snow_echo_NY

so it's just a term difference but essentially the same thing? i was under the impression there were two different types of bike set-ups based on which you're doing, i.e. touring set ups vs bikepacking/bike camping set ups.

it sounds like someone else wrote bikepacking was a way to term backpacking but with using bikes. is then touring a way to encompass both supported tours (others bring your stuff for you, or you use hotels/homes) and self-supported (you carry all your own stuff)?

revcp 

I can't really see how it differs much from my Troll or the Ogre. Surly has been great at defining niches, but now I think they're struggling to carve out niches within niches.

nickw

They have their place and I much prefer them over 'bikepacking' bags for road touring.

Happy Feet

Bicycling is what everyone does (on a bike). Some further terminology:

If you go on a trip, long or short, it's bicycle touring. That's a base term. You can either carry your own gear (self supported touring) or have some one else do it (supported touring). Generally, you can carry minimal gear and stay in hotels and eat in cafes (credit card touring) or pack everything and go to far flung places (expedition touring). If you go predominantly off road (bike packing) you probably want to use some different gear because of terrain and the suspension system on off road bikes. A long trip could also be called an off road tour though the use of the former term (bikepacking trip) tends to indicate the type of equipment used.

And just to confuse the issue a bit more, long distance self supported racers like to use bike packing gear on road bikes for pavement riding.

Trying to read negative motivation into why someone chooses which gear or term they use for a hobby is pointless.

indyfabz

Dilly, dilly!


I hope this thread dies now that the above has been stated.

tyrion

The word "bikepacking" has come to have 2 different meaning: off road touring, and a style of bike bags that doesn't need racks.

nickw

Ha - yeah, your getting into the real issue here, semantics. Bike packing is bike touring, bike touring is not necessarily bike packing.

Bike setup is separate from the cycling task. You can 'tour' or 'bikepack' with or without panniers, with or without frame bags or with or without a massive back pack (I've seen it on the PCH).

Same way I can go on a work trip with a backpack but I'm not off to go "backpacking" for 3 days....

Touring, as it originally was coined, was simply "traveling" by bike. Sleeping arrangements, support levels, type of gear being carried has always fell under the "touring" umbrella.

Once bikes got evolved enough, trails opened up, gravel started taking off the niche style of "bikepacking" started to gain steam, along with the "bikepacking" gear that made it a bit more accessible and more efficient, the frame bags, rolls, soft bags, etc.

In general, no hard and fast rules:

Tour = road based bike tour, on improved roads staying at established campgrounds, traditional touring setup w/panniers on a drop bar road bike.
Credit Card Tour = road based bike tour, on improved roads staying at B&B's or Hotel/Motel that you book, minimal gear req., drop bar road bike.
Fully supported Tour = road based bike tour that is managed by a tour guide/service. Meals can be planned and staged at parks, rests stops, etc. Generally hotel based or if in tents, set up ahead of time...all logistics are sorted for you.
Bikepacking = uniproved roads staying at non established remote campgrounds, bike bags w/rackless setup drop bar or MTB style bike.

nickw

Well said...

nickw

Careful, the man would disagree:

https://www.google.com/search?q=ultr...ja38wx-O12z5M:

fietsbob

Touring is the activity, your mode of transportation of how you get from place to place is another choice..

Rob_E

Yes, and I think part of the reason for rackless gear carrying is because it can be tricky to put traditional touring gear on a suspension bike, and panniers might be a hinderance on single-track. So there's overlap between the two.

Last year I rode through Ohio, Pennsylvania, and a little bit of West Virginia and Maryland. Much of it was off road, but there were also some good pavement stretches. Even the off road was mostly wide rail trail. I had to fly with my S & S bike in case, and I couldn't fit the rack in with it, so my gear was carried in a seat bag, a frame bag, a handlebar roll, and some fork cages.

Was I :

1) Bikepacking?
Maybe?

2) Touring?
Probably

3) Having fun?
Definitely.

I wouldn't get hung up on vocabulary unless you're have trouble making yourself understood. Bikepacking is not a replacement for Bike Touring, it's a subset. Like you might go on a credit-card tour or a sag-supported tour. Neither are replacements for bike touring. They are just more narrowly defined subsets.

The having fun part is the only one to worry about.

snow_echo_NY

thanks @Happy_Feet and @nickw - i think i have a better grasp on things now, altho i'm still interested in the different ways in which people choose to tour. since semantics/terminology helps define touring choices when discussing them with fellow cyclists - i'm glad to learn them.

dancier

I've been trying the decide between the Troll and Ogre for some time, but always thought they were for heavier builds. The Bridge Club seems to be the best of both worlds or a between-er as said in the comments of this article.

Introducing the Surly Bridge Club - BIKEPACKING.com

tyrion

And people ride endurance bikes (like TransAmerica race) that can't take racks and panniers comfortably, and they put on an HB bag and a frame bag and a seat bag, and they say "I'm using bikepacking bags".

"bikepacking" in one sense is a kind of adventure, but many people use the term to mean a kind of bag.

revcp 

I don't see a tweener in the article, as much as I see a Troll/Ogre with a simpler rear hanger/dropout. I can certainly understand that there are people would not benefit from the versatility of what the Troll and Ogre have for the rear, and I'm thinking that's the only real difference.

skookum

Come on. The whole point of the internet is to point out when others are wrong.

Happy Feet

No it isn't

Rob_E

I see it as more between the Troll/Ogre and the LHT than between the Troll and Ogre. The comment mentions it as being able to take multiple wheel sizes, and that's what makes it the "between" bike, but the Troll can do that, too. I've run it with 700x40 and 26x2.15 and the diameters are nearly the same. No big deal.

Bridge Club does not have as versatile of dropouts as the Troll/Ogre, but it can do some variety of single speed without a tensioner, I think, unlike the LHT. Bottom bracket is lower than the Troll/Ogre but still higher than the LHT. Will fit much fatter tires than the LHT, but not quite the full 3" of the Troll/Ogre.

So to me it seems like it sets itself up as a better pavement tourer than the Troll/Ogre and a better off-road tourer than the LHT. That said, I have had no regrets taking my Troll on a lot of pavement, so to me it seems like maybe it just helps people who are stuck on deciding between the two, or who want a complete bike without putting up as much cash as either of the other two.

Abu Mahendra

1. No everything-and-the-kitchen-sink horizontal dropouts. Simple, for what 95% of people need/use.
2. An attractive color unlike the traditional Surly colors which look like something from a Soviet industrial ethos. No, comrade, nice colors are a bourgeous deviation.

M69thunder

I use a Bob trailer, probably carry too much, on and off road, camp, sometimes get a room (after riding in the rain all day), cook my own food or eat in a restaurant when convenient and the mood hits me. "I may not know what art is, I just know what I like." Not sure what it's called, I think "Good time" works for me 😆!

dancier

A good description of the bike here.

https://surlybikes.com/blog/welcome_to_the_bridge_club

cyccommute 

Sorry. Nope. Back before "bikepacking" bags were invented, I did off-road touring with racks and panniers over this route. That was in 1986 on a Miyata Ridge Runner presuspension. (It took 6 weeks for me to get the feeling back in my hands after that tour.) Also presuspension, I've done tours with trailers (a couple of different types) as well as post suspension and I've done tours with bikepacking gear.

For off-road touring, the bikepacking bags are better than the other two but panniers are better than a trailer. But over all panniers on racks are far better because the load is lower.

Oh, and having a suspended bike is far better than using a rigid one.

As a side note: I'm somewhat cursed when it comes to Real™ bikepacking. I don't have pictures. Some of the early ones are on film and I haven't scanned them. But for the more modern tours, I always have camera problems. I asked my daughter to change the batteries in my camera and she just took them out!? What a surprise to take out your camera and it doesn't work.

I've even gone so far at to lose my camera after breaking ribs, hike-a-biking the south side of Tin Cup Pass and climbing over 3 high Colorado passes. There is always something that keeps me from having a record of the trip.

djb

the curse of the no photos.
I also have a friend who did more than half of the divide trail last summer using two rear ortliebs and one front ortlieb (yes, one). He had a great time and was able to ride along perfectly fine, with room for his stuff.
Sure, frame bags are going to limit your gear, so its going to be lighter, and faster, and easier to pick yoiur bike up over a fallen tree or over rocks, but all kinds of gear can work, it just might be a bit slower.

saddlesores

not bikepacking in the wilds of cambodia.

saddlesores

not bikepacking in northern laos.