Cantilever brakes for heavy weight touring?
#127
Senior Member
out with the old, in with the new
I made up my mind to order some Xt 2 piston brakes. I expect they will be on sale after christmas.
The classic, antique bicycle, is not as comfortable as the modern cycle. I adjusted the cantis. I found some Tektro levers in a drawer, and chucked the old altus levers that came on the bicycle in 1995. I got them dialed in just right. They stop the bicycle. They take more hand strength than disc brakes. Why not get the latest and greatest brakes? I was rolling around on a modern bike. It is more comfortable. I put away the 8 year old bike and started to ride the 27 year old bike. The old bike is good for shopping and parking in crime areas. If they steal it I am only out an old bike with hand me down parts from a more expensive bicycle.
I got an 11 speed xtr crank for the fargo, The old bike inherited the xt triple. I found the xt cantilever brakes in Ensenada. They had been sitting in a box on a shelf for a long time. The XT front derailleur came from A table sale in Chula Vista. They found a bunch of old stuff when they cleaned the shop. The black box rear derailleur came from a down hill bike with a cracked drop out. I might put the old xt 9 speed long cage derailleur on there and get an extended range cassette.
Old bikes are cheap, when you find old parts, they are cheap. Modern bikes are more comfortable. Retro bikes are for parking at the library, or touring in Guatemala. Modern bikes are better.
The classic, antique bicycle, is not as comfortable as the modern cycle. I adjusted the cantis. I found some Tektro levers in a drawer, and chucked the old altus levers that came on the bicycle in 1995. I got them dialed in just right. They stop the bicycle. They take more hand strength than disc brakes. Why not get the latest and greatest brakes? I was rolling around on a modern bike. It is more comfortable. I put away the 8 year old bike and started to ride the 27 year old bike. The old bike is good for shopping and parking in crime areas. If they steal it I am only out an old bike with hand me down parts from a more expensive bicycle.
I got an 11 speed xtr crank for the fargo, The old bike inherited the xt triple. I found the xt cantilever brakes in Ensenada. They had been sitting in a box on a shelf for a long time. The XT front derailleur came from A table sale in Chula Vista. They found a bunch of old stuff when they cleaned the shop. The black box rear derailleur came from a down hill bike with a cracked drop out. I might put the old xt 9 speed long cage derailleur on there and get an extended range cassette.
Old bikes are cheap, when you find old parts, they are cheap. Modern bikes are more comfortable. Retro bikes are for parking at the library, or touring in Guatemala. Modern bikes are better.
Last edited by chrisx; 12-17-17 at 03:31 PM.
#128
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I was looking forward to trying hydraulic brakes but choices for 3x9 drop-bar touring bikes are bad. TRP Hylex is the only non-brifter model AFAIK & it gets mediocre reviews. Shimano hydro brakes require converting to 10-speed so it would be ~$450 for the whole upgrade.
#129
Senior Member
Cantilever brakes for heavy weight touring?
The old bike did not cost $450, it cost $39.95 at value village. I had a $100 into it before I took my first tour on it.
New seat at the Bikery coop, $5, Full fenders at the REI garage sale $20, set back seat post, $2,(26.4mm), not the easiest one to find, Bike Works, new spokes at the coop, 15 cents each, new tubes, $5 each, longer stem and riser bars, etc.
I bought it to park in the woods and do some hiking. There were so many fires, I decided to ride down the Pacific Coast Bike Route instead. I slowly fixed it up with old parts I had.
I can not help but notice, old mt bikes have the same geometry as modern touring bikes.
Nothing wrong with touring on an old bike with cantis, most tours are not through the roughest terrain.
Those cantis sure tire out the hands comming down from the mountains, with lots of brakeing for hours.
New seat at the Bikery coop, $5, Full fenders at the REI garage sale $20, set back seat post, $2,(26.4mm), not the easiest one to find, Bike Works, new spokes at the coop, 15 cents each, new tubes, $5 each, longer stem and riser bars, etc.
I bought it to park in the woods and do some hiking. There were so many fires, I decided to ride down the Pacific Coast Bike Route instead. I slowly fixed it up with old parts I had.
I can not help but notice, old mt bikes have the same geometry as modern touring bikes.
Nothing wrong with touring on an old bike with cantis, most tours are not through the roughest terrain.
Those cantis sure tire out the hands comming down from the mountains, with lots of brakeing for hours.
Last edited by chrisx; 12-18-17 at 12:44 AM.
#130
Senior Member
You'd be wrong - you guys talk like this is some new problem. This isn't rocket science and the problem and the fix has been around a long time. The same thing can happen with a steel fork. Matter of fact, I had the exact same problem on my (then) mountain bike from the late '80s (steel non suspension fork) when they all came with canti brakes. And this bike that I have now also came with a steel fork and it was an on again/off again problem with that fork and canti brakes and the old pads. A fork that doesn't have some fore and aft movement is going to have a pretty harsh ride.
It wasn't hard to solve at all. Simple swap of a cantilever brake for a V-brake on the front. 20 minutes and it's fixed.
FWIW, I did a 6 week tour of the British Isles in 1981 with just 25 lbs per person including full camping gear. So this type of lightweight touring is not exactly a new thing for me (also a race type of frame for the day). Now, with the advent of equipment and clothing improvements, that's down to around 20 lbs or maybe even less using approximately the same list of gear but updated to more modern equivalents.
J.
It wasn't hard to solve at all. Simple swap of a cantilever brake for a V-brake on the front. 20 minutes and it's fixed.
FWIW, I did a 6 week tour of the British Isles in 1981 with just 25 lbs per person including full camping gear. So this type of lightweight touring is not exactly a new thing for me (also a race type of frame for the day). Now, with the advent of equipment and clothing improvements, that's down to around 20 lbs or maybe even less using approximately the same list of gear but updated to more modern equivalents.
J.
Fork ‘flex’ is a complex issue, since you’re an engineer I’m sure you understand. A fork can be ‘stiff’ at the crown/canti posts but if it has curved blades can be flexible lower on the fork. In the rare circumstance it’s an issue on a steel fork….a quick fix is a $10 crown mounted cable stop and be done with it.
There is one common theme with your bikes, just sayin'
#131
Senior Member
Again - for the vast majority of people this isn't an issue, it's simply not a problem. Treating it like it is by posting multiple times about doesn't make it so and to be honest, it's a bit disingenuous. It's an isolated issue.
Fork ‘flex’ is a complex issue, since you’re an engineer I’m sure you understand. A fork can be ‘stiff’ at the crown/canti posts but if it has curved blades can be flexible lower on the fork. In the rare circumstance it’s an issue on a steel fork….a quick fix is a $10 crown mounted cable stop and be done with it.
There is one common theme with your bikes, just sayin'
Fork ‘flex’ is a complex issue, since you’re an engineer I’m sure you understand. A fork can be ‘stiff’ at the crown/canti posts but if it has curved blades can be flexible lower on the fork. In the rare circumstance it’s an issue on a steel fork….a quick fix is a $10 crown mounted cable stop and be done with it.
There is one common theme with your bikes, just sayin'
But, if your fork is drilled at the crown then a fork mounted cable hanger will likely work (not probably, but likely). There are some carbon forks built that way too.
And you’re right. I’m pretty sure I understand the problem.
And I’ll leave you with this:
J.
#132
Senior Member
Fork material has little to nothing to do with it. Fork characteristics for horizontal compliance have everything to do with it. And like forks in general, they can be all over the map for amount of compliance.
But, if your fork is drilled at the crown then a fork mounted cable hanger will likely work (not probably, but likely). There are some carbon forks built that way too.
And you’re right. I’m pretty sure I understand the problem.
And I’ll leave you with this:
J.
But, if your fork is drilled at the crown then a fork mounted cable hanger will likely work (not probably, but likely). There are some carbon forks built that way too.
And you’re right. I’m pretty sure I understand the problem.
And I’ll leave you with this:
J.
#134
Senior Member
"So 2 weeks, 3 countries, over 100 hours in buses, cars and trucks later... "
our hero got his brakes
The Great Brake Odyssey ? Bike Wanderer
They do sell cantis in the next village you know.
our hero got his brakes
The Great Brake Odyssey ? Bike Wanderer
They do sell cantis in the next village you know.
#135
Senior Member
"So 2 weeks, 3 countries, over 100 hours in buses, cars and trucks later... "
our hero got his brakes
The Great Brake Odyssey ? Bike Wanderer
They do sell cantis in the next village you know.
our hero got his brakes
The Great Brake Odyssey ? Bike Wanderer
They do sell cantis in the next village you know.
Also they may not sell canti's at the next village. Could be they sell vees or just coasters. Could be the village has no bike shop. It depends
#136
Senior Member
They have a lot of cantilever brakes, more cantis than anything else.
A lot of villages have a moto and bici shop, or perhaps you could stop at the ferreteria, they might have some brake parts.
Could be elcruxio has never been to Peru, or anywhere in south or central america.
Says he is from Finland. Maybe he knows what brakes fit a fat bike.
In Lima, a couple of blocks southeast of Plaza Dos de Mayo, they have a set of 2 piston Saint brakes for sale at one of the many small bike shops, mostly they have slx level disc brakes, not many high end parts. In Cajamarca they have v and canti brakes for sale. In the mountain villages they have 26 x 2.1 tires and canti brakes, nothing else.
Last edited by chrisx; 12-24-17 at 01:14 AM.
#137
Senior Member
Ever been to South America?
They have a lot of cantilever brakes, more cantis than anything else.
A lot of villages have a moto and bici shop, or perhaps you could stop at the ferreteria, they might have some brake parts.
Could be elcruxio has never been to Peru, or anywhere in south or central america.
Says he is from Finland. Maybe he knows what brakes fit a fat bike.
In Lima, a couple of blocks southeast of Plaza Dos de Mayo, they have a set of 2 piston Saint brakes for sale at one of the many small bike shops, mostly they have slx level disc brakes, not many high end parts. In Cajamarca they have v and canti brakes for sale. In the mountain villages they have 26 x 2.1 tires and canti brakes, nothing else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_UedgKyL1o
They have a lot of cantilever brakes, more cantis than anything else.
A lot of villages have a moto and bici shop, or perhaps you could stop at the ferreteria, they might have some brake parts.
Could be elcruxio has never been to Peru, or anywhere in south or central america.
Says he is from Finland. Maybe he knows what brakes fit a fat bike.
In Lima, a couple of blocks southeast of Plaza Dos de Mayo, they have a set of 2 piston Saint brakes for sale at one of the many small bike shops, mostly they have slx level disc brakes, not many high end parts. In Cajamarca they have v and canti brakes for sale. In the mountain villages they have 26 x 2.1 tires and canti brakes, nothing else.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-_UedgKyL1o
Also does it matter whether I've been to South America. I don't claim to know the inventory of every bike shop even in the country I live in, nor do I know whether there is a bike shop in the next village. The fact that you do know exactly those things is nothing short of absolutely amazing and you should maybe offer your services to some trade conglomerate etc.
#138
Senior Member
Cantilever brakes for heavy weight touring?
I did remember the point of the thread.
Cantilever brakes for heavy weight touring?
was the name of the thread.
Guy spends 100 hours on the bus and back of a truck etc, so he can get some German brakes. All the bike shops he passed along the way sell cantilever brakes, all of them, or at least all the shops that have bicycle brakes for sale. Do you even remember where the guy in the video was when he needed brakes? He has a series of ¨See The World Videos,¨ well worth watching.
So, we know that canti brakes are easy to get in south america, and we know that, Iohan Gueorguiev
https://www.bikewanderer.com/
finds the need for premium 2 piston German brakes
Is it better to have a bicycle that can be easily repaired along the way,
or
is it better to have the finest bike parts made today?
Our hero in the videos has a Lauf carbon fork
https://www.laufforks.com/
and
magura brakes
https://www.magura.com/en/components/...lpage/?p=25519
As he found the slx not good enough.
Last edited by chrisx; 12-27-17 at 10:23 PM.
#139
Crawler
Wow
I did remember the point of the thread.
Cantilever brakes for heavy weight touring?
was the name of the thread.
Guy spends 100 hours on the bus and back of a truck etc, so he can get some German brakes. All the bike shops he passed along the way sell cantilever brakes, all of them, or at least all the shops that have bicycle brakes for sale. Do you even remember where the guy in the video was when he needed brakes? He has a series of ¨See The World Videos,¨ well worth watching.
So, we know that canti brakes are easy to get in south america, and we know that, Iohan Gueorguiev
Bike Wanderer
finds the need for premium 2 piston German brakes
Is it better to have a bicycle that can be easily repaired along the way,
or
is it better to have the finest bike parts made today?
Our hero in the videos has a Lauf carbon fork
Lauf Carbon Bike & Forks | The Most Versatile Gravel Bike and Lightweight Suspension Forks on the Market
and
magura brakes
MAGURA
As he found the slx not good enough.
Cantilever brakes for heavy weight touring?
was the name of the thread.
Guy spends 100 hours on the bus and back of a truck etc, so he can get some German brakes. All the bike shops he passed along the way sell cantilever brakes, all of them, or at least all the shops that have bicycle brakes for sale. Do you even remember where the guy in the video was when he needed brakes? He has a series of ¨See The World Videos,¨ well worth watching.
So, we know that canti brakes are easy to get in south america, and we know that, Iohan Gueorguiev
Bike Wanderer
finds the need for premium 2 piston German brakes
Is it better to have a bicycle that can be easily repaired along the way,
or
is it better to have the finest bike parts made today?
Our hero in the videos has a Lauf carbon fork
Lauf Carbon Bike & Forks | The Most Versatile Gravel Bike and Lightweight Suspension Forks on the Market
and
magura brakes
MAGURA
As he found the slx not good enough.
IMO, if you don't have personal experience with the system, and judging them by what you heard and seen only in the net is not the best way make your opinion on the subject.
#140
Senior Member
#141
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Like I said, Sturmey Archer DRUM brakes don't need ANY fixing, adjusting or spare pads. Spare bearings are easy to carry for when they crap out in 17,000 miles or so.
#142
Senior Member
#143
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There's also probably a lot of DH bikes that have taken way more of a beating overall without any problems. IME it's pretty rare for hydros (and brakes in general) to fail. Every time I can think of where I had brakes that got wrecked also involved totaled forks/frames and hospital visits.
#144
Senior Member
I did remember the point of the thread.
Cantilever brakes for heavy weight touring?
was the name of the thread.
Guy spends 100 hours on the bus and back of a truck etc, so he can get some German brakes. All the bike shops he passed along the way sell cantilever brakes, all of them, or at least all the shops that have bicycle brakes for sale. Do you even remember where the guy in the video was when he needed brakes? He has a series of ¨See The World Videos,¨ well worth watching.
So, we know that canti brakes are easy to get in south america, and we know that, Iohan Gueorguiev
Bike Wanderer
finds the need for premium 2 piston German brakes
Is it better to have a bicycle that can be easily repaired along the way,
or
is it better to have the finest bike parts made today?
Our hero in the videos has a Lauf carbon fork
Lauf Carbon Bike & Forks | The Most Versatile Gravel Bike and Lightweight Suspension Forks on the Market
and
magura brakes
MAGURA
As he found the slx not good enough.
Cantilever brakes for heavy weight touring?
was the name of the thread.
Guy spends 100 hours on the bus and back of a truck etc, so he can get some German brakes. All the bike shops he passed along the way sell cantilever brakes, all of them, or at least all the shops that have bicycle brakes for sale. Do you even remember where the guy in the video was when he needed brakes? He has a series of ¨See The World Videos,¨ well worth watching.
So, we know that canti brakes are easy to get in south america, and we know that, Iohan Gueorguiev
Bike Wanderer
finds the need for premium 2 piston German brakes
Is it better to have a bicycle that can be easily repaired along the way,
or
is it better to have the finest bike parts made today?
Our hero in the videos has a Lauf carbon fork
Lauf Carbon Bike & Forks | The Most Versatile Gravel Bike and Lightweight Suspension Forks on the Market
and
magura brakes
MAGURA
As he found the slx not good enough.
He has a fatbike. It only accepts disc brakes, not cantilevers. What fork he has makes no difference. Why he has a fat bike is up to him but there's not better tool for demanding terrain. He's been doing that stuff for a while so he may have some winter / loose surface experience as well. An easily repairable bike makes no difference if you're stuck in deep snow or a particularly bad road.
#145
Senior Member
I have some serious difficulty following your line of thought here.
He has a fatbike. It only accepts disc brakes, not cantilevers. What fork he has makes no difference. Why he has a fat bike is up to him but there's not better tool for demanding terrain. He's been doing that stuff for a while so he may have some winter / loose surface experience as well. An easily repairable bike makes no difference if you're stuck in deep snow or a particularly bad road.
He has a fatbike. It only accepts disc brakes, not cantilevers. What fork he has makes no difference. Why he has a fat bike is up to him but there's not better tool for demanding terrain. He's been doing that stuff for a while so he may have some winter / loose surface experience as well. An easily repairable bike makes no difference if you're stuck in deep snow or a particularly bad road.
They rarely have problems, and likely not an issue in developed country's. They are not field serviceable, would need bled on long trip and can be finicky.
In S America issues could end a trip...mat be low probability, but it's a risk nonetheless.
#146
Senior Member
I don't agree with elcruxio most of the time, but you trying to prove a point by bringing one single failure to generalize Hydro Disc Brake System is flawed. There are a lot of hydro brakes out there have done around the world trips without a single failure. The last time I checked, top 3 around the world record was set with hydro brakes.
IMO, if you don't have personal experience with the system, and judging them by what you heard and seen only in the net is not the best way make your opinion on the subject.
IMO, if you don't have personal experience with the system, and judging them by what you heard and seen only in the net is not the best way make your opinion on the subject.
Last edited by nickw; 12-28-17 at 06:31 PM.
#147
Crawler
However, brakes don't go bad because they are sitting for a while. It's about how much you use and abuse them. I'm pretty sure Mike Hall beat the crap out of the equipment when he was setting the record.
#148
Crawler
He's using it as an example, doesn't matter what kind of bike it was, he could have been riding anything....point is, hydro discs crap out, it's very difficult if not impossible to repair.
They rarely have problems, and likely not an issue in developed country's. They are not field serviceable, would need bled on long trip and can be finicky.
In S America issues could end a trip...mat be low probability, but it's a risk nonetheless.
They rarely have problems, and likely not an issue in developed country's. They are not field serviceable, would need bled on long trip and can be finicky.
In S America issues could end a trip...mat be low probability, but it's a risk nonetheless.
#149
Senior Member
They can get spongy from sitting, not sure why that matters, but regardless we are talking bike touring or continuous riding in all sorts of conditions.
#150
Senior Member
If a brake failure can end a trip, you might as well stop bike touring since there are a lot more things that can go wrong in a trip. My bike is a least of my worries when I travel. And that comes from a guy who travels with Etap, Hydro brakes and all carbon parts on my touring bike.
I used front dyno hub to charge batteries which was cool....as long as it still worked. Never had a problem, but I also dont tour in the Andes.
Cute experiment but decided on a MTB drivetrain, but it may work for you....we all ride different and if your comfortable, cool. Id pick something simple for a big tour or offroad that I can field service.
I use carbon a lot as well...and gasp...with carbon rims and cantis.
Last edited by nickw; 12-29-17 at 12:40 AM.