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Touring Newb: Miyata 615 GT, NYC to Montreal

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Touring Newb: Miyata 615 GT, NYC to Montreal

Old 02-16-18, 10:28 AM
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zygomorph
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Touring Newb: Miyata 615 GT, NYC to Montreal

Yesterday I became the reasonably happy owner of a 1987 Miyata 615 GT. It's in quite good condition (no major scratches or dings, just a general dust/dirt patina) and seems to be entirely stock (down to the Miyata Radial 700c tires). It's not in the apparently totally unridden condition that the seller's Panasonic Touring Deluxe was in, but unfortunately, that frame was one size too small for me. (I used to have a Touring Deluxe that I loved until it was stolen.)

It's possibly the most modern bike I've had since I was 10 years old (hello indexed downtube shifters, hello 18 speeds!) and by my standards seems quite well-tuned as-is. The shifting is accurate and effortless, the braking is responsive, predictable, and stronger than anything I've used so far (especially compared to my beautiful, but woefully medieval cherry-red-and-silver 1976 Grand Jubilé).

The ONLY mechanical concern I've had is that there might be a bit of chain slackness: stopping the pedals suddenly, or mild backpedaling while coasting will cause the chain to very gently strike the ... what do you call the loop of metal on the drive-side chain stay (which I've never seen on any other bike) that apparently keeps the chain from accidentally scraping up the chain stay? Also, the pedals don't spin freely, so I guess those need to be cleaned and lubed.

My buddy (who is more experienced in these things than I am, thankfully) and I haven't yet decided whether we're going to bike both ways. But let's assume at least a 400 mile journey in June. What should my preventative maintenance priorities be when I take this into the shop? I have no desire to "upgrade" anything (though I may hate myself for not having bar-end shifters, and I may also wonder why I'm riding on a suede saddle...?) But should I really consider replacing the tires/tubes, and request that all the fiddly bits get cleaned and lubricated?

As for "adding"... toe clips or clipless? I have never ridden with clipless.

And, if it means anything to anybody here, I am a landscape photographer and plan to take my 4x5 camera with me. Any tips?

Thanks! (From a first-time poster, long-time lurker.)
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Old 02-16-18, 04:24 PM
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beautiful. i would want to repack the wheel and crankbearings unless they are sealed units. tires and tubes is always a good idea as well.

nice score man!
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Old 02-16-18, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by 52telecaster View Post
beautiful. i would want to repack the wheel and crankbearings unless they are sealed units. tires and tubes is always a good idea as well.

nice score man!
+ 1 on all this.

To the OP: it will be expensive to have a shop overhaul your bike. This is a pretty straightforward job and you can do it on your own as well as replace the tires. You'll need these skills on your ride and it will save you a lot of dough.
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Old 02-16-18, 04:44 PM
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Kool Stop brake pads are a great addition!
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Old 02-16-18, 04:52 PM
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nice bike!
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Old 02-16-18, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by zygomorph View Post
I am a landscape photographer and plan to take my 4x5 camera with me. Any tips?
A black cycling jersery can double as a focusing cloth for view cameras.
(sweet ride!)
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Old 02-16-18, 05:55 PM
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Originally Posted by BobbyG View Post
A black cycling jersery can double as a focusing cloth for view cameras.
(sweet ride!)
Oh, cool! Thanks for that. Though I did once use a friend's sweaty tee shirt for this once and the odor was ... Distracting.
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Old 02-16-18, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by bikemig View Post
+ 1 on all this.

To the OP: it will be expensive to have a shop overhaul your bike. This is a pretty straightforward job and you can do it on your own as well as replace the tires. You'll need these skills on your ride and it will save you a lot of dough.
Yes, clean/lube/adjust for everything is a good idea. One could also do the easier bits & have a shop do the crank etc. Sometimes old bike parts are stuck on pretty good.
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Old 02-16-18, 06:44 PM
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I guess the most difficult parts for me to do myself would be the hubs and crank bearing, as I've no experience with this.

Definitely, I already know how to change a tube and/or tire.

I'd almost be wary of anybody touching the derailleurs or brakes at this point, because they are all currently working better than any other bike I've had in my adult life. Certainly, *I'm* not going to touch them myself at any point soon.

So... I'm leaning toward taking it to my local tour-oriented bike shop (718 Cyclery here in Brooklyn) and letting them do the greasy, fiddly bits. Though. I may change my mind on that.
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Old 02-16-18, 06:49 PM
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There are good youtube videos on this. Fixing up an old bike isn't rocket science but it's obviously your call.
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Old 02-17-18, 12:52 PM
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For the cost of labor at the shop

you could buy all the specialty tools you will need (crank puller, headset wrenches, cone wrenches for the hubs, bottom bracket wrench) to do the job this time and each time you need to repeat it to keep the bike in tip top shape. You can find a YouTube video for everything you have to do. If you do just want to have the shop do it, I agree with all the above:repack bottom bracket, hub and headset bearings. Have them check the chain for stretch, and look at the cassette. The teeth might be worn enough to warrant replacing. The 615 is a fabulous bike. The ride will be as smooth as anything brand new.
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Old 02-18-18, 10:26 AM
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Originally Posted by revcp View Post
you could buy all the specialty tools you will need (crank puller, headset wrenches, cone wrenches for the hubs, bottom bracket wrench) to do the job this time and each time you need to repeat it to keep the bike in tip top shape. You can find a YouTube video for everything you have to do. If you do just want to have the shop do it, I agree with all the above:repack bottom bracket, hub and headset bearings. Have them check the chain for stretch, and look at the cassette. The teeth might be worn enough to warrant replacing. The 615 is a fabulous bike. The ride will be as smooth as anything brand new.
My main concern was indeed buying all of the specialty tools to do this. (And thanks for the short list of them!) Also having very little space in my Brooklyn apartment for undertaking all but the most basic bike repairs.

I have until June, so it may indeed be a good time to give this stuff a whack myself.

Again, however, whatever the condition the bike is in internally, it's far from ailing in any obvious way.
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Old 02-18-18, 07:14 PM
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According to the '87 Miyata catalog Miyata Bicycle Catalogs: Miyata Alumithech & Miyata Catalog 1987 the 615GT headset and hubs have sealed bearings
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Old 02-18-18, 09:33 PM
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Originally Posted by zygomorph View Post
My main concern was indeed buying all of the specialty tools to do this. (And thanks for the short list of them!) Also having very little space in my Brooklyn apartment for undertaking all but the most basic bike repairs.

I have until June, so it may indeed be a good time to give this stuff a whack myself.

Again, however, whatever the condition the bike is in internally, it's far from ailing in any obvious way.
No shame in using a pro mechanic...bikes are simple in theory but when working on unfamiliar parts the little details can cause a lot of delay. The Mechanical Gardens Bike Co-op sounds like a neat option. Supposedly folks can bring in their bikes & work on them with mechanics helping when necessary--it's free unless parts are needed & those are pretty cheap.

Working in apartment, a piece of plastic sheet will protect the floor. A tray helps to keep tools & parts organized while working. BTW, a chain quick-link is a good idea, they're cheap & make taking the chain off much easier.
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Old 02-19-18, 08:46 AM
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For my peace of mind, I'd replace all the consumables: tires, tubes (although if they hold air, keep as spares), chain, cables and housing. As someone above mentioned, Kool-Stop brake pads, they really do make a difference. For the cost of each of the components, it really isn't worth my time to risk a break down or spend the time rehabbing it (in the case of the chain). Remember, even a 31 year old nearly unridden bike still is 31 years old. Plastics and such 31 years old have suffered from aging.

From a personal preference, I don't really like hanging bags on that style rack, I prefer a horizontal bottom bar to hook onto. Saddle, I'd at least give a chance to, ride it a bit and if you don't like it change it then.

Tools that you NEED shouldn't cost more than $50, depending on what bits exactly are on there.
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Old 02-19-18, 08:50 AM
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Oh, three other things:

1) Beautiful bike
2) I REALLY like fenders
3) I learned bike mechanics in a 400 sq ft studio apartment. It can be done!
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Old 02-22-18, 11:26 AM
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Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
Oh, three other things:

1) Beautiful bike
2) I REALLY like fenders
3) I learned bike mechanics in a 400 sq ft studio apartment. It can be done!
1) It really is, I think it's the first bike I've had where I really feel like I can put in more and get more out. Like, accelerating up hills. Which is not a very high bar for me, since I don't think I've ever been on an actual racing-style bicycle. Still getting used to the way it feels when I take corners. It ultimately feels stable, but it does feel like it's pulling against me sometimes -- in the "right" way, if that makes sense, like it wants to stay upright or something. I'll try to keep notes on the ride qualities as I recognize them.

2) Any recommendations? I've only every used Bontrager plastic ones. I think they were okay, but the release clips started detaching on their own after some time, things like this.

3) That's inspiring! So far, I'm having some difficult figuring out what tools to get to to attempt to service the bottom bracket. Though, looking at Sheldon's helpful glossary (bless him, RIP) it looks like I have a conventional cup and cone assembly.

While I'm confident that I can get the proper lockring wrench (because I can see it clearly on the bike), is it guaranteed that I should also get that pin wrench? Or is there some other possible kind of adjustable cup / tool?

Does the fact that I have a cup and cone assembly also guarantee that the bottom bracket will NOT be a sealed cartridge? Since I'm fairly certain that everything is still stock on this bike, I tried looking up the make/model specified in the 1987 Miyata catalog and came up empty handed (Tange FR-S).
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Old 02-22-18, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
Oh, three other things:

1) Beautiful bike
2) I REALLY like fenders
3) I learned bike mechanics in a 400 sq ft studio apartment. It can be done!
1) It really is, I think it's the first bike I've had where I really feel like I can put in more and get more out. Like, accelerating up hills. Which is not a very high bar for me, since I don't think I've ever been on an actual racing-style bicycle. Still getting used to the way it feels when I take corners. It ultimately feels stable, but it does feel like it's pulling against me sometimes -- in the "right" way, if that makes sense, like it wants to stay upright or something. I'll try to keep notes on the ride qualities as I recognize them.

2) Any recommendations? I've only every used Bontrager plastic ones. I think they were okay, but the release clips started detaching on their own after some time, things like this.

3) That's inspiring! So far, I'm having some difficult figuring out what tools to get to to attempt to service the bottom bracket. Though, looking at Sheldon's helpful glossary (bless him, RIP) it looks like I have a conventional cup and cone assembly.

While I'm confident that I can get the proper lockring wrench (because I can see it clearly on the bike), is it guaranteed that I should also get that pin wrench? Or is there some other possible kind of adjustable cup / tool? I've also seen a Park tool that seems to have the lockring wrench (C-spanner) at one end and a pin wrench at the other end, implying that you can adjust one at a time. Is this actually possible, or merely inconvenient or difficult?

Does the fact that I have a cup and cone assembly also guarantee that the bottom bracket will NOT be a sealed cartridge? Since I'm fairly certain that everything is still stock on this bike, I tried looking up the make/model specified in the 1987 Miyata catalog and came up empty handed (Tange FR-S).
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Old 02-22-18, 12:09 PM
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Upon further inspection, I can now see that my adjusting cup doesn't have holes for a pin wrench, but rather would require the Park Tool HCW-11 (I'd post a link, but I can't here until I'm up to 10 posts). Their (Park Tool's) comment, "These are common on older English bicycles and less expensive bicycles" makes me wonder if the 615 GT really would have come with one of these.

In any case, I'm wondering if maybe I should just replace the whole assembly with a new cartridge system? Thoughts, opinions? I guess either way, I'll have to buy one of these tools just to get the damned thing off, and then I'd have to buy another tool (or tools?) to get a different style one on. Given that I'd like to just have the experience of cleaning out one of these, I guess I'll just keep it all as-is for now.
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Old 02-25-18, 05:07 PM
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Originally Posted by zygomorph View Post
Upon further inspection, I can now see that my adjusting cup doesn't have holes for a pin wrench, but rather would require the Park Tool HCW-11 (I'd post a link, but I can't here until I'm up to 10 posts). Their (Park Tool's) comment, "These are common on older English bicycles and less expensive bicycles" makes me wonder if the 615 GT really would have come with one of these.

In any case, I'm wondering if maybe I should just replace the whole assembly with a new cartridge system? Thoughts, opinions? I guess either way, I'll have to buy one of these tools just to get the damned thing off, and then I'd have to buy another tool (or tools?) to get a different style one on. Given that I'd like to just have the experience of cleaning out one of these, I guess I'll just keep it all as-is for now.
an inexpensive sealed bearing bottom bracket cartridge is never a bad idea but the one you have probably has a lot of life left in it.

just want to say again what a nice bike that is.
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Old 02-27-18, 06:08 PM
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Originally Posted by Cougrrcj View Post
According to the '87 Miyata catalog [url redacted] the 615GT headset and hubs have sealed bearings
Apparently, the exact use of "sealed" is a bit vague. According to some other threads here and elsewhere, these Sansin hubs are still serviceable in the normal way, i.e. they're (probably) not cartridges.

Either way, I'll keep a sort of diary here about what I find. Probably about once a month or so, depending on my budget for bike tools and supplies
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Old 03-13-18, 06:20 PM
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No surprises with the bottom bracket. It was a standard cup-and-cone setup, and the "sealed" bit probably had to do with the rubber gaskets which fit into the cups. The bearings were in cages, so I replaced those with 11 new, loose bearings on each side.

While I was at it, I decided to disassemble the Biopace chain rings. Whoops, I should have taken notes! It took me a couple of tries to get it all back together correctly. I also entered a bit of a rabbit hole of opinions concerning which way they should be oriented with respect to the crank. So I tried the one other major option, which is about 90 degrees out of phase with the original Biopace design. It felt more "normal", in that there felt like an even amount of resistance all the way around while climbing or accelerating. In the original configuration, at higher cadences, it feels as though there are "dead" spots, but I think that only happens when I'm riding at the edge of the speed of a particular gear combination. And I believe that in any case, proponents of the original configuration would say that this only indicates that my pedal stroke is uneven.

Anyway, the damn thing was making occasional clunking sounds as I was test riding it. At first I thought that I needed to tighten the adjustable cup. But when that only caused it to seize and griind, I readjusted it in the opposite direction, taking great care to check for an even feel all the way around.

That's when I realized that the noise might be coming from loose chain rings! I tightened them mightily. No more mystery clunks. I also returned them to the original Biopace configuration (long axis aligned with the crank), mostly out of guilt for doubting the research and engineering that went into them.

In conclusion: the whole thing is now lovely and smooth, and with the chain off makes a very pleasant, quiet "whoosh" sound when spun.
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Old 04-27-18, 04:49 AM
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Maintenancing and outfitting little by little as I'm on a tight budget.

Done so far:
Bottom bracket repack
Chain replacement (cogs seem fine, thankfully, in spite of the old chain being stretched at least one whole link length)
Pedal repack (they were very obviously sticky)
Fenders (took an afternoon but I'm very pleased by the lines)
Brooks saddle (took a week or two to figure out how to position it under my tuckus, these are in fact very sensitive to adjustment but very comfy once right)
Ortlieb panniers
bottle cages

To do:
Cables
Brake pads
Hubs
Tires

Cables and hubs I may leave to a shop, but I do have another few months to decide whether to blow money on tools or on camping gear. They're also clearly not on the verge of exploding, either.

(My foodie friend is still threatening to bring a cast iron pan. He ended up getting some classic Cannondale aluminum tourer, so maybe he can spare the weight...)
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Old 04-27-18, 04:49 AM
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Sorry the brick wall perspective well.
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Old 04-27-18, 04:53 AM
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I also put the geometry of this bike into this ... thing. In case anybody's interested in this kind of thing.

http://www.bicyclecalculator.co.uk/c...nsion_length=0
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