jefnvk

One thing to make sure of while doing that is knowing the hunting seasons wherever you are touring. In Michigan starting in a few days, if there is a road into the woods, it is likely being used by someone until January.

reppans

Good point. Thanks!

mstateglfr 

CB HI - If you knew the stories the cyclist has told about how cheaply he tours and how dependent he is day in and day out(really multiple times a day) on the 'kindness' of others, you may change your opinion.



The cyclist 'gives' others the opportunity to feel good for 'helping' a stranger. And since ignorance is bliss, everyone wins, I guess.

adablduya

this reply provided absolutely zero value to the OP's inquiry. why did you even bother providing this response ?

adablduya

so, your partner couldn't find a no-cost option (camping); instead of sucking it up and providing his own for-cost option he allowed it be paid for by someone else (after she exhausted all of HER resources ...) ? did he exhaust all of his ? why didn't he pay for his own hotel ?

fantom1 

Sweet fancy Moses, what on Earth happened to this forum? Waaaaaay too many people with their panties in a bunch. Seriously people, lighten up. Am I the only one that is surprised by this level of arrogant pretentiousness?

adablduya

you're going to have to explain what you mean by "arrogant pretentiousness" in this context. IN MY OPINION, bicycle touring is an endeavor spirited around the notion of independence and self-sufficiency. so, if i am "arrogantly pretentious" for believing that a cycle-tourist should be flexible and CAPABLE of providing for his/her own care/food/accommodation, then so be it. me, i would take upon myself a lot more discomfort and costs before letting someone else pay my way, but that's just me.....

of course, we all might experience a greater need along the way that outside help would be appreciated. example: if "he" had lost his wallet, was in a hard rainstorm, had no immediate money and was offered a hotel room out of generosity, that's one thing (and i think most would repay that in some fashion or another...). but, that doesn't sound like this was the case here.

fantom1 

Its pretentious and arrogant to tell people what you think they are morally obligated to do.

Its even more so in a case where a person accepted kindness from a stranger and suddenly has a bunch of people on a BICYCLE forum jumping down their throats over it. Honestly, really?

nun

I usually think a couple of days ahead and have a destination in mind for the day I'm riding. On the Northern Tier I used Warmshowers extensively and the accommodation ranged from a warm bed and evening meal to a patch of grass to pitch the tent, but every host was welcoming and kind. I also camped in city parks and NPS and commercial campsites. It's good to have an emergency fund to pay for a motel every so often when camping looks dodgy or the weather is really foul. Asking at police stations, churches and local restaurants usually produces something.

adablduya

i don't believe it is either pretentious or arrogant to extend one's belief and moral system onto others; ever heard of organized religion ?? i think we all, consciously or not, use our own values as the basis for how we see others.

from a moral standpoint, i am of the belief that we are all, in society, generally expected to be able to manage our own affairs. i would say that this is especially true of cycle touring,and its metaphor of life in general.

it seems, in this case and IN MY OPINION, the reactions here are based on the fact the "he" accepted a paid hotel room from a stranger when not in a desperate situation. what is not determined is whether or not "he" had the means to pay for his own affairs. assuming he did, he should have paid for his own way, even if the pastor was kind enough to locate said hotel room. accepting kindness from strangers (or offering kindness to a stranger) is, of course, a positive thing. taking advantage is quite another.

i'll extend that point a little further and refer to how many cycle tourists not only avail themselves of hospitality (i.e., Warmshowers), which is fine and great (i am a WS host...), but go out of their way to plan and structure their tours to utilize these "free' services as much as possible or entirely, almost to the point of abusing them. while many will say this is ok, that's what these sites are for, i believe this still goes against my idea of bike touring being a self-sufficient / independent endeavor. if you can't afford it, don't do it.

indyfabz

This thread ended up where I thought it would. Only it took a different route than I imagined it would.

mstateglfr 

I hope I was able to help nudge it in your predicted direction, even just a bit.

BikeliciousBabe

Yes to both! He sent out "thank you" cards to everyone who helped him on his tour. At least everyone for whom he had a mailing address for. Somewhere around 50 "thank you" cards. We host people fairly often but only when he's home. I'm not comfortable hosting strangers when I'm home alone. Last Monday we met a cyclist at Ft. Stevens in Astoria and gave him our contact information. He spent 2 nights with us last week

None of what you said is true. He received very little help from strangers on his tour last year. He camped at churches/fire stations a lot but that's not being dependent. Calling a church/fire station and asking "can I camp behind your building for a night?" doesn't make anyone dependent. Campgrounds don't exist very frequently in a majority of the USA. Not much one can do about that. Sometimes the church/fire station invited him in for dinner but he always "paid" them back by helping them do chores etc. I'm certain they enjoyed his company as much as he enjoyed theirs.

Did you read my previous post? There was no campgrounds in the immediate area. The closest was 30ish miles away and it was late in the day. He only contacted the church to inquire about camping there after he'd exhausted all of his resources. He didn't pay for his own hotel because it wasn't in the budget. Of the four hotels he stayed at on his trip he only paid for one and only because he was stuck in a blizzard somewhere in Montana.

"If you can't afford it, don't do it." <---- That's so subjective. We can afford to go to Las Vegas and stay at the Luxor etc but we chose to stay in a hotel our friend is the GM at for a much cheaper rate. We can afford to credit card tour and stay in hotels but we chose to camp for free or on the cheap. Being financially responsible isn't a bad thing.

Right? We live in a world where people being kind to others is seen as meaning that person is "dependent" on them. What ever happened to the humbleness people once had?

mstateglfr 

Okay, what you have posted and what he has posted are different so I guess that can be started out or ignored, either way.
My comments are accurate based on what he has posted. I have zero desire to come onto a message board and lie that's just stupid.

Regardless, to paraphrase the Beatles- we get by with a little help from our friends.

BikeliciousBabe

I didn't say you lied. You're just misinformed. Lying requires intent, which I don't believe you had. Being misinformed, as you are, doesn't require intent. It's innocent enough. I was letting you know that what you posted was inaccurate.

I apologize if you took that as me calling you a liar.

BobG

And let's not forget that Ty's tour that year was for the purpose of raising research funds for the benefit of folks like me who have had cancer in the past or for you who may have cancer in the future. To suggest that he was trying to be an expense to others by accepting a gift is an insult. Indeed, refusing such a gift might be an insult to the giver. The pastor was obviously trying to encourage him in his effort by providing a motel.

Happy Feet

Well.. to be fair, Ty did not do himself any favours with his posting style back then.

I never really figured it out and it doesn't matter but I gave him the benefit of the doubt as being from a different generation with different values. I don't say that in a negative way, my son is 29 and we've had many good eye opening talks about how differently each generation sees things.

It's weird some times. If I didn't have the background as to why he thinks what he does I'd be like what??

adablduya

[QUOTE=BikeliciousBabe;19855047]
"If you can't afford it, don't do it." <---- That's so subjective. We can afford to go to Las Vegas and stay at the Luxor etc but we chose to stay in a hotel our friend is the GM at for a much cheaper rate. We can afford to credit card tour and stay in hotels but we chose to camp for free or on the cheap. Being financially responsible isn't a bad thing. /QUOTE]


of course that's a subjective statement. ok, so to a previous post: your partner HAD the money for the hotel, but chose to accept someone else's money rather than use his own. kind of makes my point.

accepting a cheaper rate at a Vegas hotel is not the same thing. the cheaper rate didn't come from some else's pocket.

being able to afford more and getting by on less is a great mantra, and i don't know why you would punctuate that point by saying "Being financially responsible isn't a bad thing"; no one would dispute that.....

indyfabz

"Rhinestone shades or cheap sunglasses...."

nun

Accepting gifts from "road angels" is perfectly fine IMO.....after all that's what Warmshowers is. I've accepted free meals and been given lots of drinks....even if I don't need them......by passing motorists. However, I've never been given sunglasses or money.

BikeliciousBabe

I hope you're cancer free now and glad you remember who Ty is! The charity to date has raised over $22K. A portion of that came from Ty and I by virtue of the people who helped him out on his trip. He kept track of when people helped him out and roughly how much. When his trip ended we made a donation in that amount. i.e. The hotel the pastor paid for was ~$100 (he estimated etc since he didn't feel comfortable asking how much stuff was) so $100 was donated to the charity by us when the trip was over in addition to all of the other funds strangers saved him on the trip.

The "thank you" cards mailed out let the strangers know this since he didn't tell them directly at the time.

I wasn't a member then so I cannot comment. We're in that 20-30 range so I totally understand! While both of his parents have passed away I've had many conversations with mine (as has he) about generational differences.

Clearly you missed my previous post where I said it wasn't in the budget. Hotels were an emergency option only. As such was the case when he was stuck in the blizzard. Otherwise he would have continued riding that night and stayed elsewhere.

BikeliciousBabe

I like that term! I've heard of "trail angels" when you're thru hiking the PCT/CDT/AT but I wasn't aware of a similar term for cycle touring.

indyfabz

Turning into a classic.

BigAura

Dang! Does that mean I've gotta read 47 posts?

indyfabz

Just #8 on.