Town & Touring ?
 

Is there a sub-set/genre of touring bicycles that work well as city/town bikes ?
Town & Touring , if you will .
I guess this is related to my Upright ! post .
Appreciate any brands in general or specific bicycles I should check out for Town & Touring ?

I think my question would be: what feature of a touring bike would make it unsuitable for town riding? My Long Haul Trucker was my touring bike and my commuter for years, and now my Troll serves the same purpose. The Trucker I would pretty much ride "as is" the whole time. The Troll gets set up a little differently when I'm touring. But really, if I'm happy loading it up and riding it all day, I'm probably happy riding it across town.

I use my touring bags for grocery hauling in town on my touring bike.

Everyone is different and I'm sure I'm way out on the bell curve among the traditional tourers here, but I personally enjoy short touring in more densely populated areas like urban/shoreline/vacation areas. For me, going ultra-compact (Brompton folder & UL camping gear) has rekindled my interests in bike touring - something I quit decades ago with a traditional bike/4 pannier rig.

Theft is a major concern in densely populated areas - my rig converts into a 'baby stroller' in 10 seconds and I've pushed it many miles though museums, zoos, malls, stores, libraries and restaurants. Then as a 2-item wheeled carry-on air traveler equivalent, the option to freely utilize the public transport network (trains, buses, ferries, taxis, etc) is fantastic for quickly getting across town, out to the burbs for campgrounds or wild camping, and to avoid riding dangerous road traffic sections. Then the system is compact and lightweight enough for me to carry (backpack-style) deeply into the woods for secluded wild camping (up to 1/4 mile for me), with bike and gear stored inside my tent. Then I have the option of taking everything up inside the nicest hotel, or a walk-up AirBnB, etc. when the points or funds allow. And finally, keeping an eye on weather radar, I can wheel it inside libraries/malls to wait out the nastier rain storms.

On the downside, I forfeit rough off-road with small wheels, gearing and brakes are not suitable for mountainous terrain, and my asphalt pace/efficiency is lower by ~3%. Those are worthy trade-offs..... for me (JMHO/YMMV and all).

reppans: Which of your bikes folds up this way? I remember seeing a GoFundMe or Kickstarter page on such a bike a while back. As my touring preferences are very similar to yours, I have thought about investing in a folder, too. I was considering a simple used one for under $200, but now that I know a "stroller-type" model is available, I might consider looking into a "real" folder.

reppans said Brompton folder , and makes a great point .

Yeah this^^ (CLICKY). And yes, Papa Tom, I know we share similar touring preferences as I have followed your thread in the folder forum. I'm on the other side of the Sound from you, 3 miles from an Amtrak sub-station and MetroNorth and really enjoy riding right from front door using rail links to cycle touring along the coast.

Unfortunately, I could not contribute ideas to your thread, or recommend the Brompton, due to your budget. I do have the Dahon in my sig, which would be in your budget used, but I do not enjoy multi-modal travel, or camping nearly as much with it.... however, it does greatly reduce the theft risk/worries.

My Bike Friday pocket Llama, has some of the attributes of my Brompton, but has some things it cannot offer..

Ah, too bad. I saw that you ride a Brompton as one of your bikes, but I did not think Brompton made a bike that folded up that way. The one I was referring to is the TAGA, but now it looks as if several companies are making bikes that fold into "strollers." I guess like "the donut within a donut within a donut," this idea just took off!

Anyway, at a quick glance, I don't see anything on the Brompton website that matches the description, but I will take your word for it. Everything they make is out of my price range, though, even if I decide to budge off my $200 limit. Thanks for the info, anyway.

Town
I think small-wheel bikes are great for dense, urban areas. i am talking primarily about ISO406, but ISO305, 349, 355 & 451 apply to in varying degrees. Why?
1. physical size. they are literally smaller. they fit and go where bigger bikes can't. if they fold, the advantages are even greater.
2. sociability. due to their uniqueness and size they are more approchable and less intimidating. people will strike up conversations and ask about the bike. perhaps because many view them as toys, people won't object to riding them or bringing them in in places where big bike would be verbotten. Think a narrow, crowded, dense Asian street market.
3. maneuverability. they are very agile, with small turning radius, and lively sterring. their small wheels means they accelerate like a jackrabbit, which is great in urban stop & go.

Conversely, for these reasons, i do not think touring bikes with their big 700c wheels, long wheelbase and their purpose-build 'seriousness' are ideal urban rigs.

Finally there are cities, and then there are cities. my experience and comments above relate to truly dense places where I've lived such as NYC, Mexico City, Jakarta and Singapore.

once you come off your $200 limit, a few possibilities open. but Brompton, due to their high price and proprietary parts, would not be one. also keep in mind that the US is one of the most limited markets for folders. that is, you are both budget- and market- limited. In another region, i would suggest a nice FSIR Spin 3.1...
https://dl.dropbox.com/s/m47khdmpw2e...03_1.jpg?raw=1
...or that you build a bike yourself based on a FnHon Gust frame...
https://dl.dropbox.com/s/o3f31uvbvl4...59_1.jpg?raw=1

thats how I see it also,

and specifically for someone looking for a more upright riding position, the surly bikes come with uncut steerers, which allow for a much higher bar position easily than other touring bikes, so this puts them at an advantage.

and of course, this person could set them up with diff stems for whatever bar position they want, aided by the already longer steerer .