, making for an uncomfortable ride. The standard B17 is the perfect width for me, my last one was far more broken in that yours, but was wonderfully comfortable as my sit bones were toward the inside of the rails. Unfortunately, the saddle and the bike it was attached to were stolen. My replacement saddle has been breaking in for a couple more months now, and should be ready for by big tour in October. It's more than comfortable enough now, but will get even better in time.

Honestly, that saddle looks really comfy just the way it is.

I am not the OP. I was only adding to the discussion.

Yes, there really is no need to put the seat in the oven to dry it, although, it can be done safely. If you don't feel you can do it safely, then never attempt it. I use the oven to dry out electronics, a method my dad used in his electronics shop. If you do it right, it is really no different than a device being left in a hot car in the Sun. The advantage to the oven vs the car, is you can control the temperature better, and there will be less humidity...until of course you add the wet seat.

The Sun method works fine.

A lot of sweat should not hurt a Brooks, a lot of rain will.

A friend of mine that I used to backpack with put some waterproofing on his backpacking boots, then put them in the oven to warm them up to help it soak in. He did not turn the oven on, the oven was an old one with a pilot light so it had the heat of a candle flame, no more than that. But, someone else then turned the oven on to preheat it for baking, ... ... ...

To my eyes, that saddle looks ruined. I think it's new saddle time.

At this point you have nothing to lose, so try whatever to salvage some usable life out of the B17. I have tensioned and drilled & tied a B17 in the past, but your saddle appears beyond saving.

I agree, the sit-bone area looks very concave, one couldn't slide fore-aft & it also negates B17 laterally-flat design that helps prevent perineum pressure. Brooks are supposed to be the bees' knees so why do they require all the modding folklore? All 3 Brooks I've tried didn't fit including a laced B17. OTOH only 1 of ~7 synthetic saddles was a glaringly bad fit & even that one was better than any of the Brooks up to 60 km.

And this is the perfect time to use some Nikwax on it, while it's wet... will also stop it from drying out too quickly

No, because you need it to dry out in order to shrink.

You're preaching to the choir. Brooks' saddles are popular and many users praise them, but I can't share their enthusiasm. Comfort-wise I found my std men's B-17 to have been average or below average. My thoughts on Brooks in general and more specifically the B-17 follow:

1. Antiquated design subject to premature catastrophic failure (see OP, or this recent thread).

2. Inordinate care requirements. Always waterproof cover overnight. Apply Proofide ONLY, 1 tsp annually - a substance made primarily from tallow, to ensure the Brooks leather is properly seasoned for the local wildlife's dinner.

3. Uncomfortable, long break-in period required (some users never achieve break-in). Nothing matches the new saddle experience of a rock-hard, slick-as-snot Brooks saddle. Raise the front so you won't slide off at hard stops!

4. 2-4 times heavier than most conventional saddles (500-850g vs 200-300g).

5. Rear width interferes with leg movement and fore-aft shifting, wider than necessary for sit-bone support. B17s are intended for very upright bicycling posture.

6. If everything goes right, they still are shorter-lived than conventional saddles due to inexorible sag. The tensioned leather design sags more than conventional saddles with frames and padding for support.

7. As saddles go, Brooks is not inexpensive, especially when you get away from the B-17 variants.

Bollocks to many of these points.

My Imperial B17 is very dented yet it is still comfortable to ride on long days. If it not a problem, don't fix it.

IMO and experience it's a mistake to make leather waterproof. Leather by it nature is water resistant. Every time you ride the bike the leather saddle gets wet from perspiration. It needs to dry. Waterproofing leather will clog the pores of the leather and will not let it dry. Mold will start. Waterproofed leather will also get wet anyway, from humidity, fog etc., then it won't be able to dry out.

I rode the Marin century yesterday with 8,000+ ft of elevation. I was constantly readjusting my position on the saddle to alleviate pressure and occasionally experienced numbness. This is not at all the experience I had before the saddle got wet nor that I have with my Professional. I will be replacing the saddle before starting my tour with the Professional or a Selle Italia Turbo from the 80s that fits my hindquarters quite nicely.

I consider this to be an expensive lesson learned- it only takes one thirty minute ride on a soaked Brooks to destroy it. I should note that I did not treat it except for some Proofhide on the underside before it got wet. Nor did I have fenders.

One reply suggested that I may be sitting too far back on the saddle. This certainly seems possible as it is all the way back in the rails and still the sit bones rest on the rails. Could also be due to angling the front of the saddle. I'll be keeping a lookout for a setback 26.8mm seat post.

Thanks for your input guys.

I am sorry for your experience, but it confirms by decision to keep plastic covers in the panniers just in case.

Brooks threads can be about the most opinionated. I have bought three new in the last 6 or so years. My conclusion is that like everything, brooks are not for everyone. Comfortable right out of the box, but for me, they look like the OP's pics within 200 miles, and within a year two had hit the limit of adjustment despite always being covered and treated, and the third actually split at the nose before hitting the end of the threads. Threads were only tightened when the leather was about hitting the post.
And before everyone chimes in with the "you did not do it right" its only the newer brooks that have done this. The two saddles that I bought before the resurgence of their popularity are very broken in, but at 15 to 20 years old are only about 1/2 way to the end of their tension threads. Luckily I have some tack experience, and have stretched new thicker elk hide leather on my old rails, and the rails of several brooks that friends were throwing away.

I mostly agree with the statements in post 20. The refutations in post 21 are all fine and good, but are just as based on personal opinion as any argument for or against can get.

In the last few years all my tours have been on synthetic saddles. Old Vettas, Selle Italias, and Avocets that are at least 25 years old when I got them have lasted longer than any leather saddle purchased recently. Again, thats personal, I might have gotten lemons or else the recent tanning techniques used don't work well with my sweat. Fortunately a certain Oval concepts saddle fits me like nothing else I have ever ridden, they are cheap, and I discovered them in a take off bin while replacing the flyer with the split leather nose.