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Old 09-05-17, 11:56 PM   #26
LeeG
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Gotta say when I was racing no one used a Brooks. And we rode a lot. A leather hammock is a simple design from the 1800's but even then they had designs that look very much like modern ones that reduced perineal pressure.

1898 CYCLE SADDLES: The Anatomical Saddle | The Online Bicycle Museum
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Old 09-06-17, 04:36 AM   #27
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Neat link. Thanks for that, very interesting.
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Old 09-06-17, 04:39 AM   #28
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Always wondered about the others. Any worth a try, any worth staying away from? I see the Gyes and Cardiffs regularly at much more attractive prices than the Brooks, it is more of a name-premium or more of a you get what you pay for situation?
Those Lepper saddles look like they would be super-comfy.
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Old 09-06-17, 09:39 AM   #29
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Always wondered about the others. Any worth a try, any worth staying away from? I see the Gyes and Cardiffs regularly at much more attractive prices than the Brooks, it is more of a name-premium or more of a you get what you pay for situation?
(I've ridden tensioned leather saddles since the 1970s, mostly Brooks Pros. Also, I've read consumer Reports for 50 years, and know that while you mostly get what you pay for, sometimes a product is expensive for no discernible reason, while other times a product punches well above its category.)

AFAIK, Cardiff, Dia Compe, Fyxation, Papillionaire, Rivet, Spa, Torelli and Velo Orange are all manufactured by Gyes. Rivet seems to have their own design and spec that Gyes builds to. I have a Gyes GS-19L which is beautifully made, comfortable (for me) and aging well.

I also have a Selle Anatomica Titanico NSX, which is sort of an outlier in the Anatomica range. Nice saddle.

I'm of the opinion that Sella Italia and Selle Monte Grappa saw the kind of money Selle Royal was getting for Brooks leather saddles and brought some of their old leather models back. I've never personally seen their products here in Parts Unknown.

The Berthouds design and features look like the cats pajamas, and at their sales prices out-snob the Brooks by a fair amount. Beyond that, I know nothing about them.

Compared to Brooks, Lepper of the Netherlands is a bit of an upstart, only getting in the leather saddle business in 1897. They've just introduced a new model, the Tourer, which looks to split the difference between a solid top leather saddle and those with a mail slot cut in them.

Persons is an old American cycle supply company. Fun fact #1: Persons saddles were options on the Schwinn Paramounts of the 1930s. Today's Persons saddles are manufactured in India of water buffalo leather. Fun fact #2: leather tanning was possibly invented in India as much as 9000 years ago. I bought a Persons #77 Deluxe to try and liked it so well I bought a second one for another bike.

The Tops tensioned leather saddle I bought to try was wretched.

Last edited by tcs; 09-06-17 at 10:15 AM.
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Old 09-06-17, 10:05 AM   #30
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Three Men on the Bummel by Jerome K. Jerome, 1900:

"Then there are saddles," I went on--I wished to get this lesson home to him. "Can you think of any saddle ever advertised that you have not tried?"

He said: "It has been an idea of mine that the right saddle is to be found."

I said: "You give up that idea; this is an imperfect world of joy and sorrow mingled. There may be a better land where bicycle saddles are made out of rainbow, stuffed with cloud; in this world the simplest thing is to get used to something hard. There was that saddle you bought in Birmingham; it was divided in the middle, and looked like a pair of kidneys."

He said: "You mean that one constructed on anatomical principles."

"Very likely," I replied. "The box you bought it in had a picture on the cover, representing a sitting skeleton--or rather that part of a skeleton which does sit."

He said: "It was quite correct; it showed you the true position of the--"

I said: "We will not go into details; the picture always seemed to me indelicate."

He said: "Medically speaking, it was right."

"Possibly," I said, "for a man who rode in nothing but his bones. I only know that I tried it myself, and that to a man who wore flesh it was agony. Every time you went over a stone or a rut it nipped you; it was like riding on an irritable lobster. You rode that for a month."

"I thought it only right to give it a fair trial," he answered.
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Old 09-06-17, 05:02 PM   #31
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mr apc, you dont say if you are 26, or 66, or where you live. There are some bike stores in North America that have "test" seats, that you can use for a week or whatever, you might try asking around for one that would have this policy.

re your age, I ask simply because you say that you are new to cycling, so you ought to get out regularly and start slowly to build up some bicycling muscles, not overly long rides, and go from there.

good luck and I hope you find that you enjoy cycling, its a wonderful sport and activity.
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Old 09-08-17, 05:57 PM   #32
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What, if any, problems have you experienced with the stock Ovals Concept Pavement saddle that comes standard? Should ride around with that, make minor adjustments (front/back, height, and tilt) to find your sweet spot. We are assuming the bike fit is correct of course from the beginning. Then decide after a few half or full century rides if you need a new saddle.

If you are set on a Brooks B17, then consider the "aged" or Imperial models strictly for the ability to lace the sides without having to punch out the holes yourself. The aged model leather is more flexible out of the box and will break in faster, BUT you should break in your Brooks "before" going on a tour of any length. Otherwise, you will be stopping a lot more or buying padding covers to ease the pain.

Lacing will control the expansion of the sides so there's less rubbing on your inner thighs. If this happens, your body will unconsciously move forward to find a more comfortable position when pedaling, but you may cause other problems/pain because you are riding mostly on the horn of the saddle.

Everybody has different sit bone locations and pain/comfort thresholds. You just have to find the right combination (saddle and saddle adjustment) for you.

Strongly recommend many close to home medium to long rides that can give you and your body a better idea how long/far per day you can go at this particular moment and how much additional recovery time you need after sleeping. If anything goes wrong, you are close to help (medical or mechanical) or catch a bus/train back home. Also it gives you an idea or 2 what tools and/or food/esp water you need. Then try adding panniers or a moderate load to your bike to get used to the handling and what effort you need or what weight distribution balance is needed for you to keep control of and what speed limit you need to set for yourself for any particular load out. Can simply use your bike to go grocery shopping to get experience.

Last edited by Sci-Fi; 09-08-17 at 06:11 PM.
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Old 09-08-17, 06:42 PM   #33
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I find it amazingly interesting when folks respond to an inquiry posted in this forum. APC65 asked a very specific question - B17 or B17 Imperial. Personally, I would have not responded in I had no B17 saddle (I have three - a used B17 Standard and two B17 pro team- a black and brown). The B17 Standard is a used one, someone did the job for me, unfortunately, I am not able to comment, because I still need to get the saddle settle-in with my anatomy. The two new B17 pro team have just been acquired, hence I can not make any useful comments. What I want to say here is, if you do not have an experience what is being asked, just let it go. You are making it harder for the individual to evaluate what he likes and suit him best. Please do not take this comment personal. Tomorrow it will be you asking for input/advice and this kind of feedback will frustrate you!!!

Cheers
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Old 09-08-17, 08:36 PM   #34
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Originally Posted by Sci-Fi View Post
If you are set on a Brooks B17, then consider the "aged" or Imperial models strictly for the ability to lace the sides without having to punch out the holes yourself. The aged model leather is more flexible out of the box and will break in faster, BUT you should break in your Brooks "before" going on a tour of any length. Otherwise, you will be stopping a lot more or buying padding covers to ease the pain.

Lacing will control the expansion of the sides so there's less rubbing on your inner thighs. If this happens, your body will unconsciously move forward to find a more comfortable position when pedaling, but you may cause other problems/pain because you are riding mostly on the horn of the saddle.
+1 to think about lacing. I found it fairly easy to drill 3 holes/side on B17 & lace but OTOH pre-drilled is a nice convenience. My thighs are skinny yet still rubbed a bit pre-lacing.

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I find it amazingly interesting when folks respond to an inquiry posted in this forum. APC65 asked a very specific question - B17 or B17 Imperial. Personally, I would have not responded in I had no B17 saddle (I have three - a used B17 Standard and two B17 pro team- a black and brown). The B17 Standard is a used one, someone did the job for me, unfortunately, I am not able to comment, because I still need to get the saddle settle-in with my anatomy. The two new B17 pro team have just been acquired, hence I can not make any useful comments. What I want to say here is, if you do not have an experience what is being asked, just let it go. You are making it harder for the individual to evaluate what he likes and suit him best. Please do not take this comment personal. Tomorrow it will be you asking for input/advice and this kind of feedback will frustrate you!!!
Cheers
APC65 wrote "any advice/recommendations (to include other saddles)".
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Old 09-09-17, 06:08 AM   #35
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What I want to say here is, if you do not have an experience what is being asked, just let it go. You are making it harder for the individual to evaluate what he likes and suit him best. Please do not take this comment personal. Tomorrow it will be you asking for input/advice and this kind of feedback will frustrate you!
First of all, welcome to BF. Secondly, you need to understand that there are a lot of people here who have a lot of practical bicycle experience both hobby and professional. I encourage all comments and conjecture. You never know when someone's simple comment could spark an idea or present a whole new line of thought.Try to visualize that forums like this are like a salad bar. Take what you want and leave the rest.
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Old 09-09-17, 07:01 AM   #36
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I have a brooks team pro saddle. It took about 1k miles to break in, but now I don't even know its there (sign of a great saddle). I also have a B17 Imperial which was super comfortable right out of the box, but the leather on the team pro is better and will last longer. For anyone who has or is thinking of buying a brooks I would recommend an ass-saver brooks shield. Its a foldable rear fender that will stow under the seat when not in use. when needed it will clip in to seat rails and extend under and behind seat, protecting bottom of seat and your back from tire spray.
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Old 09-10-17, 05:01 AM   #37
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Gotta say when I was racing no one used a Brooks. And we rode a lot. A leather hammock is a simple design from the 1800's but even then they had designs that look very much like modern ones that reduced perineal pressure.
No one used a Brooks when I was racing either, but then we all wore high-end shorts which did much of the work. When I would get a new Selle San Marco, it would cost about $70. A pair of Assos Prosline bib shorts was $170.

Your average Brooks fan is not going to be wearing high quality cycling shorts, and may not use cycling shorts at all. My Brooks saddles can be ridden all day in comfort in cargo shorts or pants.
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Old 09-10-17, 05:31 AM   #38
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No one used a Brooks when I was racing either, but then we all wore high-end shorts which did much of the work. When I would get a new Selle San Marco, it would cost about $70. A pair of Assos Prosline bib shorts was $170.

Your average Brooks fan is not going to be wearing high quality cycling shorts, and may not use cycling shorts at all. My Brooks saddles can be ridden all day in comfort in cargo shorts or pants.
Very astute, accurate and pretty darn important point. Shorts padding and quality certainly play a part, along with riding style etc.
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Old 09-11-17, 12:26 AM   #39
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I do have to admit that when I was actively cyclocrossing and roadbiking I wore padded biking shorts. Since I started touring, I tend to carry more "stuff" and like riding in my cargo shorts. With my Brooks saddle, I don't miss the padded bike pants.
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Old 09-11-17, 06:07 AM   #40
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I do have to admit that when I was actively cyclocrossing and roadbiking I wore padded biking shorts. Since I started touring, I tend to carry more "stuff" and like riding in my cargo shorts. With my Brooks saddle, I don't miss the padded bike pants.
I realize that this works for some folks, but I still wear my padded bike shorts with my Brooks, and on a long ride, I still notice a difference with better comfort with my thicker, better quality ones compared to my really thin, worn out ones that I still wear for commuting etc.
I could ride commuting without I guess, but still prefer to have bike shorts on as I often end up riding fast so the fit and sweat absorbtion of padded bike shorts still works better for me.

but again, whatever works eh?
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Old 09-11-17, 06:51 AM   #41
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Your right! Typically when we are touring or doing longer rides, we ride at about 14mph which is not a workout pace. If I were riding faster or against a clock, I certainly would wear more bike appropriate clothing!
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Old 09-11-17, 09:39 PM   #42
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I do have to admit that when I was actively cyclocrossing and roadbiking I wore padded biking shorts. Since I started touring, I tend to carry more "stuff" and like riding in my cargo shorts. With my Brooks saddle, I don't miss the padded bike pants.
While I haven't yet found a proper-fitting Brooks I've been impressed that on medium-distance rides I've never had sit-bone discomfort with them incl the Pro. Bike short padding can actually interfere with the fit, note that old chamois short liners were thin & not really intended for padding.
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Old 09-12-17, 07:54 AM   #43
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i prefer the b17. the imperial was not the relief i thought it would be. i do better without the cut out and being a fairly big guy. 5' 11" and 200lbs, the regular b17 lasts longer for me. you will want to be patient with finding the proper height and angle. i prefer the nose just slightly elevated. as for break in i dont really feel they need much. mine get comfortable in the first hundred miles. the key for me is getting the angle correct for my body.

the saddle in the pic is actually a flyer. kind of a b17 with springs. if i was buying new today i'd buy the b17.
Nice bike!
I like the Brooks saddles, but they are not for everyone. Be prepared to try out a few and don't be disappointed if the Forst one is not THE one...
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Old 09-12-17, 08:06 AM   #44
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What I want to say here is, if you do not have an experience what is being asked, just let it go. You are making it harder for the individual to evaluate what he likes and suit him best. Please do not take this comment personal. Tomorrow it will be you asking for input/advice and this kind of feedback will frustrate you!!!
Threads can and do evolve and take on a life of their own. It is the nature of the beast.
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