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Route of the Amtrak Vermonter Tour?

Old 04-01-18, 07:55 PM
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Route of the Amtrak Vermonter Tour?

I have a new found love for train travel. This year I will be riding the Willamette Valley Bikeway to line me up with a ride on the Amtrak Starlight and the Zephyr to get me back home.

I might want to add a tour somewhere this year. Since I am in the east I was looking for a train in the east. I have already used Amtrak last year coming back from Cumberland after a ride on the GAP.

This year I was thinking somewhere along the route of the Amtrak Vermonter.

For those not familiar with the route, here it is.




My first thought was Vermont. The bonus there is hopefully meet up with VT_Speed_TR, if he is still around. But I don't really know Vermont that well. Any good riding along that route? Is there a section I should hit? Doubt I will have the time to hit the whole length of Vermont.

What about Connecticut or Massachusetts along that route?


Part of my constraints are going to be where I can off and on the train with the bike. I have yet to figure that out.
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Old 04-01-18, 08:41 PM
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A bunch of years ago, I rode Montreal to Boston, and route 100 is a very pretty ride down Vermont.
Check out and search for the Vermont state riding map online, that shows recommended roads in the state. Should be easy to find. I have a paper version, they used to be in all the tourist info places.
Some really nice riding in that neck of the woods.

Have fun planning.
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Old 04-01-18, 08:43 PM
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In VT it’s mostly following the Conn. and White River valleys as well as most of I91 & I89 and though it’s Vermont which is always pretty, there are more scenic and enjoyable areas to cycle in.

Outside of heading to or starting at one of the train stations where you can board/get off, I can’t see any reason to follow this route.

Ditto Mass and Conn., lots of better riding areas.
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Old 04-02-18, 06:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
In VT itís mostly following the Conn. and White River valleys as well as most of I91 & I89 and though itís Vermont which is always pretty, there are more scenic and enjoyable areas to cycle in.

Outside of heading to or starting at one of the train stations where you can board/get off, I canít see any reason to follow this route.

Ditto Mass and Conn., lots of better riding areas.

The problem with getting away from the Amtrak route is that it adds more miles. How far off the route would I need to go and still get good riding?
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Old 04-02-18, 08:18 AM
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As DJB noted, the Rt 100 corridor is a good choice, I’ve ridden a lot of it, and like all Vt roads, there’s not much shoulder, but drivers are used to cyclists so give you room. One nice thing about VT., is there are country stores at like every Hwy, junction, so getting food and water is easy.

The route though is dictated by where you stay. Camping in state parks means the route is park to park for the distance you choose to do each day. Waterbury to Brattleboro via Rts 100 & 30 is 135 miles with a campground at Camp Plymouth in Tyson at mile 75 or so. But what are your plans for daily mileage. Hard to recommend anything else without that info.
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Old 04-02-18, 08:38 AM
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I have routing from Brattleboro to Philly. Did it a few years ago. Spent night in Westhampton, MA, E. Canaan, CT, a few miles west of Hyde Park, NY, Godeffroy, NY, Worthington State Forest in NJU along the Delaware River (short day, great place to stay) and Upper Black Eddy, PA. From E. Canaan, the route is ACA's Atlantic Coast route. If you so desire, you can cross the Delaware from Philipsburg to Easton, PA and take the canal path to Upper Black Eddy. It goes right by the entrance to a campground that charges cyclists only $10. Across the river, not far from there, is Milford, NJ, which has groceries and restaurants.

I am currently working up a route from St. Albans to Brattleboro for riding at the beginning of June. The basic plan is to do a short day to Burlington with a detour out to the "gap" in the Island Line Trail. Then Half Moon S.P. a few miles north of Fairhaven, Lake St. Catherine S.P., Dorset and Brattleboro. Most of those days are relatively short. I have the time and don't want to beat myself early up because I will be stopping in Deerfield, MA after that for two days of my 35th high school reunion before continuing on home to Philly.


Here is Brattleboro to W. Hampton:


https://ridewithgps.com/routes/15778904


Westhampton to E. Canaan:


https://ridewithgps.com/routes/16070756


Challenging day with a few miles of dirt, but pretty. The campground is a resort, but it gives cyclists a discount.


E. Canaan to the Hyde Park area, which includes some of the Harlem Valley Trail. You need to go south a bit on U.S. 9 to get groceries and then double back.


https://ridewithgps.com/routes/16140501


Hyde Park to the Port Jervis area:


https://ridewithgps.com/routes/16195132


Crosses the Hudson over the former railroad bridge and continues on a bike trail for a while. (Ignore the road routing on the west side of the river. I ended up staying on the trail.) Miles 21 to 38 are really sweet. I was having a hard day due to headwinds so I stopped at the KOA in Godeffroy. Didn't matter much since the next day was short anyway. No real grocery store around, but there is a pizza, etc., joint in Cuddebackville, which is on route.


Port Jervis to Worthington:


https://ridewithgps.com/routes/16259681


Unparalleled riding through the NJ side of the Delaware Water Gap Nat'l Recreation Area. Keep you eyes peeled for bears. The campground is right along the river and excellent. Just try to avoid weekends as it's usually booked, and you cannot reserve one day on weekends. Bring all your food (shop in Matamoras, PA, across the river from Port Jervis) as there is nothing around.

Last edited by indyfabz; 04-02-18 at 09:07 AM.
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Old 04-02-18, 08:41 AM
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Originally Posted by Steve B. View Post
As DJB noted, the Rt 100 corridor is a good choice, I’ve ridden a lot of it, and like all Vt roads, there’s not much shoulder, but drivers are used to cyclists so give you room. One nice thing about VT., is there are country stores at like every Hwy, junction, so getting food and water is easy.

The route though is dictated by where you stay. Camping in state parks means the route is park to park for the distance you choose to do each day. Waterbury to Brattleboro via Rts 100 & 30 is 135 miles with a campground at Camp Plymouth in Tyson at mile 75 or so. But what are your plans for daily mileage. Hard to recommend anything else without that info.
re accomodations, there are also small b+b's, or small family run motels and whatnot also along the way, which can help with longer distances between campgrounds, although I was sharing the costs with someone else, which made it less expensive.

and yes, I have always found Vermont drivers to be rather courteous towards bikers, remarkedly so overall.
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Old 04-02-18, 08:57 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
I have routing from Brattleboro to Philly. Did it a few years ago. Spent night in Westhampton, MA, E. Canaan, CT, a few miles west of Hyde Park, NY, Cuddebackville, NY, Worthington State Forest in NJU along the Delaware River (short day, great place to stay) and Upper Black Eddy, PA. From E. Canaan, the route is ACA's Atlantic Coast route. If you so desire, you can cross the Delaware from Philipsburg to Easton, PA and take the canal path to Upper Black Eddy. It goes right by the entrance to a campground that charges cyclists only $10. Across the river, not far from there, is Milford, NJ, which has groceries and restaurants.

.
This sounds nice but does it line me up with taking the train?

What I am trying to do here is to take a one way trip of maybe 200-250 miles then come back on the train.
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Old 04-02-18, 09:13 AM
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Originally Posted by spinnaker View Post
This sounds nice but does it line me up with taking the train?

What I am trying to do here is to take a one way trip of maybe 200-250 miles then come back on the train.
That's a horse of a different color. You can hop back on the train at Greenfield, MA, which is a few miles north of Deerfield. My route from Brattleboro to Westhampton goes right near it. Haven't yet mapped all of the St. Albans to Brattleboro portion, but I think it might fit those parameters if you don't want to go as far as Greenfield.


IIRC, you can on and off with the bike at any station along the way. I know you can at Brattleboro since that's where I got off, and people got on with bikes there. Make sure you reserve way ahead of time.

Last edited by indyfabz; 04-02-18 at 09:16 AM.
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Old 04-02-18, 09:42 AM
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I think your request isn't specific enough to get many responses. Perhaps, propose a route, then ask for alternative ideas based on that.

And some more details: How far per day? Avoid long, steep climbs? Camping or B&B or motels?

I did a week in Vermont a few years ago, and really liked it. There's mountains, interesting small towns with good restaurants, etc. We had a van to carry our bags, so mountain climbs weren't a problem for us.


I've used the Strava Route Builder to plan routes in unfamiliar areas. It uses the Strava Heat Map, color coding roads by biking popularity, based on uploaded strava GPS recordings.

You need a free strava login to use the Route Builder. It's a typical route app, click a starting point, then intermediate destinations. Drag the route line or Undo to make changes. On the sidebar, turn on the Heat Map option, so that the roads are color coded by popularity so you can consider alternate paths. Perhaps turn on Min Elevation at the top, to avoid climbing.

Example route

For example, here's a quickly made route, starting at Amtrak near Burlington. I liked the causeway bike trail to South Hero Island, smooth crushed stone on an old railroad causeway, with a pontoon boat bike ferry in the middle. Then I dragged the suggested route over to Stowe, then dragged the remaining route toward Montpelier to avoid a long, steep mountain pass.

This doesn't consider overnight stop distances, or nearby alternative routes. It was mostly to get an idea of mileage, and perhaps some comments about the route.
Burlington to White River Amtrak stations
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Old 04-02-18, 09:50 AM
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Basically circumnavigate lake Champlain from Saint Albans. Simple
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Old 04-02-18, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by PedalingWalrus View Post
Basically circumnavigate lake Champlain from Saint Albans. Simple

Ah again. Trains and one way touring, return on the train. It was mentioned in the OP.

I suppose I could use the train to get there but it is a PITA from Pittsburgh with a bike.
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Old 04-02-18, 10:20 AM
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Originally Posted by rm -rf View Post

Example route

For example, here's a quickly made route, starting at Amtrak near Burlington. I liked the causeway bike trail to South Hero Island, smooth crushed stone on an old railroad causeway, with a pontoon boat bike ferry in the middle. Then I dragged the suggested route over to Stowe, then dragged the remaining route toward Montpelier to avoid a long, steep mountain pass.

This doesn't consider overnight stop distances, or nearby alternative routes. It was mostly to get an idea of mileage, and perhaps some comments about the route.
Burlington to White River Amtrak stations

This looks like a neat route. How bad are those climbs really? I was thinking of the Amtrak route because I figure it would be fairly easy since the train needs to do it. But I am not against some moderate climbs.

Also I won't be camping so really looking for some of those wonderful old Vermont towns to stop for the night.

And I am looking on doing maybe 50 miles a day. 60 if the day is not too difficult. 60 used to be my comfort limit. I was able to do more if needed but as I get older, that limit is getting harder to meet.

Last edited by spinnaker; 04-02-18 at 10:24 AM.
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Old 04-02-18, 10:34 AM
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OK here is a summary

1. Would like to use a train in my travel. Either as part of a loop or to use as return to my car on a one way tour.

2. No camping. Would like to stay in some nice Vermont towns.

3. 50-60 miles a day.

4. Maybe 4-6 days total.

5. Easy to moderate climbs.

Last edited by spinnaker; 04-02-18 at 11:00 AM.
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Old 04-02-18, 12:05 PM
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That all sounds good, I'd like to do something similar. In Vermont, the tricky part will be: "5. Easy to moderate climbs"

~~~

Oh, now I understand your original plan, to ride the Amtrak route, through the valleys. The train does follow the Winooski River valley from Montpelier to Burlington, the I-89 corridor.

Here's the Heat Map for that area. click Labels to see the road and town names. The roads paralleling I-89 are popular for biking. I have no idea how busy they are, but at least some of the traffic will take the interstate.

Alternate routes through the mountains will be quieter and likely more scenic. But many more climbs.

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Old 04-02-18, 12:15 PM
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There are some REALLY big hills in VT. Lots. Ever use map my ride or ride with gps? They will show contour and elevation profiles. I go by old train routes( bike paths) or rivers/current train tracks. Much flatter elevation for the most part. Interested in gravel or dirt roads? They are everywhere in VT.
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Old 04-02-18, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Leebo View Post
There are some REALLY big hills in VT. Lots. Ever use map my ride or ride with gps? They will show contour and elevation profiles. I go by old train routes( bike paths) or rivers/current train tracks. Much flatter elevation for the most part. Interested in gravel or dirt roads? They are everywhere in VT.
Vt. is hilly but more when you go east/west etc... over the spine of the mountains, which tend to run N/S.

The Rt 100 corridor is along the east side of the ridge and is more rolling (for Vermont !).

@ Spinnaker, if you note on the Amtrak route, how once they get up to White River Junction, the train line goes NW to Randolph, then a bit back east again to the I89 corridor, then NW again up to Waterbury and down to Burlington.

Rt 100 heads due south for many miles before it meets Rt 30 in West Townshend, then Rt 30 heads SE to Brattleboro. I'd venture it's not any longer then staying on Rts 5/14 & 2.

EDIT: I did a RWGPS for each route, it's 131 miles Brattleboro to Waterbury via Rt's 5/14 & 2, vs. 124 via Rt's 30 & 100.

Also lot's of pretty towns and places to stay on 100, but in truth, you could ride ANY road in Vt. that heads in the general direction and find country stores, scenery and places to stay. No question that Vermont is likely the nicest state for road cycling in New England and NY area.

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Old 04-02-18, 02:01 PM
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Thanks for the tips on Route 100. But isn't that a bit east of the train line? Hard to tell from that little route map. I might need to find another.
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Old 04-02-18, 02:42 PM
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Or are you suggesting Route 100 South of I89? I am seeing that now.
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Old 04-02-18, 05:04 PM
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Originally Posted by spinnaker View Post
Or are you suggesting Route 100 South of I89? I am seeing that now.
Yes, Rt 100 runs due south from Waterbury (as well as north) all the way to the Mass border. Itís is essentially on the east side of the main Green Mt ridge that runs N/S. On Google maps, Rt 100 is for a lot of the way, the eastern boundary of Green Mt. National Forest. Itís a very popular route for touring Vermont, has been for decades, but in truth, and in my experiences, pretty much EVERY paved road in Vermont is good for cycling. The notable exceptions are parts of Rt 4 as well as Rt 7 south of Rutland.
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Old 04-02-18, 08:38 PM
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From Burlington area or St Albans you could ride the Adventure Cycling Green Mountain loop. https://www.adventurecycling.org/rou...ountains-loop/
We did this a few years ago modifying it slightly by going through the islands and avoiding St Albans but the published route goes right through St Albans. It's a very nice week long ride of about 50 miles per day. We stayed in B&Bs and hotels/motels.
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Old 04-03-18, 07:20 AM
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Originally Posted by spinnaker View Post
This looks like a neat route. How bad are those climbs really? I was thinking of the Amtrak route because I figure it would be fairly easy since the train needs to do it. But I am not against some moderate climbs.

Also I won't be camping so really looking for some of those wonderful old Vermont towns to stop for the night.

And I am looking on doing maybe 50 miles a day. 60 if the day is not too difficult. 60 used to be my comfort limit. I was able to do more if needed but as I get older, that limit is getting harder to meet.
Amen. I know this all to well.
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