Tourist in MSN

If that is what the law was meant to mean, that is the way that the law would have been written.

indyfabz

Not particularly. I wanted to make the point because not everyone is up on the different types of ebikes.

As for the rest of your post, I had nothing to add.

adablduya

and you are confident that every law is specifically written to convey EXACTLY and in detail what is covered ? you failed to recognize my point, and again, that is that I'M OF THE OPINION that the signs indicating NO MOTORIZED VEHICLES were posted, in many/most cases, years ago without the possibility of e-assisted bicycles being part of the intent. given their achievable speeds (and quiet), it seems reasonable to argue that they be included as such. but, that's not my point.

indyfabz

https://www.washingtonpost.com/local...=.72d9d2849134

350htrr

I would say todays signs Posting/saying no motorized vehicles, would need to specify E-Bikes, or else E-bikes would be legally allowed there, as there are laws specifically made to allow such E-Bikes anywhere a bicycle is allowed...

veganbikes

I see no issue with riding with someone on an e-bike. If they are throttling or on some hideous kit bike then I would say no in a heartbeat but a standard e-bike (class 1 or 3) is just fine in my book. Obviously if is important to discuss the limits and have a good relationship with the person so they aren't just keeping it in turbo mode all the time and barely working ever while staying far from you.

I rode an e-bike last year for our area's bike to work day for our shop and rode down to a bigger event with a bunch of people none on e-bikes and most of the time I was in the lowest assist mode or had it off and kept behind or next to them never ahead. I wasn't trying to race around them I was riding with group together.

I think people love to hate e-bikes because they see the worst of the worst, bikes not designed for a motor with some kit on it that was either hacked or came with ridiculous power and throttle that isn't sustainable and is hard to find parts for. Go and find an actual e-bike store that sells quality products with Bosch, Brose or Shimano motors and not throttled bikes. Go give one or more a test ride, and then make a better more informed decision. I was in the same boat on e-bikes because I saw the crap but after riding some quality stuff, I realize it is a lot of fun and can be useful for many people in many different situations and most of the time I am not going at crazy speeds and a regular cyclist could overtake me without a ton of effort. My average speed on a e-bike typically hovers around 15mph and my average speed on an analog bike is about 13mph or so but of course on the e-bike I am less tired and sweaty up hills and could go much longer even though I am on a much heavier bike.

I am not saying one has to love e-bikes or have the same opinion on them as mine is currently, you can still hate them after you ride one but I can almost guarantee you won't.

E-bikes are a lot like brussels sprouts, people have tried or seen atrocious versions of them (usually overcooked or poorly seasoned) so they dismiss the entire lot but there is actually delicious brussels sprouts out there. You just have to find someone who knows how to prepare them and you will be in for a treat.

jefnvk

But, as @indyfabz has been saying, you cannot ignore that there are many categories of ebikes. I can do faster than the 18MPH that they are often limited at, if the trails aren't appropriate for their speed, it isn't appropriate for pacelines and group rides or even solo speedists.

What a generic sign says and what the law says is often worlds apart. Not to mention, many signs (at least by me) also are qualified with "except for mobility devices used by qualified person" or something thereabouts, leading to yet more ambiguity.

Leebo

You would be incorrect. Most state ( USA) dot have rules and regs defining motorized vehicles, and e bikes as well as what bikes are. Off road definitions too for what ever land agencies are in charge. Does it have a motor? It's motorized. Check out the rules where you pedal.

Nightcap

I’m neither in shape nor a particularly good cyclist, but even now I can do twenty miles, no problem. By summer’s end, it’ll be a lot more. The Unindicted Co-Conspirator, however, cannot. She can do a few circles around the neighborhood, and then she’s done. That means we can’t ride together. So last week, we bought her an e-bike. Expecting it in a week or so. The assist will get her out of the house and onto the trail with me, and within a few months, I’m pretty sure she’ll be able to use her old unenhanced bike. Worth every penny. (Oh, and the throttle is good for getting rolling, since e-bikes are heavy.)

Would I take one on a long tour? Heck, no, but that’s only because I prefer to sleep in my own bed. “Roughing It” means Holiday Inn Express.

350htrr

Yes, it is. BUT, that is what the legal E-Bike is exempted from, it is legally "considered a bicycle", NOT a "motorized vehicle", it's also not considered a motorized bicycle, (legally), it's also not a moped... if, it meets the under a certain watts motor, and the speed restrictions levels for that state...

350htrr

Here is some info about E-Bike touring without the worry of plugging in somewhere, and... going 12,000Km, I would call that bicycle touring, as they ALL look like they are pedaling for "ALL they are worth"... Grin News - Sunny Trips for 2018

Cyclcist11023131

350htrr

Ha, Ha, what you are describing is a throttled E-Bike, NOT, a pedal assist E-Bike... (Which I too happen to consider a Fail), meaning throttles, and the reason they do that (if you want to know) is because they reach their speed "limit", and the motor cuts out, then, when they slow down, then motor cuts in again, and voilà, off you go again back to the cut off speed. With a pedal assist E-Bike you ride absolutely normally... No pedaling... and there is No going, (it is just the way it works) certainly no surging ahead without putting in the pedaling energy/effort required to do so...

indyfabz

Thanks for that explanation. I often see delivery guys surging like that as they fly through the street and was wondering why.

Leebo

You're in CAD? What ev. Off road in MA, its a motorized vehicles, what the states DOT rules are say something different . And the rules vary widely, everywhere.

Leebo

Can't ride together? A tandem works for me n the mrs. Bigger motor too.

Nightcap

Rob_E

I hope the OP knew they were going to bring out the ebike hate. If you aren't going into this full of similar feelings, try and filter out the vehement protesters who just want to say how much they hate the idea. You asked the question, so presumably you are open to the idea.

A couple of years ago I started talking about my desire to ride the GAP and C&O Canal trail. My aunt, only a casual bike rider, said that sounded like fun, and maybe she'd like to go. Well, I went solo on my self-supported trip through Ohio and PA, which included the GAP, and didn't offer to take my aunt because I didn't think she could keep up, nor did I think it had been her intention to camp. What I found was that the trail was very pleasant, easy riding, and with plenty of places to stay if you didn't want to camp.

So I planned a second trip for last fall. I talked my non-camping wife into it, and my aunt talked my uncle into it. We had a travel agency set us up with lodgings every 30-45 miles, and we headed out.

My wife does not bike much, but when she does, she sets a mean pace. My aunt surprised us by being the second fastest. Even relatively unloaded (we carried our luggage) with shorter mileages than I usually plan on, I'm still pokey and was generally third. And my uncle lagged behind, miserably. He wasn't comfortable with the long miles, nor with the weight of his luggage, nor with the non-coasting, constant, slight uphill grade of the trail. He finished with us, and I think he had fun off the bike, but he did not seem to be enjoying the ride.

Then they stopped by, with bikes, for a visit this spring, wanting us to take them out riding and hopefully visiting some local breweries. My uncle's bike had been converted to an e-bike. And we were all so much happier. Yes, he showed us up on the hills, and we jokingly complained about it as he passed us. And he enjoyed the ride more. And we enjoyed the ride more. The fact that he had a motor did nothing to take away the enjoyment of the rest of the group. I didn't experience the ire that others have alluded to in which his ability to climb a hill was somehow a slight against me. I was glad he found a way to join us. We're planning a similar, multi-day trip this fall, and he's bringing the e-bike this time. At least I hope so.

Of course there are limitations. The credit-card-style touring we'll be doing is perfectly suited to his e-bike riding. We don't have to accommodate him in any way, because, other than me, no one is really interested in long mileage days that may end at a place that has no electricity. But if you want to do a self-supported, camping trip with an e-bike in the group, that will be a limitation. The e-bike may be something you can pedal when the battery runs down, but if someone is already feeling like they need an assist on their bike, the will likely not make it far when they have to push on under their own steam on a bike loaded down with a depleted battery and a non-functioning motor. Better to know their battery range and take it into account. And better to know where you're going to end every night, and know that you can recharge. And, I suspect that the weight they carry will impact their range, so maybe you can load them down with more of their fair share, but maybe not.

And the legality, while not always straightforward, is not, I don't think, as contentious as it's being presented here. Figure out the state(s) you'll be traveling in and the ownership of the lands you'll be traveling through and camping on. State laws will likely define bicycle vs. e-bike vs. motorized vehicle and that will likely apply to any roads you travel or multi-use paths. But if you are traveling through special lands like national forests, you may find a different set of rules. In my state, there are specific definitions for electical assised bicycles and motor vehicles, and they are explicitely stated to be different catagories. So I didn't worry when we travelled down a "no motor vehicles" path. Not every state is so clear, though, so it's good to plan ahead.

So really the downside to touring with an e-bike rider is that there are downsides to riding an e-bike in terms of where and how far you can ride, and what makes a reasonably stopping point. You get none of the benefits of having a motor, but still get to share in the downsides.

And the only real benefit I see is the companionship you get from traveling with someone you otherwise wouldn't. Whether it's worth it to you depends on your feelings toward that person.

chrisx

When did bicyclists start talking against non gasoline powered transport. If you get the electric bike of the road, will they get back in their car? In California, the car people call you a wino for riding a bike. Like to see more people on gasoline free transport myself.

As far as touring, always be Self-sufficient. and do not worry about the speed of the others.

350htrr

Well said... and, that is about the only benefit... As for having to stop every night and plug in, that depends on the battery, or more precisely how deep ones pocket is for buying said battery. There are batteries out there that can go 100 + Miles per charge, without pedaling... and then there are portable solar panels that "can" charge even a Tesla....

travelinhobo

You do understand that you're the real cyclist and they're...lazy.

JohnJ80

There's also the case of where they run out of battery and have to get that get that heavy 45lb bike (not including cargo) up that same hill. E-bikes without battery are not exactly fun to pedal. Those who chose an e-bike because they are weaker cyclists are going to have a bigger problem getting that up the hill than will you. They are going to need help. Any guesses on who that is? Be prepared to ride that same hill more than once.

Rob_E

350htrr

It also depends on the type of E-Bike, as I have mentioned, over and over, My E-Bike probably weighs less than most peoples touring bikes, My E-Bike can be pedaled like a normal bike, probably with about the same effort as a portly touring bike even when the battery runs out... It IS a bicycle, for all intensive purposes. It does not go anywhere if I don't put in the effort to pedal it, What is so hard to understand about that, about the only benefit is going up hills, going into the wind, going faster, BUT, every time you actually use it, then you use up the battery. On a tour, one uses the assist as little as possible, thus, you actually must pedal it let say 70Km out of every 100Km you use it, how hard is that to understand...??? Yes there are E-Bikes out there that you can ride for 100Km without pedaling, but that is BIG $$$, an average E-bike is like mine, again I have to pedal IT 70kM ON MY OWN TO MAKE 100kM OF "ASSISTED" RIDING HAPPEN...


EDIT; That; could actually be compared to doing a tour with a fixie, and "if" that is the only type of bicycle you think is worthy, and someone wants to come along with you and do it with a 27 speed, the mechanical advantage is similar, the main difference is that the advantage is an E-motor, not gearing... In other words, the "effect" would be exactly the same... They would leave you in the dust, going up hills, going faster on level ground, going into the wind, even tho putting out less effort because of the gearing... JMO

alan s