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Old 09-13-17, 10:51 AM   #51
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So I took the REI ADV 3.1 on a couple of mixed types of rides and think that I would prefer brifters for being able to keep 2 hands on the handlebars at all times. This showed especially when on the shoulder close to traffic and I swerve a little when shifting on long inclined roads.

With that in mind, I am starting to think of upgrading to a 29er and the practicality of a 29er for paved trails, as well as off road performance without suspension.

I have my eye on the Salsa Fargo, with the ability to put road / hybrid tires on for better paved stuff when needed.

With it being rigid without suspension, when would it be limited off road vs a full suspension mountain bike? Pretty much, What is the boundary of needing a full fledged mountain bike vs a rigid 29er with 2.4" tires?
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Old 09-13-17, 11:26 AM   #52
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With it being rigid without suspension, when would it be limited off road vs a full suspension mountain bike? Pretty much, What is the boundary of needing a full fledged mountain bike vs a rigid 29er with 2.4" tires?
Take the tire width (say 2.4"), multiply by pi ≈ 7.5 inches. That's the max size of rocks in a river bed you can ride over without suspension.
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Old 09-13-17, 08:59 PM   #53
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...I am starting to think of upgrading to ...


(N+3)/month? You are fast in acquiring bicycles.
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Old 09-13-17, 09:14 PM   #54
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Take the tire width (say 2.4"), multiply by pi ≈ 7.5 inches. That's the max size of rocks in a river bed you can ride over without suspension.
Oh ok, good to know. So is the Salsa Fargo a good choice for versatility, with the ability to roll fast on paved roads if I put skinnier tires on?
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Old 09-13-17, 09:38 PM   #55
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Oh ok, good to know. So is the Salsa Fargo a good choice for versatility, with the ability to roll fast on paved roads if I put skinnier tires on?
Sure you can put fast tires on it but I think a Fargo keeps you fairly upright so you can't escape the aero drag. You can't have everything, but I think a Fargo is a good all-rounder.
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Old 09-13-17, 09:39 PM   #56
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(N+3)/month? You are fast in acquiring bicycles.
He's a fast learner.
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Old 09-13-17, 10:11 PM   #57
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(N+3)/month? You are fast in acquiring bicycles.
Haha yes...it is driving me bonkers. Good thing is I can actually return the REI ADV 3.1 and seems like a good choice to do that exchange for the Fargo.
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Old 09-13-17, 10:14 PM   #58
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Sure you can put fast tires on it but I think a Fargo keeps you fairly upright so you can't escape the aero drag. You can't have everything, but I think a Fargo is a good all-rounder.
It would keep me upright with the Woodchipper 2 handlebar? I thought that would help escape the aero drag.

I guess it might not as much as a dedicated road bike, but hopefully would still be good.
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Old 09-14-17, 04:47 AM   #59
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It would keep me upright with the Woodchipper 2 handlebar? I thought that would help escape the aero drag.

I guess it might not as much as a dedicated road bike, but hopefully would still be good.
This is touring. How fast do you need to go? Aero drag isn't much of an issue in this instance imho.

I applaud your choice of a Fargo. I love my ECR but I also thirst for a 29er pavement bike. The Treks are lackluster to my eyes, but a Surly Ogre or a Salsa Fargo would fill the bill nicely, and they'd be made of STEEL!
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Old 09-14-17, 08:16 AM   #60
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Haha yes...it is driving me bonkers. Good thing is I can actually return the REI ADV 3.1 and seems like a good choice to do that exchange for the Fargo.
Ever heard of Gevenalle shifters? A set of those would allow you to shift from the hoods and still keep the mountain front derailleur.
Really easy to use.

https://www.gevenalle.com/product/audax/ $150 and you could use the bar end shifters you already have.
Or buy the full set for $200 and just sell your current bar end shifters on craigslist or ebay.


Super easy to use, simple to set up/fix, shift from hoods, and you dont need to then buy an entirely different bike.
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Old 09-14-17, 12:12 PM   #61
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Ever heard of Gevenalle shifters? A set of those would allow you to shift from the hoods and still keep the mountain front derailleur.
Really easy to use.

https://www.gevenalle.com/product/audax/ $150 and you could use the bar end shifters you already have.
Or buy the full set for $200 and just sell your current bar end shifters on craigslist or ebay.


Super easy to use, simple to set up/fix, shift from hoods, and you dont need to then buy an entirely different bike.
Thanks for the link. I have heard of them before but haven't looked into them until today. Aside from the shifters, I have been thinking heavily of benefits of going from 3x10 to 2x10 (if any), frame that can handle wider tires, and anything else that might be better quality for spending that extra money.
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Old 09-14-17, 12:15 PM   #62
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This is touring. How fast do you need to go? Aero drag isn't much of an issue in this instance imho.

I applaud your choice of a Fargo. I love my ECR but I also thirst for a 29er pavement bike. The Treks are lackluster to my eyes, but a Surly Ogre or a Salsa Fargo would fill the bill nicely, and they'd be made of STEEL!

Thanks for the applaud, maybe I am on the right track!

For speed, I would just want to keep up with my paved trail friends on their 700c hybrids. Sustained speeds of 15mph or so, and ability to climb without crushing my leg fatigue over 50 mile days.
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Old 09-14-17, 06:02 PM   #63
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Haha yes...it is driving me bonkers. Good thing is I can actually return the REI ADV 3.1 and seems like a good choice to do that exchange for the Fargo.
Do you have friends with bikes that ride the way your are thinking of? Try their bikes!
The internet is a very two-sided place for my wallet. On the one hand it is a good place to exchange a lot of experience, learn a lot, and socialize in different ways. But it also is extremely good at convincing me that I urgently need product XYZ, it will make me super happy and it will realize all my cycling dreams. Until I'm back in my workshop and realize that other more basic issues are more important and I could also get by with much less bling or a fraction of these expenses.
I don't know how it is for you, but at this point, for the money's sake I would take a step back and try more before buying.
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Old 09-14-17, 08:06 PM   #64
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Do you have friends with bikes that ride the way your are thinking of? Try their bikes!
The internet is a very two-sided place for my wallet. On the one hand it is a good place to exchange a lot of experience, learn a lot, and socialize in different ways. But it also is extremely good at convincing me that I urgently need product XYZ, it will make me super happy and it will realize all my cycling dreams. Until I'm back in my workshop and realize that other more basic issues are more important and I could also get by with much less bling or a fraction of these expenses.
I don't know how it is for you, but at this point, for the money's sake I would take a step back and try more before buying.
Nope, unfortunately all of my friends, including my gf, only do paved trails and roads...but I'm hoping to meet new friends soon via methods like meetup.com. the catch 22 is I need a bike to get out there and meet people.

I strongly agree that money shouldn't be thrown away by buying something that I'd later regret. That's why I'm currently only looking to buy from REI for their 1 year return policy. And they happen to sell the Fargo, but no Surly bikes or Niner bikes etc.
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Old 09-14-17, 11:55 PM   #65
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So I took the REI ADV 3.1 on a couple of mixed types of rides and think that I would prefer brifters for being able to keep 2 hands on the handlebars at all times. This showed especially when on the shoulder close to traffic and I swerve a little when shifting on long inclined roads.

With that in mind, I am starting to think of upgrading to a 29er and the practicality of a 29er for paved trails, as well as off road performance without suspension.

I have my eye on the Salsa Fargo, with the ability to put road / hybrid tires on for better paved stuff when needed.

With it being rigid without suspension, when would it be limited off road vs a full suspension mountain bike? Pretty much, What is the boundary of needing a full fledged mountain bike vs a rigid 29er with 2.4" tires?
REI also sells the intriguing Diamondback Haanjo EXP carbon which is only $100 more than the Salsa Fargo 29er. Haanjo EXP carbon is lightest production touring frame AFAIK yet allows 53 mm+ width tires + fenders/racks. If one can overlook the bar-end shifters it's a fast & versatile bike IMHO.
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Old 09-15-17, 09:06 PM   #66
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Thank you for your detailed reply. I realistically wouldn't mind spending $3000 for a bike that can do it all, or $1500-2000ish for a bike that can do most of it all so it leaves room to buy a dedicated MTB also.

Like a Salsa (Fargo or Cutthroat) or Surly (Karate Monkey or Krampus) bike? Are they good for being able to roll well on paved roads and also tackle dirt touring with some tough stuff?

It seems like all the bikepackers have a Salsa or a Surly, and my ignorance to the subject is what I'm trying to understand...
Kona Sutra LTD for $2000. Really good bike for that price. I have the Kona TI and love it, but the LTD rides very nice for much less $$.
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Old 09-18-17, 09:08 AM   #67
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Well guys I took the plunge and ordered a 2018 Salsa Fargo in Cream White for $360 off of the MSRP of $1800. The deal was good, so going to try it out. Also having the LBS upgrade the brake cables for $80 per their recommendation of being worth it.

Hopefully this is the one that I will be happy with. It should be ready on 9/28 and will post back after some usage.

Now it comes down to what should my spare wheel sets be for it, since I can go as big as a PLUS 3" tire, or skinny as a roadie tire for communiting.
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Old 09-18-17, 09:50 AM   #68
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Well guys I took the plunge and ordered a 2018 Salsa Fargo in Cream White for $360 off of the MSRP of $1800. The deal was good, so going to try it out. Also having the LBS upgrade the brake cables for $80 per their recommendation of being worth it.

Hopefully this is the one that I will be happy with. It should be ready on 9/28 and will post back after some usage.

Now it comes down to what should my spare wheel sets be for it, since I can go as big as a PLUS 3" tire, or skinny as a roadie tire for communiting.
Thats a great deal!
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Old 09-18-17, 11:15 AM   #69
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Also having the LBS upgrade the brake cables for $80 per their recommendation of being worth it.
Is that what a LBS charges for new cables? Seems high to me, even if it includes new housings.
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Old 09-18-17, 02:28 PM   #70
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Is that what a LBS charges for new cables? Seems high to me, even if it includes new housings.
Yeah that's the cost for the part and they are installing them for free as a courtesy.

I blindly took their word for it aside from him saying that it's worth $80 when I asked, and that it will make the brakes more sensitive and less squishy / more responsive.

I tried to look at my order number to see what the brake cable make and model is, but it just says misc part. I'll get the details and post back when I pick up the bike.
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Old 09-18-17, 02:50 PM   #71
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Is that what a LBS charges for new cables? Seems high to me, even if it includes new housings.
Hopefully its compressionless brake housing. Anything other than this is just unjustifiable in my mind- for both cost and claimed necessity. https://www.amazon.com/Jagwire-Kevla.../dp/B00KXQIY8Q

There is no justification for the shop to sell such an expensive bike with anything less than quality lined brake housing, so the only real update would be compressionless, which ive heard improves disc brakes.
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Old 09-18-17, 03:44 PM   #72
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Hopefully its compressionless brake housing. Anything other than this is just unjustifiable in my mind- for both cost and claimed necessity. https://www.amazon.com/Jagwire-Kevla.../dp/B00KXQIY8Q

There is no justification for the shop to sell such an expensive bike with anything less than quality lined brake housing, so the only real update would be compressionless, which ive heard improves disc brakes.
I found it after you helped me jog my memory of him saying "compressionless". This is exactly what the package looked like, where I assume it is not only braking, but also shifter cables as well:

Yokozuna Premium Cables, Housing and Brake Pads

What do you guys think? Worth it?
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Old 09-18-17, 07:56 PM   #73
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I bought Jagwire compressionless for Disc Trucker brakes & derailleurs, figuring it would help a lot since DT, like Fargo, has full-length housing. After a year the rear brake cable housing ruptured at rear ferrule spot. I assumed I might have used wrong ferrule or something so replaced with compressionless again; later read Sheldon's info that one should use compressionless housing for shift cables (indexing works better) but not for brakes due to chance of catastrophic failure. OTOH it notes Nokon compressionless housing/cable can be used for brakes due to the different design.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cables.html
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Old 09-18-17, 09:51 PM   #74
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I found it after you helped me jog my memory of him saying "compressionless". This is exactly what the package looked like, where I assume it is not only braking, but also shifter cables as well
Ah makes more sense now. No clue if it is better, but it definitely sounds more reasonable than them tossing in a couple of $5 cables and charging you $70 for five minutes of labor that I originally had in my head
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Old 09-19-17, 02:22 PM   #75
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I bought Jagwire compressionless for Disc Trucker brakes & derailleurs, figuring it would help a lot since DT, like Fargo, has full-length housing. After a year the rear brake cable housing ruptured at rear ferrule spot. I assumed I might have used wrong ferrule or something so replaced with compressionless again; later read Sheldon's info that one should use compressionless housing for shift cables (indexing works better) but not for brakes due to chance of catastrophic failure. OTOH it notes Nokon compressionless housing/cable can be used for brakes due to the different design.

https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cables.html
Compressionless shift hpusong shpuldnt be used for brakes because brake cables stress the hpusong too much. Thats what the sheldon article discusses.

But since that article and update, there is now compressionless brake housing which uses kevlar to hold everything together and keep the housing from busting out.
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