Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Touring
Reload this Page >

Interstate system of bike trails?

Notices
Touring Have a dream to ride a bike across your state, across the country, or around the world? Self-contained or fully supported? Trade ideas, adventures, and more in our bicycle touring forum.

Interstate system of bike trails?

Old 09-06-17, 09:15 PM
  #1  
Newbie
Thread Starter
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: northern illinois
Posts: 45
Mentioned: 0 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 36 Post(s)
Liked 14 Times in 8 Posts
Interstate system of bike trails?

I don't like riding/touring on roads having to compete with automobiles. Most of the cyclists I know don't either. There has to be a better way.


We need an interstate system of paved trails for pedestrians and non-motorized vehicles. Maybe we could finance and support such a system with a use tax like vehicle plates on automobiles. Pedestrians could use it for free.


Along with a permanent interstate trail system would come business support. I would like to see such a system in my lifetime. Maybe someone out there is already building such a system?


My local trails are heavily used. I do at least 50% of my weekly shopping on bicycle. I see many doing the same. Mixing fun, healthy exercise and practical activities is appealing, if we can feel safe in the process.


Would you use and support an interstate system of bike trails?
dayco is offline  
Old 09-06-17, 09:17 PM
  #2  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: New Rochelle, NY
Posts: 38,544

Bikes: too many bikes from 1967 10s (5x2)Frejus to a Sumitomo Ti/Chorus aluminum 10s (10x2), plus one non-susp mtn bike I use as my commuter

Mentioned: 139 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 5703 Post(s)
Liked 2,432 Times in 1,345 Posts
There's already an effort to do this in various places. Look up East Coast Greenway for an example.

FWIW - I have little interest in this kind of stuff. Yes, I'd use sections if they ran where I wanted to go, But I've spent so many years riding "blue highways" and have no issue with shared use roads.

exclusive bike/pedestrian trails are nice, but will never have the network density of the existing secondary road system. So, even if we have trals, a decnt amount of touring will be on shared roads.
__________________
FB
Chain-L site

An ounce of diagnosis is worth a pound of cure.

Just because I'm tired of arguing, doesn't mean you're right.

“One accurate measurement is worth a thousand expert opinions” - Adm Grace Murray Hopper - USN

WARNING, I'm from New York. Thin skinned people should maintain safe distance.
FBinNY is offline  
Old 09-06-17, 09:50 PM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Northern California
Posts: 10,879
Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 104 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 5 Times in 5 Posts
Canada: https://thegreattrail.ca/
johnny99 is offline  
Old 09-06-17, 10:12 PM
  #4  
In Real Life
 
Machka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Down under down under
Posts: 52,152

Bikes: Lots

Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3203 Post(s)
Liked 595 Times in 329 Posts
Originally Posted by johnny99
That's a bit of a joke.
Machka is offline  
Old 09-06-17, 10:15 PM
  #5  
In Real Life
 
Machka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Down under down under
Posts: 52,152

Bikes: Lots

Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3203 Post(s)
Liked 595 Times in 329 Posts
In answer to the question ...

1) I don't have a problem riding on roads. I like quiet country roads, such as one might find in the middle of Victoria, northern Tasmania or parts of Manitoba, Alberta, and lower mainland BC. I also don't mind wide highways with good shoulders.

2) If you want a look at rail trails and the like, check out this thread which is up to several pages now ...

https://www.bikeforums.net/living-car...paths-etc.html

Feel free to add photos and stories of rail trails etc. that you've ridden and like.
Machka is offline  
Old 09-06-17, 11:50 PM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2011
Posts: 3,150

Bikes: 2013 Surly Disc Trucker, 2004 Novara Randonee , old fixie , etc

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 671 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 49 Times in 43 Posts
Nice idea but pretty costly to have extensive nationwide thru-paths in USA with large thinly-populated areas. IMO it might be more economical to upgrade roads with wider shoulders. Even the clumsier motorists are usually polite to cyclists if passing is easy. Last tour was on ACA route: I was amazed at the light traffic on the back roads even though it was always fairly close to built-up areas.
DropBarFan is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 01:12 AM
  #7  
In Real Life
 
Machka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Down under down under
Posts: 52,152

Bikes: Lots

Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3203 Post(s)
Liked 595 Times in 329 Posts
Originally Posted by DropBarFan
IMO it might be more economical to upgrade roads with wider shoulders.
Absolutely!!!!!!

I got spoiled cycling in Alberta where most of the roads have wide beautiful shoulders. All roads ... with the exception of the really quiet minor roads ... should have wide beautiful shoulders.
Machka is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 03:07 AM
  #8  
Full Member
 
Join Date: May 2015
Posts: 275
Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 493 Post(s)
Liked 281 Times in 162 Posts
It sounds nice conceptually but I don't think it's practical. Stand on any street and count the number of cars and bikes and you'll discover why roads are designed for cars.
Tony P. is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 05:04 AM
  #9  
Senior Member
 
staehpj1's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Tallahassee, FL
Posts: 11,837
Mentioned: 7 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1236 Post(s)
Liked 744 Times in 554 Posts
That system isn't something I'd support and would likely not use it much. For me touring is about riding on the roads. In many cases I am likely to avoid a bike trail to take a parallel road.

Having bike trails in some places for folks who don't want to ride on the road is nice, but the existence of a network bike trails would tend to make motorists more hostile because they easily get the idea that bikes don't belong on the road.

On the TA at least twice we chose to avoid sections where the route followed a bike trail. We did enjoy the beautiful trail system in Colorado near Breckenridge though.

There are times when I do go for a day ride on one of our local bike trails. It is a 30-50 mile round trip with a nice lunch stop at the water and it is almost all in the shade.

Last edited by staehpj1; 09-07-17 at 05:10 AM.
staehpj1 is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 05:13 AM
  #10  
2-Wheeled Fool
 
J.Higgins's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2016
Location: New Hampshire
Posts: 2,486

Bikes: Surly Ogre, Brompton

Mentioned: 18 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1385 Post(s)
Liked 677 Times in 457 Posts
Originally Posted by DropBarFan
Nice idea but pretty costly to have extensive nationwide thru-paths in USA with large thinly-populated areas. IMO it might be more economical to upgrade roads with wider shoulders. Even the clumsier motorists are usually polite to cyclists if passing is easy. Last tour was on ACA route: I was amazed at the light traffic on the back roads even though it was always fairly close to built-up areas.
I'll give a huge +1 to this.
J.Higgins is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 05:23 AM
  #11  
In Real Life
 
Machka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Down under down under
Posts: 52,152

Bikes: Lots

Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3203 Post(s)
Liked 595 Times in 329 Posts
Originally Posted by staehpj1

... but the existence of a network bike trails would tend to make motorists more hostile because they easily get the idea that bikes don't belong on the road.
Yes ... I have ridden on roads, with a bicycle trail next to the road, and have been yelled at to get on the trail because they built it to get bicycles off the road. That gets tiresome.


That said, once ...

Rowan and I were cycling out to Wilson's Prom. There's a rough gravel trail next to the road, and so we were cycling on the road with our loaded touring bicycles. Sure enough, a vehicle slowed beside us and yelled us to get on the path because that's where bicycles belong.

We waved and smiled ... and eventually the vehicle drove away.

Later, we arrived at the campground in Wilson's Prom and set up in the camp kitchen to make dinner.

A woman went past a couple times and then came over to talk to us. She wanted to know if we were the cyclists in a particular location. Yes, we probably were. She asked us how far we had travelled. A century (100 miles) that day. Really?! That far!!

Then she said she and her husband were in the car that pulled up and told us to get on the gravel path!!!!!!!

Uh oh.

But interesting, apparently they weren't really trying to be nasty about it, they thought they were being helpful in the sense that they thought we weren't aware that a path existed (despite the fact that it was right there?). But apparently they had a discussion about it after we waved them on ... and they had a look at the path, and had come to the realisation that if we were to ride on that gravelly path, with the load we had on the bicycles, it would have been a long slow slog ... and that riding on the road would indeed be so much faster and more efficient. I guess it suddenly dawned on them why some cyclists prefer to remain on the road.
Machka is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 05:29 AM
  #12  
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,058
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18320 Post(s)
Liked 15,295 Times in 7,229 Posts
It's not going to happen in your lifetime, or anyone's lifetime most likely, for the reasons noted above. If you would read about the time and expense required to construct even 100 miles of trail using an existing railroad right of way you might understand why. And think of how limiting it would be. You would only be able to tour where the system or trails takes you.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 06:05 AM
  #13  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Golden, CO and Tucson, AZ
Posts: 2,822

Bikes: 2016 Fuji Tread, 1983 Trek 520

Mentioned: 13 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 669 Post(s)
Liked 725 Times in 422 Posts
I agree, dedicated multi-use paths (MUPs) are currently only feasible in highly populated areas with a good tax base.

If you'd like to see this changed, I encourage you to get involved in trail organizations and the political arena.
andrewclaus is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 06:07 AM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
saddlesores's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Thailand..........Nakhon Nowhere
Posts: 3,652

Bikes: inferior steel....and....noodly aluminium

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1053 Post(s)
Liked 339 Times in 228 Posts
hmm.....cross country/interstate bike trails?
let's say they build it.....

who's gonna maintain it when they can't afford to fix
potholes in the roadways?

who's gonna fix the cracks and the root damage?

who's gonna move the parked cars, the food vending
stalls, the pickups on blocks outside the transmission shop?

who's gonna clean the glass and debris that gets
brushed off the main highway onto the bike path?

and what about the nice coppers that decide to enforce
the (local?) laws requiring bikes to stay on bike paths?

or the mercedes drivers that try to run you off the
roadway, cause bikes don't belong?
saddlesores is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 06:45 AM
  #15  
In Real Life
 
Machka's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Down under down under
Posts: 52,152

Bikes: Lots

Mentioned: 141 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3203 Post(s)
Liked 595 Times in 329 Posts
Regarding the cost ... if you're not already aware how much it costs to build a trail, you'll fall off your chair when you find out.

I worked for the engineering department of a shire when the longest trail in Victoria was being built ... and my shire was responsible for the portion of it that went through the shire.
Home - Great Victorian Rail Trail

We're talking millions for that trail.

And that's just building it.

As has been mentioned, there's also the aspect of maintenance.

If a shire can get a healthy grant from the government or a benefactor of some sort, and if the shire is financially healthy enough to handle maintenance, then great ... build a trail. Many of Victoria's trails are quite nice. But if the OP is planning to "finance and support such a system with a use tax" ... assuming a relatively short trail only costs $1 million, the OP had better hope a minimum of 100,000 cyclists use the trail.

Yes, I would recommend getting involved with trail building ... find out what's really involved.

Last edited by Machka; 09-07-17 at 06:56 AM.
Machka is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 07:20 AM
  #16  
Senior Member
 
robert schlatte's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: columbus, ohio
Posts: 895

Bikes: Soma Saga, 1980 Schwinn Voyageur 11.8, New Albion Privateer

Mentioned: 2 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 76 Post(s)
Likes: 0
Liked 9 Times in 7 Posts
I will use a bike trail if it works with my route, but I would not want to use them exclusively. They provide a nice break from roads but after a couple of hours, I am bored and ready to get back to roadways. I find the US Bike Route development encouraging. I used USBR 35 in western Michigan this summer and all I had to do was follow the signed route- I didn't have to look at my may once. There are many planned routes across the US. I would imagine if they ever get developed they will supplant ACA routes/ maps.
robert schlatte is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 07:38 AM
  #17  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Location: Griffin, Georgia
Posts: 269

Bikes: 2010 Trek Wahoo, 2010 Trek FX 7.5, 2011 Trek Madone 3.1, 2012 Trek 520, 2016 Trek X-Caliber 8, 2017 Trek DS 4

Mentioned: 1 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 63 Post(s)
Liked 1 Time in 1 Post
Until we get bike paths through all our cities, I don't see connecting them with interstate paths. We have a long way to go.
Piratebike is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 07:41 AM
  #18  
Senior Member
 
jefnvk's Avatar
 
Join Date: Apr 2015
Location: Metro Detroit/AA
Posts: 8,215

Bikes: 2016 Novara Mazama

Mentioned: 63 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3640 Post(s)
Liked 81 Times in 51 Posts
Even in the Netherlands, which has what is effectively what you wish, large parts of the cycle routes are on regular roads, not exclusive cycle paths.

How much are you going to charge for said cycle plates? According to this article: Survey: 100 Million Americans Bike Each Year, But Few Make It a Habit ? Streetsblog USA, only 14M Americans ride more than once a week. At $100 a year (nearly equivalent to my car registration, but a price which would undoubtedly turn many off to cycling), that is $1.4B a year for routes. For comparison, Ann Arbor is looking at a 3 mile Greenway which is estimated to cost them $55M, after land acquisition in a pricey municipality and raised crossings to keep cycle traffic instead of stopping every block. Another trail conservancy in the area just spent nearly $3M on 5 miles of abandoned railroad grade. Another greenway in Detroit cost $5M for a half mile extension.

The money would not go a long way. According to this presentation from Tennessee: https://www.tn.gov/assets/entities/h...enways_101.pdf, one should budget around $1M per mile for a paved 12' wide trail. At $1.4B a year, that is 1400 miles, and that is also not counting land acquisition costs.

Originally Posted by DropBarFan
IMO it might be more economical to upgrade roads with wider shoulders.
+1. When roads are built/rebuilt, they should take cycle/pedestrian use into account, and built accordingly. Far easier than creating separate cycling specific infrastructure.

Originally Posted by indyfabz
It's not going to happen in your lifetime, or anyone's lifetime most likely, for the reasons noted above. If you would read about the time and expense required to construct even 100 miles of trail using an existing railroad right of way you might understand why. And think of how limiting it would be. You would only be able to tour where the system or trails takes you.
Bingo. We've got a patchwork of trails on a single abandoned railroad line running NE/SW through the Detroit Metro area, and even that can't be patched together into a single continuous route due to money and land issues.
jefnvk is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 07:49 AM
  #19  
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,058
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18320 Post(s)
Liked 15,295 Times in 7,229 Posts
Originally Posted by robert schlatte
I used USBR 35 in western Michigan this summer and all I had to do was follow the signed route- I didn't have to look at my may once. There are many planned routes across the US. I would imagine if they ever get developed they will supplant ACA routes/ maps.

ACA is quite involved with the development of the USBR system. The route networks will complement each other. Also, the ACA maps offer the added convenience of listing the locations of services. Makes things easier for those who would rather not leave things to chance and/or do the research on their own.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 07:59 AM
  #20  
Senior Member
 
bobwysiwyg's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2016
Location: 961' 42.28° N, 83.78° W (A2)
Posts: 2,344

Bikes: Mongoose Selous, Trek DS

Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 941 Post(s)
Liked 319 Times in 189 Posts
Originally Posted by robert schlatte
I will use a bike trail if it works with my route, but I would not want to use them exclusively. They provide a nice break from roads but after a couple of hours, I am bored and ready to get back to roadways. I find the US Bike Route development encouraging. I used USBR 35 in western Michigan this summer and all I had to do was follow the signed route- I didn't have to look at my may once. There are many planned routes across the US. I would imagine if they ever get developed they will supplant ACA routes/ maps.
We vacationed over in the South Haven area this summer. Rode sections of USBR 35 several times. Didn't even know of it until I researched USBR after returning to the cottage.
bobwysiwyg is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 08:06 AM
  #21  
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,058
Mentioned: 210 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18320 Post(s)
Liked 15,295 Times in 7,229 Posts
Originally Posted by Machka
We're talking millions for that trail.

And that's just building it.

As has been mentioned, there's also the aspect of maintenance.

Yep. Look at something like the Michelson Trail in South Dakota. IIRC, it took some 10 years (if not more) to complete that 109 mile, mostly unpaved trail, and that was with strong state support. Cost a hell of a lot of money and is managed by a state agency. Much of the labor required to rehab the countless bridges that are part of the trail was donated by the state's National Guard. There are other, longer trails like the Cowboy Trail in Nebraska that have been around for longer and are still not fully completed.


As for maintenance, the Mickelson charges a use fee (for anyone 12 and older) for the sections outside the few municipalities it passes through. $4/day or $15 for a yearly pass. Still, I believe some trail maintenance is performed by volunteers. When I rode it in 2015 there was an older gentleman grading a section with what looked to be a private tractor.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 08:14 AM
  #22  
ambulatory senior
 
52telecaster's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Peoria Il
Posts: 6,347

Bikes: Austro Daimler modified by Gugie! Raleigh Professional and lots of other bikes.

Mentioned: 76 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1953 Post(s)
Liked 3,633 Times in 1,670 Posts
Originally Posted by Machka
Yes ... I have ridden on roads, with a bicycle trail next to the road, and have been yelled at to get on the trail because they built it to get bicycles off the road. That gets tiresome.


That said, once ...

Rowan and I were cycling out to Wilson's Prom. There's a rough gravel trail next to the road, and so we were cycling on the road with our loaded touring bicycles. Sure enough, a vehicle slowed beside us and yelled us to get on the path because that's where bicycles belong.

We waved and smiled ... and eventually the vehicle drove away.

Later, we arrived at the campground in Wilson's Prom and set up in the camp kitchen to make dinner.

A woman went past a couple times and then came over to talk to us. She wanted to know if we were the cyclists in a particular location. Yes, we probably were. She asked us how far we had travelled. A century (100 miles) that day. Really?! That far!!

Then she said she and her husband were in the car that pulled up and told us to get on the gravel path!!!!!!!

Uh oh.

But interesting, apparently they weren't really trying to be nasty about it, they thought they were being helpful in the sense that they thought we weren't aware that a path existed (despite the fact that it was right there?). But apparently they had a discussion about it after we waved them on ... and they had a look at the path, and had come to the realisation that if we were to ride on that gravelly path, with the load we had on the bicycles, it would have been a long slow slog ... and that riding on the road would indeed be so much faster and more efficient. I guess it suddenly dawned on them why some cyclists prefer to remain on the road.
thanks for making cyclists look good!. i would have been likely to do something besides smiling.
52telecaster is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 08:18 AM
  #23  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,598

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,354 Times in 861 Posts
A very decent path along the North Sea shoreline from Rotterdam northward.. in NL..

May have to be active in your State government, to push thru that in each state, since that is not going to happen by fiat from DC.

US Interstate highway system like the Autobahn has the Military function of speeding troops and the Wehrmacht.
and that sold it to Congress, for funding It.






....

Last edited by fietsbob; 09-07-17 at 08:22 AM.
fietsbob is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 08:21 AM
  #24  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Location: QC Canada
Posts: 1,950

Bikes: Custom built LHT & Troll

Mentioned: 12 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 832 Post(s)
Liked 141 Times in 100 Posts
Originally Posted by indyfabz
As for maintenance, the Mickelson charges a use fee (for anyone 12 and older) for the sections outside the few municipalities it passes through. $4/day or $15 for a yearly pass.
The concept of a toll bike trail is interesting. My first instinct is to find it appalling -- most roads are free, a toll bike path is a clear sign that society at large doesn't care about cycling (vs, say, The Netherlands).

OTOH, we are used to the idea of user fees to access National Parks.

The idea of "linear park", something like the Blue Ridge Parkway, charging a user fee, might work. We would not plan a trip around a 109 mile trail, but would most certainly consider a cross-country trail.
gauvins is offline  
Old 09-07-17, 08:24 AM
  #25  
Banned
 
Join Date: Jun 2010
Location: NW,Oregon Coast
Posts: 43,598

Bikes: 8

Mentioned: 197 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 7607 Post(s)
Liked 1,354 Times in 861 Posts
The Dutch Royalty, Queens and all,

... like 40% of the voting population ride bicycles.. daily.
fietsbob is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.