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ATS Speed Drive- experiences?

Old 05-25-18, 05:22 PM
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ATS Speed Drive- experiences?

Anybody actually used an ATS Speed Drive? I'm looking at one for my Rohloff equipped bike because I'm sick of the crappy gear range. I'd be running it in 1:1 mostly, with the 1.65 ratio for long descents and tail wind situations where with my current set up running 36:19 I constantly spin out. I'd actually pushed the button on one, only to be told that ATS need to make the 148mm axle I need to get the correct chainline for the Rohloff with the 73mm bottom bracket on my Troll. I'm a big one for spinning in low gears to save my knees, and my partner is significantly less strong than me but still can't be persuaded to lighten her load of those necessities, so I need the low gearing so I don't drop her on hills and get growled at.
What are they like when in overdrive? More noisy than the Rohloff? I guess I'm not so worried about friction losses since it's a downhill/cruising/tailwind thing. I'm over just rolling down hill because the friction losses from the Rohloff mean my partner is always on my hammer, even if she doesn't pedal. And she now has 727% gear range courtesy of the 11-40T rear cassette and 20-30-40 cranks I put on her bike so it's even worse.
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Old 05-25-18, 07:46 PM
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I've never heard of ATS before now. This very similar product has been around for at least 6-7 years, apparently works but not inexpensive:

https://www.schlumpfdrive.com/index.php/home-en.html
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Old 05-25-18, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by seeker333
I've never heard of ATS before now. This very similar product has been around for at least 6-7 years, apparently works but not inexpensive:

schlumpf drive - Home - schlumpfdrive - ultraflat Planetary Gear for Bikes
Yeah, an ATS is a Schlumpf made under licence in Taiwan.... works out not too expensive, for my application as I need a longer axle and spacers it's $425 delivered with some tools and extra grease.
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Old 05-25-18, 09:17 PM
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I wish my Rohloff bike had a wider range, but quite frankly I have gotten used to it. Touring with a load on it, I use a 36T chainring, the stock 16T sprocket that came with it, that is a range of 16.5 to 86.5 gear inches. In my lowest gear that gives me a cadence of 72 at 3.5 mph on a 26 inch Schwalbe 2.25 width Marathon Extreme. Slower than 3.5 mph, I do not have adequate vertical and directional stability, thus that is my minimum speed. If the hill is so steep that I can't maintain 3.5 mph up the hill, I get off and walk.

Touring, I have occasionally spun out on a shallow downhill but it was not often enough for me to want an additional range of gearing on top of what the Rohloff offers. I have not spun out on flat terrain with that gearing. So, I just live with what I have.

When riding around home unladen I switch the chainring to a 44T and add a few chainlinks. That is perfect for the ranges of hills I ride on an unladen bike near home.

Good luck with your plans, I hope it gives you the gearing that you want.
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Old 05-26-18, 12:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
I wish my Rohloff bike had a wider range, but quite frankly I have gotten used to it. Touring with a load on it, I use a 36T chainring, the stock 16T sprocket that came with it, that is a range of 16.5 to 86.5 gear inches. In my lowest gear that gives me a cadence of 72 at 3.5 mph on a 26 inch Schwalbe 2.25 width Marathon Extreme. Slower than 3.5 mph, I do not have adequate vertical and directional stability, thus that is my minimum speed. If the hill is so steep that I can't maintain 3.5 mph up the hill, I get off and walk.

Touring, I have occasionally spun out on a shallow downhill but it was not often enough for me to want an additional range of gearing on top of what the Rohloff offers. I have not spun out on flat terrain with that gearing. So, I just live with what I have.

When riding around home unladen I switch the chainring to a 44T and add a few chainlinks. That is perfect for the ranges of hills I ride on an unladen bike near home.

Good luck with your plans, I hope it gives you the gearing that you want.
I'm used to, I just don't like it... I needed every bit of the 14" that gives me on a recent ride up some steep gravel tracks, was actually easier to ride than to push...
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Old 05-26-18, 05:21 AM
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Originally Posted by Trevtassie
... ... I needed every bit of the 14" that gives me on a recent ride up some steep gravel tracks, was actually easier to ride than to push...
Interesting. I found on steep gravel when in my lowest gear (16.5 gear inches) that the high torque sometimes caused me to spin out and come to an immediate halt. And on a hill that steep, I can't get started again. You must have some great tires if you can avoid spinning out on steep gravel uphills.

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Old 05-26-18, 05:57 AM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
Interesting. I found on steep gravel when in my lowest gear (16.5 gear inches) that the high torque sometimes caused me to spin out and come to an immediate halt. And on a hill that steep, I can't get started again. You must have some great tires if you can avoid spinning out on steep gravel uphills.
Surly Extraterrestrials, running at around 16psi. Enough volume you can run them that low fully loaded, though you need to take it easy down hill to avoid hitting rocks too hard. I rate them, they roll better than Marathon Mondials on the road too, when pumped up, even though they're huge.
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Old 05-26-18, 10:32 AM
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Pederson Metro geared crank https://www.pattersonbike.com/ is another 1.6x overdrive, with a cable shift and a BB resembling an external type..

I have been using a Swiss made Schlumpf mountain drive*, + a 3 speed hub ..
somewhat like Rohloff does between 7th & 8th,

1, 2 , 3 in low range is followed by shifting back to low in the hub, is 4th, in high range so a double shift..

you could use a double chainring 34t , 54t .. (34 x 1.6 = 54.4) so its close to the same..

* its internal planet gearbox is pretty quiet , when the crank arms are turning faster than the chain ring.
[overdrive the chain ring is turning faster than the crank arms]




...

Last edited by fietsbob; 05-26-18 at 10:38 AM.
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Old 05-26-18, 06:26 PM
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The Paterson is a no go because it only suits 68mm BBs and has a 46mm chainline. Looks to be a fair bit heavier than the ATS/Schlumpf too. Incidentally the ATS also has an option for cable operation, I don't want to have yet another cable up to the bars so I'm going for the heel button option. It's good to know the overdrive doesn't make much noise, it can't be any worse than a Rohloff I reckon.
I was running a double chainring with a tensioner for a while, but having to manually switch the chain sucked. I might run a front and rear derailleur(for tension) for this trip with two chainrings, since ATS haven't got stock of the long axle I need to get 54mm chainline. There won't be much off road action so it'll be OK.
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Old 05-26-18, 08:04 PM
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Originally Posted by Trevtassie
.. ATS haven't got stock of the long axle I need to get 54mm chainline. ....
Just a side note on chainline, the old threaded sprockets had one chainline. The splined carrier with splined sprocket another chainline. Then they came out with a slim splined carrier that had a chainline not much different that the old threaded sprocket. So, my point is that your Rohloff chainline might change later, maybe a little or maybe more than a little. I bought a spare threaded sprocket to delay the point when my chainline will change.
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Old 05-26-18, 10:02 PM
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want risk free buying by having someone else buy one and revue it for you,

this may just not have anyone ,doing that for you

how about offering detailed technical links ?

perhaps somone can read and interpret those for you?
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Old 05-27-18, 05:58 AM
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If you were to add a second, larger chainring to your crank for more downhill speed, would you still spend most of your time on the smaller ring anyway? If the answer to that question is ďyesĒ then I would say just add the ring and front derailer. That chainline is still much straighter than the line on a geared bike in almost every gear. Not only that, but you wonít even be putting a ton of miles on it, and when you do, itís at a time when the load isnít as stressful on the drive-train anyway. Itís just to give you a little boost down a slope. Itís not worth adding the weight and constant drag(or spending the money) of anything more complicated.
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Old 05-27-18, 03:36 PM
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How about a bike friday tandem? the same gearing in a 20" wheel is lower because of the wheel size..
a 20" 36 spoke Roff wheel will be super.. lots of people many Germans, used the speed hubs riding
tandems well off the grid..

then your friend cannot be left behind,


my 26" R'off blke has a M730 XT , with a 127.5 long spindle and the chainguard disc sits on the outside position
this original crank profile, similar so BB stayed..

WB Bicycle Gallery: Robert Clark's Koga Miyata WTR

39-130 to a 110-38.. & 16t








..

Last edited by fietsbob; 05-27-18 at 03:39 PM.
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Old 05-27-18, 04:11 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
Just a side note on chainline, the old threaded sprockets had one chainline. The splined carrier with splined sprocket another chainline. Then they came out with a slim splined carrier that had a chainline not much different that the old threaded sprocket. So, my point is that your Rohloff chainline might change later, maybe a little or maybe more than a little. I bought a spare threaded sprocket to delay the point when my chainline will change.
Dang, I'm glad you pointed that out, I forgot about the extra width of the splined carrier. It makes it even more important that I got the longer bottom bracket!
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Old 05-27-18, 06:00 PM
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Originally Posted by Trevtassie
Dang, I'm glad you pointed that out, I forgot about the extra width of the splined carrier. It makes it even more important that I got the longer bottom bracket!
Yeah, the chainline is an issue for me. Mine is off about 5mm and that was intentional. I wanted the Q factor (width of pedals) to be about the same on my Rohloff bike as derailleur bikes, thus my bottom bracket spindle is about 10mm shorter than it should be. The splined carrier would make chainline worse, thus I bought a spare threaded sprocket to delay that.
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Old 05-28-18, 09:47 AM
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yea the threaded 13t cog chain line is the new snap ring replaceable cog chain line..

hoping someone makes a screw on adapter , that used the common, cheap, Sturmey Archer 3 spline cog..

since the 13 spline ones will remain a higher cost from a sole source...
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Old 06-01-18, 09:52 AM
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I hope you report back on this. It's been on my wish list for my Troll as well, but I've been doing pretty well with my 8-speed hub, and haven't been left wanting often enough to justify the price. Still, I have some things I'd like to try, like a 4-speed bike with no shift cables using an ATS and a kick back hub. Might be perfect for non-touring trips since my bike has couplers and gets broken down for travel, and every cable has to be dealt with when I break it down and rebuild it.
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Old 06-01-18, 03:24 PM
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Originally Posted by Trevtassie
Surly Extraterrestrials, running at around 16psi. Enough volume you can run them that low fully loaded, though you need to take it easy down hill to avoid hitting rocks too hard. I rate them, they roll better than Marathon Mondials on the road too, when pumped up, even though they're huge.
I cant recall if Ive mentioned this before, but I have a pair of ETs kicking around and have played on them a bit. Pretty neat tires and when they were on my wifes troll for a bit, we would ride on pavement and I was frankly surprised how well they rolled compared to either the 1.5 or 2in tires I had on my bike at the time. My friend who did a good part of the divide last year used them and was very happy with them overall for the wide variety of surfaces he encountered.

Im still looking forward one day to doing up my troll with them and the jones bars and doing more offroad type stuff, the opportunity just hasnt come up for now.
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Old 06-12-18, 04:52 PM
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So there was a 60 day wait from the factory for the long axle version of the ATS speed drive, so it'd miss my next tour. I've run with a derailleur front and rear and another chain ring and a friction shifter for the front. I think I will push the button on the ATS after the tour though. It offends me that I need a Rohloff and a derailleur to get the gearing I want. The whole point of the Rohloff is supposed to clean up the bike so there's nothing to be knocked off.
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Old 06-12-18, 10:00 PM
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I don't have your (unstated) needs, what ever those are.
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Old 06-13-18, 08:15 AM
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Originally Posted by Trevtassie
So there was a 60 day wait from the factory for the long axle version of the ATS speed drive, so it'd miss my next tour. I've run with a derailleur front and rear and another chain ring and a friction shifter for the front. I think I will push the button on the ATS after the tour though. It offends me that I need a Rohloff and a derailleur to get the gearing I want. The whole point of the Rohloff is supposed to clean up the bike so there's nothing to be knocked off.
It shouldn't offend you that you want more gearing out of your bike. You just need to realize that you want more gearing out of your bike. I get the impression that running front gearing with a Rohloff is pretty rare, because most people are happy with the range. I'm interested in the ATS drive because I run an 8-speed hub. I suspect I wouldn't be interested if I ran a 14 speed. I used to run a Nuvinci with two chainrings up front. Eventually I removed the front derailer because the Nuvinci had all the range I needed most of the time. If I was carrying a touring load, I'd manually bump the chain into the lower gear and put it back on the big ring when the touring was done. You seem to have needs above and beyond the average touring cyclist. It's good that there are options out there for you, but it's not the fault of the industry that a hub most people are satisfied with doesn't meet your needs.
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Old 06-13-18, 09:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Rob_E
It shouldn't offend you that you want more gearing out of your bike. You just need to realize that you want more gearing out of your bike. I get the impression that running front gearing with a Rohloff is pretty rare, because most people are happy with the range. I'm interested in the ATS drive because I run an 8-speed hub. I suspect I wouldn't be interested if I ran a 14 speed. I used to run a Nuvinci with two chainrings up front. Eventually I removed the front derailer because the Nuvinci had all the range I needed most of the time. If I was carrying a touring load, I'd manually bump the chain into the lower gear and put it back on the big ring when the touring was done. You seem to have needs above and beyond the average touring cyclist. It's good that there are options out there for you, but it's not the fault of the industry that a hub most people are satisfied with doesn't meet your needs.
I think he just wants a wider gear set. Rohloff high gear is 526 percent higher than the lowest gear. As I mentioned above in post number 4, there have been a few times I wished it had a wider range too, but the rarity of wanting those higher gears is not worth the effort for me to make any hardware changes on my Rohloff bike.

I also tour on two derailleur touring bikes. They used to have a high gear that was 630 percent higher than the lowest gear, but I have since changed the gearing on those bikes, the high gear is now 558 percent higher than the lowest gear.

The 18 speed Pinion drive has a high gear that is 636 percent of the low gear, someone that really wants that much range would probably be better off picking that if they were buying a new bike. But that is a relatively new option with few choices for bike frames.

The Rohloff was originally designed to be used on mountain bikes. Thus the designer was not thinking of touring bike gearing, but was thinking mountain bike gearing. There have been very few changes to the hub since the 90s when they first started selling them, other than to modify it for more recent changes like disc brakes, different axles, etc.
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Old 06-13-18, 10:08 AM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
I think he just wants a wider gear set. Rohloff high gear is 526 percent higher than the lowest gear. As I mentioned above in post number 4, there have been a few times I wished it had a wider range too, but the rarity of wanting those higher gears is not worth the effort for me to make any hardware changes on my Rohloff bike.
I get that. I feel the same way. I run an Alfine 8, and I've considered the ATS drive to get a little more range without adding derailers and/or tensioners. But I'm also well-aware that if I wanted full control of the range of gears, an external gear cluster and multiple chainrings remains my best option. Choosing a gear hub was a compromise that I was willing to make. So I just don't understand being offended. I understand wanting more gears than what you have, but the Rohloff range is not a secret.
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Old 06-13-18, 05:01 PM
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I actually fell into Rohloff ownership, sort of. I got a set of wheels with one with a bunch of other new gear, cheap. And I'm a determined bugger. I like to make things work. The biggest issue with the Rohloff is it doesn't freewheel very well so to keep up with my partner I need to pedal down hills. I've done the bearing re-alignment thing with a mallet and everything else I can to make it roll, but it still has plenty of drag when freewheeling.
Next tour will be Hokkaido, Japan. If I get the low gears I need to get up 10-15% slopes on some of the out of the way mountain passes, then I'll be boned on the long down hills without a decent high gear.. It's a product of the place being wildly volcanic. There are a lot of calderas. Think Mt Fuji after it's gone boom. So you have that nicely shaped slope leading up to a huge steep sided hole. The nice stuff is in the bottom of the hole, like hot springs and beautiful lakes. It's fine riding into the hole, nice gradual climb up, that may even take a day, then a banging descent that's over in a flash. Riding out is another matter. Some switch backed nasty that averages 7% for 7 miles with the odd 15% on corners. Then a 25 mile descent that you can, if you have the gearing, sit on 20 mph, like riding an electric bike. Without the extra front gearing that ain't gonna happen.
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Old 06-13-18, 05:45 PM
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Mine Rohloff coasts just fine down hills. If yours has some drag, perhaps the drag is lessened in gear 14?

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