escii_35

+1

Tune to the middle with 3.5 useful gears in the granny. If you have a clamp on FD and are using friction or old campy brifters for the FD shifting, granny ring swaps are easy peasy.

tspoon

Did you successfully get up? I think the steepest I've managed on loose surfaces is 15%, although it had more gravel than that road appears to have. The gearing was 22x32 on 26"x1.75 tires (17.5 gear inches) with a more offroad-y type grip than those tires appear to.

saddlesores

afraid not. in my current decrepit condition can only make about 100 meters
on a 18%, half a click on a 14%.

can usually climb any 12% with effort..........they can't be that long, right?

anything else no problem. 10% or under, don't even notice other than the
really slow speed.

WNCGoater

I realize we're generalizing here but typical touring, some climbing (not talking 14% grades) of "normal" roads, some downhill, plenty of rollers and flats...
What is a usable and reasonable low-end gear inch? Is 22" that point? And is 22" a huge jump from say, 25-26"

acantor

18%! That's steep!

I once encountered an 18% grade on a loaded touring bike equipped with 24-38-50 in front and a six-speed 14-32 in the back. Despite having a very low gear (24-32), I struggled: I zigzagged all the way up and needed to stop and rest every minute or so. (The extreme heat may have been a factor...)

That experience taught me that I would prefer even lower bail-out gears when touring in hilly terrain. My lowest gear today is noticeably lower: 22-36 instead of 24-32. The difference is about 13%.

However, I'm not sure the enhancement would make a significant difference on monster hills. When the slope is steep enough, gravity wins!

djb

I'm like a broken record here on this subject, along with a number of us guys and gals who like and appreciate low gearing....

re your question--it all comes down to how heavy your bike+load is AND the terrain.

my life experience touring shows me that using a 25 g.i bike with 40-50lbs of stuff is not enjoyable, naysayers notwithstanding, its hard on your knees and taking care of your knees means you'll ride longer in your life and your day will be less taxing if you can increase cadence on hard climbs.

Plain and simple, despite the "attitude" that this is wimpy and that you have a small penis if you do this ;-)

a long time ago, going from 25 to a bit under 22 made all the diff, for the weight I was carrying and the hills I was on.

having another bike with 19.5 was great, until riding in latin america with only tw

linus

I've never had a bike with 22GI and under so I wouldn't know what it's like. Wouldn't it make the bike so twitch that you lose your balance? Especially with front panniers, It will be a nightmare to keep the bike straight.

DropBarFan

Front panniers stabilize the steering. Low gears can be twitchy but cause less fatigue overall.

saddlesores

it's just a skill that can be leanred. like tyuping.

3speed

Gears so low it’s faster(and probably easier) to walk. 50-70lb load. I don’t even know what to say to this thread... It doesn’t sound like fun touring, though. One of you guys should take my loaded bike for a ride. You’d probably start giggling like a school girl the first hill you went “flying” up!

There’s a reason there aren’t even mountain bike set-ups designed for literally climbing mountains with that gearing.

bradtx

WNCGoater, Under load the slow pace of the granny is easier to cope with than just using it for 'fun'.
The best advice I've had was the suggested 20-100 gi range.

Brad

djb

just noticed that I accidently cut off the end of my earlier blurb. should be:

re your question--it all comes down to how heavy your bike+load is AND the terrain.

my life experience touring shows me that using a 25 g.i bike with 40-50lbs of stuff is not enjoyable, naysayers notwithstanding, its hard on your knees and taking care of your knees means you'll ride longer in your life and your day will be less taxing if you can increase cadence on hard climbs.

Plain and simple, despite the "attitude" that this is wimpy and that you have a small penis if you do this ;-)

a long time ago, going from 25 to a bit under 22 made all the diff, for the weight I was carrying and the hills I was on.

having another bike with 19.5 was great, until riding in latin america with only two panniers and a handlebar bag, when i very soon realized that if I had front panniers as well as a tent, and extra water and extra tire etc etc then lower would be required, becuase its common to find really steep pitches. We're talking 20% stuff or more.

so I set up my new bike with a mtn bike crank, 44/32/22 and a 11-34, and with 26in wheels, its gives 16.7 g.i. low, which I used a lot. Sure, you're not in it that often, but its there, and it makes things easier for your knees, and you just shift up when needed, us touring cyclists know how to do that and when.....

at least once, I was on a paved road so steep that I had to stand in first gear, and could only hold it for about a minute before having to stop because my heart was about to explode--stop, repeat, stop, repeat.
And this was after cycling all through Central America , through mountains a lot, so my climbing legs were pretty damn good at that point.

but yes, in more or less regular situations, the old 20-100 works out fine, so look into changing your granny, its easy and cheap.

WNCGoater

The reason I asked, being new to touring bike setup, and without getting into a long discussion which I had on the long distance/randoneuring forum, I currently have a granny of 25+ gear inch. I can switch the rear 11/32 cassette to an 11/36 and drop to 22.8 gear inch. As I am currently, on some long climbs in the mountainous terrain around here, I could use a little lower gearing.
I believe my long cage RD can handle that, though I won't know for sure until I try. Putting a lower ring in front is not an option with my current crankset as it is not at this time available.

And so, I was wondering if jumping from 25 down to 22.8 would make a noticeable difference or if it would even be worth the effort.

So my question, while admittedly generalized & I understand there is no "pat" answer that applies to all situations, was, "Is there a point that is a generally "acceptable" low gear inch for general touring?"

Obviously different people have different opinions, but one says "22in. is pretty low already" while another says "they want under 20in".

djb

this is the crucial part, under load its not hard, and normal bike handliing skills will take care of it and you can do it.

djb

hey goat, we were typing at same time.
first of all, it seems that by this time, you have personally seen that lower gearing would be nicer and easier on your knees. Thats the main thing.
Lowering your low gears will not affect your speed overall, in fact, having lower gears will SAVE and keep your legs stronger during a day, because you wont lug down on climbs , so overall you'll be stronger in a day even if you use low gearing here and there.

also, what crankset doyou have? Make sure of what you say, cuz its the cheapest and easiest change to do. Waht bike do you have, ?

going from 25 to 22.8 isnt a big change, yes it will help, but honestly, you want to look to getting it closer to 20.

at this point, I htink the crankset issue needs to get answered, so take a photo of your bike, or give the model name if its stock, etc.

bottom line, having lower gearing will be more enjoyable, wont affect your average speed in the day, wont affect how fast you go downhills and around corners.
Its a win win.

and you'll be thankful everytime you have to go up some stupidly steep hill at the end of the day, to the campground, or when you are a bit tired, or hungry, or whatever......

boomhauer

for western North Carolina and 25 lbs of gear I would say 18 GI is what you want. After a mile or two at 8% grade you will appreciate it.

WNCGoater

It's a 2017 Marin 4 Corners. It has a 50/39/30 Shimano road crankset and 11/32 in rear. The problem is it as an asymmetrical bolt pattern (see photo) with 74mm BCD. My intent was to change the 30 to a 24 or 26. I have yet to find a chainring smaller than a 30t with that asymmetrical pattern. In the other thread it was mentioned that this is a relatively new crankset from Shimano, and as yet, apparently no smaller chainrings have appeared on the market that would work. So short of changing to a mtn crankset, which would also include likely changing F & R derailleurs and possibly new shifters (currently has road brifters), my only choice is to put on a 11/36 cassette(or similar). I'm just not experienced enough to gauge realistically, how much difference that will make, but that is a fairly simple "fix" and it may be I find for the amount of touring I realistically do, and where that takes place, it may be sufficient without going the route of full drivetrain replacement. Here is the whole thread if you want to see it and following a photo of the inner 30t chainring and bolt configuration.
Gearing Questions II

crankset.jpg

linus

I guess you are still working on it.

linus

No they don't. I only use front panniers and they just make them slow to maneuver. They help you with rear swing weight, but doesn't not stabilize to help twitchy steering.

High cadence helps with muscle fatigue not low gearing.

WNCGoater

Really? Are you serious or am I misunderstanding something here?
Then why have anything other than high gearing? Just maintain cadence, regardless of gearing and that helps with muscle fatigue, right?
Again Really?
Then what's the purpose of lower gears?
Is not lower gearing the very thing that enables a high cadence as terrain steepens? To maintain a cadence, high or otherwise, as terrains steepens requires lower gearing. If the terrain gets steep enough, forget cadence, lower gears become necessary for the continuation of forward movement. Otherwise you're off and walking.
Without the lower gearing you will experience muscle fatigue as a result of pushing too high a gear, not to mention knee pain and possible damage. So a lower gear does indeed help with muscle fatigue as high cadence is not possible without the gearing.
Is that not what this discussion is all about?

ricrunner

I have 11-34 with an 50-34 up front. It is not ideal up front but coming from 11-32 made a big difference. I will change the front chain rings to an 46-30 when my current set up wears out.

saddlesores

you might consider tyring a bike with low gearing on stepe hills before maeking our decision.

maybe could borrow you a bike with 16-17 inch low gears, load up, make a few runs up a 25km-long 12-14%
grade. try it with front only load, rear only, split fitty-fitty.

then you can compare that to pushing your bike with the 26-28 inch gears up that 25-km hill,
see which option is less fatigue-y.

djb

I dont have the knowledge to know about the bolt specifics of that crankset, but at least, it certainly has the room for a 26 or 24 looking at the bolt positions close to the teeth.
I replaced the 30 on a 50/39/30 9 speed crankset from one of my bikes, FSA, found a 26 and it made all the diff.
That bike is like yours, 50/39/30, 9 speed, 11-32.
It went from 25gi to a bit under 22, and helped a lot for touring. I would change the cassette to a 11-34 sram or whatever to get it down a bit more, and of course, I could put a 24 on it also, but the 39 to 26 jump of 13t is ok, and I rode a bike with a 16t jump for years, and its a bit too much of a jump I find (50/40/24)

the other option is to get a under 100 dollar deore 48/36/26 crankset at some point if you see you will tour more. Your fd should be able to be slightly lowered on the frame, unless its a brazed on one, but it might even if it is, have a bit of adjustment.
Also, your fd will be able to handle going to a 26 if you ever find one for your present crank, my fd didnt even have to be touched or adjusted, my 9 speed tiagra brifters shifted perfectly fine with the 30 to 26 change.

and after all this blah blah, you could try a tour and see how you find the bike. Some people dont get their knickers in a knot if they have to push a bike a few times, but if in really steep stuff, lower gearing is always going to be an advantage and more enjoyable.

Id ask around about what smaller rings are available. like i said, I just have the knowledge about that bolt pattern.

djb

Originally Posted by linus
Why would you need that gearing? For rock climbing?

Originally Posted by linus
I've never had a bike with 22GI and under so I wouldn't know what it's like. ....

Originally Posted by linus
...High cadence helps with muscle fatigue not low gearing.

Goater, these sort of comments are the type that you need to ignore, or more realistically, load up your bike and hit some hills and see how it feels for you. Just remember, depending on your age, your fitness, or how you are feeling that day will make a difference.

Just remember, low gearing has no bearing on your virility ;-)

WNCGoater

The 4 bolt 74mm BCD isn't the problem, it is the asymmetric bolt pattern. I've poured for hours thumbing through Google and Amazon and come to the conclusion it doesn't exist. Over on the randonneuring forum, someone indicated this front triple is brand new from Shimano in 2017 and thus, as yet, no other rings are available. Sunrace makes an 11/36 cassette that I'm gonna try. At $20 bucks it's a cheap experiment and may be all I need.



Fixed it for you ^^.

My biggest issue when riding this touring bike was transitioning from a lightweight carbon road bike. I'm training myself to just slow down on climbs whereas on the road bike I just spun on up as quickly as possible. I've learned the heavier bike and with a load, and particularly when laying down significant miles, will "burn too many matches" if I try to power up a hill per usual. So I'm learning to literally ride differently than with a light road bike.

As it is, I HAVE undertaken a number of long climbs during 40-60 mile rides and while they went well enough, it became apparent that on a long tour carrying loaded panniers, I could use a little bit lower gearing. Realistically it is probably less than 5% of the ride, but during those climbs a little lower gear could mean the difference between multiple stops to rest, walking a bit, or the ability to gear low enough to slowly winch myself on up the hill.

So, apologies to the OP for the thread hijack (though we have stayed on topic in a sense). I intend to try the cassette first which may be just enough to cover that 5%. If not there is always the option of switching out for a 48/36/26 crankset.

Thanks all for the input!