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Ripped off Presta Tip with Hand Pump - bad technique/pump/tire?

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Ripped off Presta Tip with Hand Pump - bad technique/pump/tire?

Old 06-03-18, 02:18 PM
  #1  
raria
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Ripped off Presta Tip with Hand Pump - bad technique/pump/tire?

Hi

Wasn't on a tour, but amazingly I ripped off the tip (i.e. the bolt/nut) completely off with my hand pump. Nearly screwed up my pump and was wondering if this has happened to anyone else and its due to:

a) A cheap tube
b) A poor pump
c) My poor technique

c) Needs some discussion. How do people actually pump a tire with a small handpump without bending the presta tube pin.
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Old 06-03-18, 02:44 PM
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Frame pump then give it sharp karate chop to the upper barrel of the pump to remove it.
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Old 06-03-18, 03:19 PM
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Instead of trying to yank it off; put your thumb between the rim and pump near the stem and, while steadying the pump with the other hand, slowly pry it off the stem. That makes the pump come off straight instead of sideways like a bottle top opener. Or, grip the pump like using a cork screw to open a bottle of wine and pull off. In either case, straight off instead of levering the pump.

Without seeing the tube or pump but knowing how these things happen I vote C: poor technique.

Last edited by Happy Feet; 06-03-18 at 03:24 PM.
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Old 06-03-18, 03:31 PM
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When pumping, make sure you hold the head of the pump stable, and if possible also the rim to minimize stress on the valve when pumping.

In some cases, the tube will still hold air without that screw top, and can continue to be used, at least until it goes flat.
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Old 06-03-18, 05:13 PM
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Leave off the jam nut. This allows the stem to flex a little as the pump is used.

The jam nut really isn't needed in most cases and in some cases when over tightened can pull the tube through the valve hole in the rim and cause a flat.


-Tim-
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Old 06-03-18, 06:29 PM
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Some time back I wrote up a comparison between the Road Morph G and the Lezyne Micro Floor Drive pump. I think these are the two most popular pumps for touring. It is unlikely that you would have that problem with one of those pumps.
Comparing Topeak Road Morph G and Lezyne Micro Floor Drive Pumps.

The website programmers have changed software a few times since I posted that, thus the photos are messed up a bit.

To answer your question, I have not had the problem you had but decades ago I had a tube separate from the valve stem while I was pumping up a tire.
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Old 06-03-18, 07:29 PM
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-c
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Old 06-03-18, 08:54 PM
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Bad Technique. P/V?

BITD, with the old frame-fit pumps stem was at 12:00, held up by the pump,
in the air.

then you hit the pump straight down, knocking it off so removal, force was vertical..








...

Last edited by fietsbob; 06-04-18 at 08:27 AM.
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Old 06-04-18, 06:57 AM
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I squirt a little blast of silicone spray into my pump heads and my shop air chucks. I find that this allows for a smoother on and off. I also do the same for my tire pressure gauges.
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Old 06-04-18, 07:08 AM
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I'm confused about when you actually did this. Was it while pumping, or while removing the pump?

If it was while pumping, get a pump with a tube. As Tourist mentioned, I really like my Topeak Road Morph (and associated variants). The only bikes that I have a pump without a tube for are the road bike that just doesn;t get ridden that much, and the fat bike because one doesn't really fit.

Originally Posted by NoControl View Post
I squirt a little blast of silicone spray into my pump heads and my shop air chucks. I find that this allows for a smoother on and off. I also do the same for my tire pressure gauges.
Nifty trick, I need to give this a go.
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Old 06-04-18, 07:12 AM
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Originally Posted by jefnvk View Post
Nifty trick, I need to give this a go.
Thanks, Jeff. In an effort to keep an uncluttered shop, I only use the spray silicone dielectric grease. Its good for electrical connections as well as a minor lube job. One word of advice: Keep it away from anything that you may paint in the future. Paint of any kind does not play well with silicone.
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Old 06-04-18, 09:33 AM
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Originally Posted by raria View Post
Hi

Wasn't on a tour, but amazingly I ripped off the tip (i.e. the bolt/nut) completely off with my hand pump. Nearly screwed up my pump and was wondering if this has happened to anyone else and its due to:

a) A cheap tube
b) A poor pump
c) My poor technique

c) Needs some discussion. How do people actually pump a tire with a small handpump without bending the presta tube pin.
I'd say it's a combination of b) and c) with the caveat that b) kind of leads to c). Many frame-fit pumps and mini-pumps suffer from this kind of problem because, frankly, they are a very poor design. You have to stabilize the wheel and pump with one hand while pumping with the other. This often...in my experience...lead to pulling the pump back and forth while putting stress on the valve stem (which is also moving back and forth). The stem tears off after a while. You can improve your technique by bracing the wheel against something (your knee works) while you pump but that only works marginally well.

The introduction of the Topeak Morph pumps made frame fit and mini-pumps obsolete and demonstrated how useless they are. All that energy that used to go into ripping the valve stem off is now put into the ground which makes damage to the stems less problematic and makes pumping up a tire with a pump you can carry on your bike much easier. Get one and don't look back.
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Old 06-04-18, 02:36 PM
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That pretty much sums up my take on the newer pumps like the morph series.
after having used the other type for decades, a road morph G made for so much easier and safer pumping.
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Old 06-04-18, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
The introduction of the Topeak Morph pumps made frame fit and mini-pumps obsolete and demonstrated how useless they are. All that energy that used to go into ripping the valve stem off is now put into the ground which makes damage to the stems less problematic and makes pumping up a tire with a pump you can carry on your bike much easier. Get one and don't look back.
Au contraire, mon frère! I can never understand why folks are so in love with all these mini-pumps (and I include the Morph and Lezyne's in that category). I still use an old fashioned Silca frame-fit with Campagnolo metal head. It weighs 5.5 oz, in comparison to the heavier Topeak Morph G ( 7.57 oz), Lezyne HP (6.61 oz ), or Lezyne HV (7.44 oz). Not only that, but it will pump up a tire to very high pressure much faster than any of those pumps. I have on many occasions stepped in to pump up the tire of a hapless cyclist fumbling unsuccessfully with their mini-pump or CO2 cartridges. If used correctly (i.e. valve stem at 12 o'clock, thumb wrapped over tire and index finger wrapped around the back of the head there's no way you will risk damaging the valve. A simple downward tap releases it. For an even more durable (but heavier) pump with an one-way valve look at the Zefal HPX. Both of these pumps are also very effective at fending off belligerent canines. Try that with your mini-pump!
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Old 06-04-18, 08:55 PM
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Been there done that.

Every pump I use now has a hose.

With mini pumps, it can be quite fatiguing to get up to full pressure, then lose focus and make the mistake of damaging the valve stem.
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Old 06-04-18, 10:15 PM
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Thanks

Do they sell generic hoses that connect to any pump?

Originally Posted by SHBR View Post
Been there done that.

Every pump I use now has a hose.

With mini pumps, it can be quite fatiguing to get up to full pressure, then lose focus and make the mistake of damaging the valve stem.
Hanks
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Old 06-04-18, 11:15 PM
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Originally Posted by raria View Post
Do they sell generic hoses that connect to any pump?
Probably, it might need a schraeder to presta adaptor, more trouble than its worth, for a mini-pump.

This is the last pump (14USD) I bought, works well enough for the occasional roadside flat tire repair.
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Old 06-05-18, 08:38 AM
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Originally Posted by davester View Post
Au contraire, mon frère! I can never understand why folks are so in love with all these mini-pumps (and I include the Morph and Lezyne's in that category). I still use an old fashioned Silca frame-fit with Campagnolo metal head. It weighs 5.5 oz, in comparison to the heavier Topeak Morph G ( 7.57 oz), Lezyne HP (6.61 oz ), or Lezyne HV (7.44 oz).
The weight depends on the model. Comparing apples to apples, the Topeak Mini Morph weighs 5.4oz. Like your Silca, it doesn't have the gauge. It's also capable of pumping to 160psi...not that I'd want to do that with any pump. Frankly, I like having a gauge on the pump so I'll carry a little bit more weight. The Topeak MiniMorph G has that gauge for a 0.8oz penalty. Not much to worry about.

I would agree that most mini-pumps are as useless, in my opinion, as frame fit pumps. But the Topeak Morph and Lezyne are very different because they mimic a floor pump.

Originally Posted by davester View Post
Not only that, but it will pump up a tire to very high pressure much faster than any of those pumps. I have on many occasions stepped in to pump up the tire of a hapless cyclist fumbling unsuccessfully with their mini-pump or CO2 cartridges. If used correctly (i.e. valve stem at 12 o'clock, thumb wrapped over tire and index finger wrapped around the back of the head there's no way you will risk damaging the valve.
I've never had a problem pumping up a tire to a useful pressure with a Morph. I wouldn't carry a regular mini-pump nor would I carry CO2. I agree that you struggle with one and with the latter, you'd better carry a pump as well. No need to be redundant.

I know how to use a frame pump "correctly". I just never found it to be all that efficient. Tearing valve stem off was a very common occurrence because while you may be able to pump the tire up to 160 psi, anything over about 80 was a struggle. I disagree that the way you describe holding the valve stem is going to negate valve damage. That last bit of pressure will usually cause the rider to move both the pump and the wheel during pumping.

Originally Posted by davester View Post
A simple downward tap releases it. For an even more durable (but heavier) pump with an one-way valve look at the Zefal HPX. Both of these pumps are also very effective at fending off belligerent canines. Try that with your mini-pump!
Two problems with the Zefal HPX. One the frame fit has to be very, very tight or the pump flies off on bumps. It usually lands right under the rear wheel as a result and a dented pump is even more useless than normal. Second, the nylon bits on the head make holding the pump around the stem even more uncomfortable than other frame fit pumps which makes pulling the stem off even more likely.

Finally, I've never used a pump or any other object than maybe a rock to fend off dogs. Never had the need to.
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Old 06-05-18, 08:44 AM
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Originally Posted by raria View Post
Do they sell generic hoses that connect to any pump?


Hanks
Maybe but you'd have to carry the pump and hose around. You also can't push that kind of arrangement into the ground as well as with the Topeak Morphs and Lezyne MicroFloor pumps. Yes, they cost a little more but they last for long enough to make it worth it.

Personally, I prefer the Topeak to the Lezyne. It's a bit more streamline and the pump handle on the Morphs is more comfortable.
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Old 06-05-18, 09:48 AM
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My Mini Morph is small and light weight. I really like the design, with one end of the pump on the ground, like a floor pump. It's shorter barrel means I need more strokes to fill a tire. That's a reasonable tradeoff for me. (But I mostly use CO2 now, the pump comes along on all-day solo rides.)

I counted at least 200 strokes to get my 25mm tires up to about 70-80 psi, more than enough to finish the ride. I was pushing down with all my upper body weight for the last 50 strokes. No pressure gauge is needed, just pump until it's getting difficult. That's a lot of strokes -- pumps with longer barrels are way faster.

The Mini Morph needed about the same number of strokes on a 38 mm tire to get it to reasonable pressure, maybe 30 psi.
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Old 06-05-18, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by davester View Post
Au contraire, mon frère! I can never understand why folks are so in love with all these mini-pumps (and I include the Morph and Lezyne's in that category). I still use an old fashioned Silca frame-fit with Campagnolo metal head. It weighs 5.5 oz, in comparison to the heavier Topeak Morph G ( 7.57 oz), Lezyne HP (6.61 oz ), or Lezyne HV (7.44 oz). Not only that, but it will pump up a tire to very high pressure much faster than any of those pumps. I have on many occasions stepped in to pump up the tire of a hapless cyclist fumbling unsuccessfully with their mini-pump or CO2 cartridges. If used correctly (i.e. valve stem at 12 o'clock, thumb wrapped over tire and index finger wrapped around the back of the head there's no way you will risk damaging the valve. A simple downward tap releases it. For an even more durable (but heavier) pump with an one-way valve look at the Zefal HPX. Both of these pumps are also very effective at fending off belligerent canines. Try that with your mini-pump!
I never could get over about 80 psi with my old Silca pump with the Campy head on it. For touring (this is the touring board) generally 80 psi is certainly adequate. But I was using that pump on tubular tires that should have had over 100 psi in the rear. I still have that pump in storage somewhere but have not used it in decades.

I carry a Zefal HPX on a couple bikes, but only because I already owned those pumps and I have more bikes than I have mini floor style pumps. I would not be buying a new Zefal HPX now when the other pumps are in my opinion so much better.

But if you have the arms of a wrestler, the old Silca pump probably works great.
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Old 06-05-18, 12:57 PM
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I got nothing to add to which has already been very well said, except +100 on the Road Morph. The little hose makes all the difference.
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Old 06-05-18, 01:03 PM
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Originally Posted by SHBR View Post
Been there done that.

Every pump I use now has a hose.

With mini pumps, it can be quite fatiguing to get up to full pressure, then lose focus and make the mistake of damaging the valve stem.
+1. Lezyne microdrive. Screw on chuck at the end of a hose. Idiot proof.
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Old 06-05-18, 02:31 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
I never could get over about 80 psi with my old Silca pump with the Campy head on it.
Then there was something seriously wrong with the pump (pump leather in need of oiling or replacement most likely). I agree that you need to know the technique for using a Silca, but it's not difficult to get to 100 psi (though now that I've gone to wider tires I don't need to do that any more).

I'm curious as to why you think the Morph is superior to a Silca or Zefal. It's definitely not faster.
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Old 06-05-18, 03:47 PM
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I suppose it's because it's rather like a short floor pump, so you push down, against the ground..
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