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Don't Buy a Tubus Duo Rack

Old 10-06-17, 08:35 PM
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TallTourist
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Don't Buy a Tubus Duo Rack

Mines only a few months old and has spent maybe five days outside in the rain and it's already rusting. Absolute garbage! I'll never buy another Tubus rack again. Knew I should have coughed up the extra money for a Surly Nice (front) Rack. Last one I had lasted for years of touring commuting And getting rained on.
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Old 10-06-17, 11:23 PM
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Originally Posted by TallTourist View Post
Mines only a few months old and has spent maybe five days outside in the rain and it's already rusting. Absolute garbage! I'll never buy another Tubus rack again. Knew I should have coughed up the extra money for a Surly Nice (front) Rack. Last one I had lasted for years of touring commuting And getting rained on.
Chances are your last rack was aluminum. Both Tubus and Surly racks are made of chromoly steel (although tubus offers stainless and titanium racks too) which will rust if you let the paint get damaged. So Surly would not have helped you there. But chromoly is relatively rust resistant so chances are it's only a teeny bit of surface rust. It's also one of the best steels for thin wall tube applications and that is why it is used in racks. Touch up the paint holes with some nail polish and you're good to go.

Try to make an effort in the future and familiarize yourself with the materials and care/maintenance requirements of the products you're buying. You could coughed a bit more and bought a tubus stainless or Ti rack instead of chromoly
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Old 10-06-17, 11:39 PM
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Originally Posted by elcruxio View Post
Chances are your last rack was aluminum. Both Tubus and Surly racks are made of chromoly steel (although tubus offers stainless and titanium racks too) which will rust if you let the paint get damaged. So Surly would not have helped you there. But chromoly is relatively rust resistant so chances are it's only a teeny bit of surface rust. It's also one of the best steels for thin wall tube applications and that is why it is used in racks. Touch up the paint holes with some nail polish and you're good to go.

Try to make an effort in the future and familiarize yourself with the materials and care/maintenance requirements of the products you're buying. You could coughed a bit more and bought a tubus stainless or Ti rack instead of chromoly
Time wasn't on my side. I had to buy what the bike manufacturer suggested. It git me out of England but now it's going into a scrap bin. The Surly is cro mo as well but ostensibly much higher in chromium than Tubus since it didn't rust a bit and I certainly didn't baby it.

I installed the Duo rack as instructed so it can't even handle installation and light use. I'd call that overhyped garbage. Shouldn't have to sand and paint a bike with barely 500kms on it nor any components. Maybe it's time to stop making excuses for manufacturers.
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Old 10-06-17, 11:58 PM
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I've got 2 Tubus racks, Tara & Logo. and both of mine are perfectly fine.
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Old 10-07-17, 12:00 AM
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Originally Posted by TallTourist View Post
Time wasn't on my side. I had to buy what the bike manufacturer suggested. It git me out of England but now it's going into a scrap bin.
Well that's certainly no one's fault but your own. And to scrap an expensive rack that you could have resold or returned (if indeed your story is completely accurate) is doubly stupid.

But just FYI...steel rusts. Get over it.
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Old 10-07-17, 12:46 AM
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Originally Posted by TallTourist View Post
Time wasn't on my side. I had to buy what the bike manufacturer suggested. It git me out of England but now it's going into a scrap bin. The Surly is cro mo as well but ostensibly much higher in chromium than Tubus since it didn't rust a bit and I certainly didn't baby it.

I installed the Duo rack as instructed so it can't even handle installation and light use. I'd call that overhyped garbage. Shouldn't have to sand and paint a bike with barely 500kms on it nor any components. Maybe it's time to stop making excuses for manufacturers.
You have interestingly described a paradox. Chromoly, also known as 4130 or 25CrMo4 has a certain combination of elements, namely iron, carbon, chromium, molybdenium, manganese, sulfur, silicon and phosphorus. The chromium content is around 0.3%. Now if my basic understanding of chemistry is correct if one steel has a chromium content of 0.3% and another has significantly more, they cannot in fact have the same amount of chromium. But steel manufacturing standards require 4130 to have 0.3% chromium. So if Surly racks have more chromium, but are still made of 4130, I find myself amidst a conundrum I cannot properly solve with conventional physics. How can it have more chromium, yet still retain the same amount of chromium....? That's some quantum shroedingers steel frame right there.

Or you just nicked it some, caused the metal to show and got a bit of surface rust. Easy ways to handle that is to wipe it clean with some rubbing alcohol or WD40, add nail polish or grease and you're good to go. With grease you need to keep adding it so I propose nail polish. Also a good method of protecting any rack from pannier rubbing is to use some sort of durable tape on the contact points where there is contact between the rack and panniers.

Now if you wanted your bike to stay pretty while touring, well chromoly is not your best choice there. Probably should have gotten stainless. Or titanium.

Originally Posted by azza_333 View Post
I've got 2 Tubus racks, Tara & Logo. and both of mine are perfectly fine.
We have 5 tubus racks, all made out of chromoly and while 4 of them are in pretty rough looking shape they're all still completely functional and serviceable. Dabs of nailpolish, stickers, scratches, paint worn off in places etc.
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Old 10-07-17, 01:26 AM
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Another very happy Tubus owner of three or maybe four racks now. All had hard use, all fine. Nothing in this thread to discourage me from buying them again nor recommending them.
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Old 10-07-17, 01:30 AM
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Originally Posted by elcruxio View Post
You have interestingly described a paradox. Chromoly, also known as 4130 or 25CrMo4 has a certain combination of elements, namely iron, carbon, chromium, molybdenium, manganese, sulfur, silicon and phosphorus. The chromium content is around 0.3%. Now if my basic understanding of chemistry is correct if one steel has a chromium content of 0.3% and another has significantly more, they cannot in fact have the same amount of chromium. But steel manufacturing standards require 4130 to have 0.3% chromium. So if Surly racks have more chromium, but are still made of 4130, I find myself amidst a conundrum I cannot properly solve with conventional physics. How can it have more chromium, yet still retain the same amount of chromium....? That's some quantum shroedingers steel frame right there.

Or you just nicked it some, caused the metal to show and got a bit of surface rust. Easy ways to handle that is to wipe it clean with some rubbing alcohol or WD40, add nail polish or grease and you're good to go. With grease you need to keep adding it so I propose nail polish. Also a good method of protecting any rack from pannier rubbing is to use some sort of durable tape on the contact points where there is contact between the rack and panniers.

Now if you wanted your bike to stay pretty while touring, well chromoly is not your best choice there. Probably should have gotten stainless. Or titanium.



We have 5 tubus racks, all made out of chromoly and while 4 of them are in pretty rough looking shape they're all still completely functional and serviceable. Dabs of nailpolish, stickers, scratches, paint worn off in places etc.
Yeah I'm not sure what the difference in metals is but there definitely is one. My rear rack is a Tubus and showing no sign of rust yet despite being treated to the same abuse. Both front and rear are taped.

Back when I had the Surly and the inclination to bore myself with minutia I might have been able to tell you exactly what the difference between the metals in the racks was but now I can't be arsed. One is good and the other is garbage. It'd seem to be a different metal on the Duo rack from the others.

Not the end of the world anyway a rack that holds only 15kgs is pretty worthless for me. I'm huge and consequently everything I have and consume is heavier.

I'm glad your experiences with your racks have been more positive.
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Old 10-07-17, 01:33 AM
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Originally Posted by azza_333 View Post
I've got 2 Tubus racks, Tara & Logo. and both of mine are perfectly fine.
Cool. The Duo sucks though.
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Old 10-07-17, 02:10 AM
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Originally Posted by TallTourist View Post
Yeah I'm not sure what the difference in metals is but there definitely is one. My rear rack is a Tubus and showing no sign of rust yet despite being treated to the same abuse. Both front and rear are taped.

Back when I had the Surly and the inclination to bore myself with minutia I might have been able to tell you exactly what the difference between the metals in the racks was but now I can't be arsed. One is good and the other is garbage. It'd seem to be a different metal on the Duo rack from the others.

Not the end of the world anyway a rack that holds only 15kgs is pretty worthless for me. I'm huge and consequently everything I have and consume is heavier.

I'm glad your experiences with your racks have been more positive.
If the metal is different as you state (which I highly doubt) then one manufacturer is lying. Considering Tubus is based on Germany and the racks are made in Germany, whereas Germany has one of the worlds most ironclad consumer protection legislations (which is multiple times stronger than the US equivalent) still further strengthened by the European Union consumer protection systems which combined will absolutely wreck any company found lying about their products or their materials, my money is on Tubus not being the dishonest one. I don't however believe either company is lying and using Occam's razor the most simple solution is that you are simply mistaken in your assesment of the products / situation. Also you seem to be fussed about some surface rust, which can in fact also happen in completely rust free stainless steels like 18/8 in the right conditions. I've managed to get surface rust on my Klean Kanteen bottle but I'm not crying wolf about it since iron based alloys will always have some tendency to oxidize. Most of the time it will make no difference however, other than cosmetic that is.

I'm also curious to know, why did you buy a front rack underspecced for your purposes in the first place? Could this mistake on your part have something to do with the negative feelings you're having and you're now projecting that anger towards the product?
I'm guessing I'm bigger (if not taller, then heavier at least) than you are but I've managed fine with a Tubus Tara lowrider which also has a 15kg weight limit. Honestly I would not want to put more weight in front as that will start to severely impact handling. Most I've had was 11kg and that was fine for me. Two full ortlieb front rollers so I could not have fit more would I have wanted to.
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Old 10-07-17, 02:13 AM
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Originally Posted by elcruxio View Post
If the metal is different as you state (which I highly doubt) then one manufacturer is lying. Considering Tubus is based on Germany and the racks are made in Germany, whereas Germany has one of the worlds most ironclad consumer protection legislations (which is multiple times stronger than the US equivalent) still further strengthened by the European Union consumer protection systems which combined will absolutely wreck any company found lying about their products or their materials, my money is on Tubus not being the dishonest one. I don't however believe either company is lying and using Occam's razor the most simple solution is that you are simply mistaken in your assesment of the products / situation. Also you seem to be fussed about some surface rust, which can in fact also happen in completely rust free stainless steels like 18/8 in the right conditions. I've managed to get surface rust on my Klean Kanteen bottle but I'm not crying wolf about it since iron based alloys will always have some tendency to oxidize. Most of the time it will make no difference however, other than cosmetic that is.

I'm also curious to know, why did you buy a front rack underspecced for your purposes in the first place? Could this mistake on your part have something to do with the negative feelings you're having and you're now projecting that anger towards the product?
I'm guessing I'm bigger (if not taller, then heavier at least) than you are but I've managed fine with a Tubus Tara lowrider which also has a 15kg weight limit. Honestly I would not want to put more weight in front as that will start to severely impact handling. Most I've had was 11kg and that was fine for me. Two full ortlieb front rollers so I could not have fit more would I have wanted to.
I'd forgotten why I stopped coming to this forum; thanks for the reminder.
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Old 10-07-17, 02:22 AM
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if you're gonna trash bin that new deccan, since it be made of
the same 4130 steel, please hold off a bit and i'll western onion
the shipping fee to ya, and take it off your hands.

it's obviously inferior steel, as detailed on the vivence website:

Steel is not all the same and in this zone it is actually a steel alloy that is used. In the bike industry it is commonly known as chrome-moly or cr-mo. 4130 is by far the most common of all the steels used to build high quality bicycle frames. The 4 in 4130 represents steel containing nickel, chromium and molybdenum, as distinct from plain carbon, nickel, nickel chromium and other steels. . The 1 in 4130 defines the percentage of chromium and molybdenum in the alloy. The last two numbers, 30, mean that the percentage of carbon, expressed as hundredths of a percent, is 0.30%.

Regardless of who made it, the Society of Automotive Engineers (SAE) specifies the grades of steel. If it is 4130, as used in bike frames, the composition is fixed and controlled by SAE.
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Old 10-07-17, 02:41 AM
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Originally Posted by TallTourist View Post
I'd forgotten why I stopped coming to this forum; thanks for the reminder.
Yes it must be hard discussing with people who disagree with you
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Old 10-07-17, 04:55 AM
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Originally Posted by TallTourist View Post
Mines only a few months old and has spent maybe five days outside in the rain and it's already rusting. Absolute garbage! I'll never buy another Tubus rack again. Knew I should have coughed up the extra money for a Surly Nice (front) Rack. Last one I had lasted for years of touring commuting And getting rained on.
I don't buy Tubus racks. Not because of the rust, who cares about a little bit of rust, but because of the cost.
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Old 10-07-17, 06:51 AM
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Originally Posted by gerryl View Post
I don't buy Tubus racks. Not because of the rust, who cares about a little bit of rust, but because of the cost.
In Europe they are actually quite affordable. I bought my last Tubus Cargo rack for about $40
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Old 10-07-17, 08:12 AM
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Seems the many trans continental tourists arriving here were fine with them, there are few hoopless steel racks..
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Old 10-07-17, 08:37 AM
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Originally Posted by elcruxio View Post
You have interestingly described a paradox. Chromoly, also known as 4130 or 25CrMo4 has a certain combination of elements, namely iron, carbon, chromium, molybdenium, manganese, sulfur, silicon and phosphorus. The chromium content is around 0.3%. Now if my basic understanding of chemistry is correct if one steel has a chromium content of 0.3% and another has significantly more, they cannot in fact have the same amount of chromium. But steel manufacturing standards require 4130 to have 0.3% chromium. So if Surly racks have more chromium, but are still made of 4130, I find myself amidst a conundrum I cannot properly solve with conventional physics. How can it have more chromium, yet still retain the same amount of chromium....? That's some quantum shroedingers steel frame right there.

Or you just nicked it some, caused the metal to show and got a bit of surface rust. Easy ways to handle that is to wipe it clean with some rubbing alcohol or WD40, add nail polish or grease and you're good to go. With grease you need to keep adding it so I propose nail polish. Also a good method of protecting any rack from pannier rubbing is to use some sort of durable tape on the contact points where there is contact between the rack and panniers.

Now if you wanted your bike to stay pretty while touring, well chromoly is not your best choice there. Probably should have gotten stainless. Or titanium.



We have 5 tubus racks, all made out of chromoly and while 4 of them are in pretty rough looking shape they're all still completely functional and serviceable. Dabs of nailpolish, stickers, scratches, paint worn off in places etc.
According to Wikipedia:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/41xx_steel

4130
Chromium: 0.801.10%
Molybdenum: 0.150.25%
Carbon: 0.280.33%
Manganese: 0.400.60%
Phosphorous (Max): 0.035%
Sulfur: (Max): 0.040%
Silicon: 0.150.35%
Iron: Balance

Note that most of the elements are generally specified as a range. It is quite possible that different manufacturers would choose to use different amounts of Chromium, or other alloy metals, and thus the different tubes would actually have slightly different properties.

Different filler rod (or even brass) could also be used as part of the manufacturing.

The tubing may also be electroplated with something prior to finishing.

And, of course, not all paint is the same, and quality may even depend on application technique.
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Old 10-07-17, 09:00 AM
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would you take a photo of the rust areas to show the issue that you are describing, it would be a good visual help to understand the extent of the problem, as its not clear to me where exactly the rust is forming.

when you say that your racks are "taped", are you referring to putting tape on the areas that the panniers hook onto to stop the paint being rubbed off? I have done this with my racks and its an easy,effect way of stopping any paint damage.
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Old 10-07-17, 09:07 AM
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I apply a coat of car wax to my bikes, including racks, a couple of times a year. Rust is not an issue on my bikes or my 10 year old Tubus racks.

One of my bikes with Tubus racks is ridden daily year-round without any rust issues. I think problems with corrosion have a lot to do with where you live and ride,i.e., the coast or in states that use salt on the roads in winter.

Last edited by Doug64; 10-07-17 at 01:56 PM.
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Old 10-07-17, 10:00 AM
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Originally Posted by TallTourist View Post
I'd forgotten why I stopped coming to this forum; thanks for the reminder.
I remember at about 5 learning that some kids were not very nice. My dad taught me that some people out there are dicks and don't waste your time on them as they are not worth getting offended by. Within reading a couple sentences of a poster a person can quite often decipher who is a dick and who is a decent human being. 99% of the time a person is better off just not reading the posts from the dicks in the world. Rather than get upset I tend to feel for a person that decides they have to act and say such things as it is clear they have some deep struggles in their lives.

On your rack; sorry you had such a poor experience. I can relate to how it feels when you are excited and buy something you think is going to be great and then for whatever reason it lets you down.

cheers,
Daren
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Old 10-07-17, 10:15 AM
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Take out the tube end plugs, and pour in paint, , then pour out the excess..
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Old 10-07-17, 12:02 PM
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Let's see some pics of this rack that rusted beyond usability after five days.
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Old 10-07-17, 12:20 PM
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My guess: same metal (4130) but different finishes. From the Surly webpage:

Surface finish: phosphate coated inside and out, powdercoated exterior
Can't find any info on Tubus finishes, but I'm betting it's not the same.
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Old 10-07-17, 01:17 PM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by elcruxio View Post
Yes it must be hard discussing with people who disagree with you
There is disagreeing with a guess and then there is all thst you have said and how you've said it.
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Old 10-07-17, 01:19 PM
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Buy Bruce Gordon's racks instead.
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