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GPS for long distance touring?

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GPS for long distance touring?

Old 03-05-18, 07:35 AM
  #26  
njkayaker
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Originally Posted by TulsaJohn View Post
I think most handle 10,000 track points which sound like a lot but it really isn’t for a long tour. Regardless of the external memory capacity, the waypoint/route/trackpoint limit stays the same unfortunately.
You don't need one track for a long tour (one spanning multiple days).

People would typically use multiple track files (each being able to have 10,000 track points).
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Old 03-05-18, 07:38 AM
  #27  
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
They moved the damned USB port.

With the Edge 1000, they obscured the USB port with the right-handed out-front mounts (like Garmin's own or K-Edge). Which is annoying...so to charge while riding you wanted a left-handed out-front mount, like the BarFly4.

With the 1030, the USB port moved to the stem-plate-facing-edge of the computer. Only way you're charging that puppy via USB is if it is on a standard 1/4 turn plate mount (not the loved out-front ones). This being the touring sub, I suppose there are more people with aerobars than the Road sub-who might use a tri-bar 1/4 turn mount....so I suppose there's a higher-percentage of non-out-front-mount users.


OTOH for as ubiquitous as out-the-front-mounting go it is a dumb dumb move.
Something like this wouldn't work?

https://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...E&gclsrc=aw.ds
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Old 03-05-18, 07:45 AM
  #28  
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post

In land I use paper maps, but young folks like technology , instead..
Paper maps often lack enough detail or you need lots of paper.

There's no reason people have to rely on both.


Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Never learned map reading .


You have no idea what other people have learned.
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Old 03-05-18, 07:48 AM
  #29  
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Originally Posted by spinnaker View Post
The problem with a small screen is you can't effectively plan alternate routes. Yes you can zoom out but you also lose details on minor roads.
Many people also have (largish) smartphones. If you use a small gps, there isn't any reason you can't also use a smartphone.
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Old 03-05-18, 07:49 AM
  #30  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
It might, depending on the dimensions of the new mountings for it (and your handlebar stem plate)...there's a big but...


The start/stop and lap buttons are on either side of the USB port on the same stemplate-facing-edge (for who knows what reason, thanks Garmin)....so a right angle cable (if it fits) will obscure one of the hardware buttons
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Old 03-05-18, 07:52 AM
  #31  
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Originally Posted by etw View Post
How does the edge touring compare?
Not great, from my experience.

One would be better off with a refurbished 800.

I suspect that Touring/Explorer models might not get the attention that the standard units get with respect to fixing bugs.
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Old 03-05-18, 07:54 AM
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
It might, depending on the dimensions of the new mountings for it (and your handlebar stem plate)...there's a big but...


The start/stop and lap buttons are on either side of the USB port on the same stemplate-facing-edge (for who knows what reason, thanks Garmin)....so a right angle cable (if it fits) will obscure one of the hardware buttons
Not all of the right angle cables go left/right.

If you can fit a finger to press a button, you should be able to fit a right angle cable.

The 800/810 have the port in the back. There might be more room, though.
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Old 03-05-18, 08:11 AM
  #33  
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I'd use my phone.

Offline maps, and satellite view with internet.

Caveat: touchscreens are unusable when wet.
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Old 03-05-18, 08:32 AM
  #34  
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Originally Posted by jpescatore View Post
I've gone from Garmin to Wahoo Elemnt. The battery lasts longer - I easily get 8 hours of riding on a charge

John P.
My 1000, when new last summer, was seeing 14 hrs. of just displaying, no navigation. With Nav it was getting 10 hrs. This is about what I expected and is slightly less then the Bolt I used for the first half of the year. I suspect Garmin batteries start to deteriorate and I do find the more wiz-bang stuff running, like Live Track and the Di2 BT connection, tends to drop the life. But I doubt I'd use those functions on a tour.
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Old 03-05-18, 10:13 AM
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
The 1030 was just released....battery life is better, but it uses a bizarro proprietary battery socket....so you cannot use cheap USB sticks to charge on-the-go...and have to buy a $150 proprietary battery
I did not know that. That really sucks.

Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
Problem with phone. Lots of road where there's no service on any carrier or MVNO, not even 3G....sometimes not even 1x. See it every year on Tour de Nebraska. Which is a ding against Wahoo computers, as if you need to reroute you need a data connection--which in the sticks may not exist.
Maps.me does offline mapping and routing. Seems like it would probably solve this problem. I don't like it in Central and South America where it avoids nicely paved two lane roads in favor of dirt tracks over the mountains, but in a country with a modern road system it should work well.
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Old 03-05-18, 10:15 AM
  #36  
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Originally Posted by spinnaker View Post
The problem with a small screen is you can't effectively plan alternate routes. Yes you can zoom out but you also lose details on minor roads.
Ah, yeah. This is a fair point. I use my phone for routing, then the Garmin to navigate while on the bike
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Old 03-05-18, 10:46 AM
  #37  
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Originally Posted by njkayaker View Post
You don't need one track for a long tour (one spanning multiple days).

People would typically use multiple track files (each being able to have 10,000 track points).
I agree you can use multiple track files. I apologize if I misconstrued you could not.

And yes, you are correct that it is 10k per track, not per unit. At least on the newer units. The older units are definitely limited to 10k per unit. Since I have not used tracks since the early days, I was thinking it was the same.
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Old 03-05-18, 07:11 PM
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
This is rub with units that do mapping, how big ?. A tablet or one of the giant smartphones obviously do a better job displaying maps, but are just too big for a lot of users. My experience was a Bolt and the Edge 810 were on the small side to view maps, while the 1000 and Elemnt are about right and I would not want anything bigger. Plus with a smartphone, if you want water resistant, you need an Otterbox or Lifeproof case, which makes the unit even bulkier.

I place my tablet in my water proof map pocket, atop my Ortlieb handlebar bag. Works great. But yes you really need a GPS too, A lot easier to read directions if mounted properly. Though for next trip I might try the voice prompts on my tablet.
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Old 03-05-18, 11:32 PM
  #39  
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I use my smartphone right now, but If I had to choose, I would get a 7" tablet and a weatherproof casing. USB chargeable, updates anywhere you want and with a good sale going on, you can find one for less than $100. Plus you can store and post pics, keep a journal, hotel, campsite reservations, etc, etc.
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Old 03-06-18, 03:49 AM
  #40  
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
Both junk from all I’ve read. Many limitations and quirks. You’d be better off with a 520 or 1000. Or a Bolt.
I sold my Wahoo Elemnt after my last bikepacking 10 day ride which was in December last year. It was the one and only bikepacking ride with it. I was out of mobile range a lot, had to consider alternative route options at various stages and basically having to rely on a phone and/or wi-fi for functionality just did it for me. It was okay but not brilliant at tracking my route and of course if you go off-route (not unusual if you are remote bikepacking) it does not navigate you back or provide an alternative route.

Having in the past done a 3,000 km tour with a Garmin Edge (earlier model) I have now gone back to a Garmin, a Garmin Edge 1030 this time. Knowing that I have full functionality, ability to re-route in particular without needing my phone is a make or break feature for me.
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Old 03-06-18, 09:16 AM
  #41  
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I use a Garmin Etrex for cycling (and hiking, skiing, paddling). It is compatible with ANT+ heart rate monitor.

I can archive all activities offline on my PC. Planning rides is great using Basecamp software prior to trips. It has expandable memory and uses AA batteries.
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Old 03-06-18, 10:02 AM
  #42  
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Another vote for the Garmin eTrex. I have the eTrek 20 and purchased it refurbished to save some $$. It has worked out great for me and even survived flying off the handlebars 3 times before I put a leash on it.
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Old 03-07-18, 06:16 PM
  #43  
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I get wanting a dedicated GPS, but just thought I’d mention that there are GPS apps like maps.me that will let your phone route you without signal. I recently used maps.me on a tour in Costa Rica and it worked great. Then egt yourself a dynamo hub and never worry about charging or losing your phone signal. Then you don’t have to carry two devices(assuming you’ll carry a phone either way).
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Old 03-07-18, 08:04 PM
  #44  
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I like a screen large enough to see. I have a Galaxy 7 phone that is plenty big enough to view maps as you ride. Able to pull in when in cities, and able to pull back when you are on a single lane road for the next 30 miles. I also have an Edge 1000 that I use because it links to RidewithGPS easily and when I get to a PC I can see where I have been. Nobody that I know yet makes a perfect GPS for me. They are all difficult and idiosyncratic to load routes into too. Not one has a battery big enough to last all day. I constantly have to attach mine to the dynamo hub or battery bank during the ride. A combination of Google Maps. GPS data, and yes, paper maps at times. I took a pic of a map that a woman drew in the dirt beside the road once that took me over 70 miles and straight to a post office. You use what you have and wait for tech. to make better. One day I will have a holographic GPS visor that fits my bike helmet. I may even spring for the OLED projection system that will project the map on a smooth surface. I would like a tablet-sized display that you can display whatever you want, speed, direction, route, altitude, weather, battery data, health tracker data, phone, porn, video, action cam display, even rear camera display. Hell, I want infrared. May not save your ass in Florida or against a hidden snake but it would see a bear from a long way off. If you already have a smartphone stick with that and learn how to save maps in Google Maps for when you don't have access.
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Old 03-07-18, 09:17 PM
  #45  
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Originally Posted by Marcus_Ti View Post
They moved the damned USB port.

With the 1030, the USB port moved to the stem-plate-facing-edge of the computer. Only way you're charging that puppy via USB is if it is on a standard 1/4 turn plate mount (not the loved out-front ones). This being the touring sub,

OTOH for as ubiquitous as out-the-front-mounting go it is a dumb dumb move.
Can I assume your talking about when you use an out front mount in front of your stem?

Due to using a Fly12 on my bars, my 1030 is to the right of my stem, if that makes sense, so I'm not seeing the lack of access to the usb port.

I do have yet to try attaching my Ewerk system to my Edge unit due to only doing local rides so far so haven't felt the need to charge it in-situe but I'm struggling to see why it might be hard to attach the usb cable.

I've wondered if you have your unit as per the pic on this page where it sits in front of the stem, in which case I can see it being difficult.
Garmin Edge 1030 Post #79
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Old 03-07-18, 09:27 PM
  #46  
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An out front mount doesn’t work with my h-bar bag so I just reversed the install so the quarter turn sits over the stem. I like it better then the rubber bands.
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Old 03-07-18, 10:08 PM
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
An out front mount doesn’t work with my h-bar bag so I just reversed the install so the quarter turn sits over the stem. I like it better then the rubber bands.
I too use an H-bar but without the in-bar bag which I felt would detract, for "me", the use of the various handpostions, despite liking otherwise the bag.

I'd have aesthetically preferred the bar-bag to my Jerrycan and Gastank.

But I'm trying to workout if what Marcus said was handlebar specific or if I'm simply missing something here, which sometimes happens.

I've the Edge unit in question and want to utilise my E-werk and cache battery to charge it.

I'm wondering if there is an issue I'm unaware of as Marcus has been adamant it can't be done.
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Old 03-07-18, 10:25 PM
  #48  
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Ok, I couldn't stand the suspense, so I've run down to my garage having dug out a usb cable and can see no impediment to to charging my Edge unit via a battery.

I can only assume Marcus's answer was incomplete in that perhaps it doesn't work with certain handlebars or if the Edge unit is positioned directly in front of the stem which might make accessing the port difficult.

Its a shame if thats the case as he may have put off a lot of people from enjoying the ownership of the new unit by stating it couldn't be done, when it can.

I disliked my Edge 1000 for the reason of needing to source a bent/angled cable for it which could be ordered but I've not found one in the couple of stores I went to and thus I kept forgetting to order one.
It wasn't a huge priority due to not having long distance toured for a while but it was a bugbear that I thought a PITA having previously had an 800 unit which was intuitive to set up by comparison.

No worries for me now I've put the issue to bed by finding one of my cables.
Because I use an Apple phone, I couldn't immediately recall where I'd hidden my alternative usb cables.

Regarding the possibility of difficulty of getting into Marcus's port, wouldn't an angled cable have sorted the issue of his Edge port being close to his stem?

I don't know, but hopefully he spots my post and offers an update.

The bottom line is for me, there is no problem accessing the usb port and charging the Edge 1030 unit with a standard non angled usb cable.

Last edited by rifraf; 03-07-18 at 10:36 PM.
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Old 03-08-18, 09:03 AM
  #49  
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Originally Posted by rifraf View Post
Regarding the possibility of difficulty of getting into Marcus's port, wouldn't an angled cable have sorted the issue of his Edge port being close to his stem?
I mentioned this earlier.

The 800/810 have the port in the back. Those units aren't quite as long (there's a more room for a cable).
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Old 03-10-18, 10:20 PM
  #50  
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Originally Posted by TulsaJohn View Post
As others have mentioned, you do not indicate what is important to you, i.e. display screen size (not that important while touring as I can always stop if needed), accessories like heart rate or cadence, etc. For me, the unit’s capacity of way points, can use standard-sized AA rechargeable batteries, and battery life are the most important. I currently use a 64s.

I have toured for over 40 years. At this point, I create my own routes using waypoints (not track points) and I have over a thousand little connector routes (most under 50 miles) covering North America. ALL my routes are created prior to actually riding. Think of them like a car’s broken windshield, lots of little lines interconnecting. When I want to go on a tour, I download the various routes together along with the corresponding “service points” (waypoints I added that are verified locations of grocery stores, campgrounds, POIs, etc.) averaging about 40 Directional Waypoints and 50 Service Waypoints per route.

Garmin typically limits routes to 50 waypoints or less for turn by turn directions. A unit’s capacity is limited as to how many waypoints, or track points, it can handle. Most units handle 200 routes but the overall capacity of waypoints ranges from, I think, 1,000 to 6,000 depending on the unit. I think most handle 10,000 track points which sound like a lot but it really isn’t for a long tour. Regardless of the external memory capacity, the waypoint/route/trackpoint limit stays the same unfortunately.

Since I tend to tour small highways/back roads with lots of turns, I may bring 40 routes on a tour or up to 4,000 waypoints. I have once run out of waypoint capacity on a unit but it was an older unit. My tours tend to be 6 weeks or less for now but anything longer or if east of the Mississippi (more turns), the capacity would run out pretty soon.

Sooo, if you do custom routes, I would focus on waypoint/track point capacity. If you just want to follow an ACA route, do not get a GPS but use your phone or tablet and download their new route apps for $4.99 each and use your phone to search for grocery stores, etc. when you need them. I “think” the apps can be used off-line and are really nice if you can just follow a line.

For me, the screen size is not a huge deal. I have a Montana also which has a nice touch screen display but it is a battery hog, about 3 rechargeable batteries per day. That is a lot of batteries to keep charged or buy and carry. For me, the 64s uses about 1.5 rechargeable batteries per day on average. My old eTrex 30 (circa 2005??) would go 3-4 days on 2 batteries.


Best, John
+1

I agree with everything John said.

I never toured extensively but have been using Garmin GPS technology for over 15 years. It has evolved for the better during these years and that I know. The OP wanted to know which GPS he should buy and it's hands down the Garmin GPSMAP® 64st. It uses AA batteries and you can stock up on rechargeable or use disposables which can be purchased almost everywhere in an emergency. You're not dependent on carrying an extra external battery but the real disadvantage of the 1000 is having to wait for it to recharge its internal battery. If my AA rechargeable batteries run out, I can buy new disposables and I'm up and running in 2 minutes. If I carry 6 rechargeable batteries, it would take two whole days or more before they are exhausted!.

The second reason why I would get the GPSMAP 64 are all the positive reviews on Amazon. I've never seen so many good reviews and the 1000 is just the opposite with quite a number of poor comments. Looking at all the poor reviews Garmin had on it's touring GPS, one begins to wonder if they are able to make a reliable small bike GPS! I know their bigger hiking GPS units have great reviews but not so for the cycling crowd.

I have the Etrek Touch 25 and wish I held out for the 64st! LOL! It holds 5000 way points and 200 routes which isn't too bad. There's a handlebar mount and it works with Basecamp so you don't have to buy maps. I would get the MicroSD street maps anyway but that's just me.

I was thinking a way to get around the 50 way-point per route / 200 routes total is to store additional ones on a small Windows tablet with Basecamp already loaded. You would also have to bring the USB cable to load the extra routes when they are needed while deleting old ones.

When making new routes, use Google maps to see if the road looks like a high speed restricted highway. I know there are times you can't avoid them but always check anyway. Creating a route on your computer using BaseCamp while confirming it's safety with Google maps is time consuming. However, I wouldn't do it any other way and I've seen way too many bike tourist selecting high speed roads because they didn't know any other route. A safe route is often hilly requiring multiple turns that often have no street signs. Trust me, this is actually the preferred method of bike touring and it's much easier today with GPS technology.

Steve,

Last edited by Dahon.Steve; 03-10-18 at 10:26 PM.
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