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Kona Sutra P2 (Green)

Old 06-23-18, 08:28 PM
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Kona Sutra P2 (Green)

This afternoon I visited a couple of thrift stores and pawnshops looking for reasonably priced bike to use for parts to my commuter bike build. In one of the pawn shops I saw a Kona Sutra (Green in medium size) that looked like it is steel. The store clerk said the price for the bike is $700 comes with rim brakes, SRAM Rival 1 STI, SRAM R/D (do not remember if it was also Rival 1 or something else). Initially I was not intending to buy the bike at that price range. When I got home, the bike seems like it is a 2018 as shown at Kona's website (sorry cannot post URL yet). The bike is in excellent/great condition. However, I am not sure I want to pay $700 for a bike from a pawnshop. Perhaps folks here could advise me on what would be a fair price given that there is room for price negotiation. I plan to go back tomorrow and see if the store will offer a better deal - my wife would certainly enjoy using it.

Thanks,
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Old 06-23-18, 08:55 PM
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Remember that part of that new bike price tag includes the warranty and often free tune ups from the bike shop where you purchase it, plus you have some recourse if something more minor goes wrong.

Also make sure it isn't stolen goods.

KONA BIKES | ROAD | SUTRA | Sutra

Also, the components listed on that page are mostly Shimano, which makes me wonder if some stuff got switched out (or it isn't 2018)? Also, all three Sutra models on that page are disc brakes.

Last edited by Cyclist0108; 06-23-18 at 08:59 PM.
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Old 06-23-18, 11:45 PM
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Original owners certificate

If the shop doesn't have the invoice that could spell trouble.

Originally Posted by wgscott
Remember that part of that new bike price tag includes the warranty and often free tune ups from the bike shop where you purchase it, plus you have some recourse if something more minor goes wrong.

Also make sure it isn't stolen goods.

KONA BIKES | ROAD | SUTRA | Sutra

Also, the components listed on that page are mostly Shimano, which makes me wonder if some stuff got switched out (or it isn't 2018)? Also, all three Sutra models on that page are disc brakes.
​​​​​
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Old 06-24-18, 12:01 PM
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Originally Posted by Tautatis
...store clerk said the price for the bike is $700 comes with rim brakes, SRAM Rival 1 STI, SRAM R/D (do not remember if it was also Rival 1 or something else...
The Kona Sutra frameset has been constructed of steel for it's entire history.

A Kona Sutra with rim brakes dates to 2009 or earlier, since Kona deleted frame cantilever brake bosses with the 2010 disc-braked model. Also, Sutra was equipped with Shimano components back then, not Sram. Apparently this bike is a >9-year-old Sutra with custom parts (which is good or bad depending on your preferences). I recall a few reports of these older Sutras losing a brake boss, which is indicative of potential manufacturing issues which are impossible to discern via casual inspection. For this reason and others, I frequently suggest Surly LHT/DT for a steel touring bike. LHT/DT framesets are sold by most LBS for ~$500 and can be built to desired specs using new or recycled parts off an old MTB.

Seven hundred dollars for this Sutra is probably too high, as bike blue book estimates are about half this amount.

It's hard to determine ownership history of bikes, and pawn shops are known for selling stolen merch. I have owned several nice bikes over the years (Schwiin, Cannondale, Giant, Trek, Bianchi, Litespeed, TST, Surly), most purchased from LBS, and none of them came with an "owners certificate". Usually the best you can hope for is tracing the bike's serial number (often stamped under bottom bracket) if registered with an anti-bike-theft organization, which is unlikely.
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Old 06-24-18, 12:16 PM
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At $700 that bike will sit for a long time in a pawn shop. If you are interested, let it sit for a few months, then go make an offer.

Last edited by Paul Barnard; 07-02-18 at 07:31 PM.
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Old 06-24-18, 04:58 PM
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Originally Posted by seeker333
The Kona Sutra frameset has been constructed of steel for it's entire history.

A Kona Sutra with rim brakes dates to 2009 or earlier, since Kona deleted frame cantilever brake bosses with the 2010 disc-braked model. Also, Sutra was equipped with Shimano components back then, not Sram. Apparently this bike is a >9-year-old Sutra with custom parts (which is good or bad depending on your preferences). I recall a few reports of these older Sutras losing a brake boss, which is indicative of potential manufacturing issues which are impossible to discern via casual inspection. For this reason and others, I frequently suggest Surly LHT/DT for a steel touring bike. LHT/DT framesets are sold by most LBS for ~$500 and can be built to desired specs using new or recycled parts off an old MTB.

Seven hundred dollars for this Sutra is probably too high, as bike blue book estimates are about half this amount.

It's hard to determine ownership history of bikes, and pawn shops are known for selling stolen merch. I have owned several nice bikes over the years (Schwiin, Cannondale, Giant, Trek, Bianchi, Litespeed, TST, Surly), most purchased from LBS, and none of them came with an "owners certificate". Usually the best you can hope for is tracing the bike's serial number (often stamped under bottom bracket) if registered with an anti-bike-theft organization, which is unlikely.
My apologies. The bike comes with disc brakes. I did stop by the pawn shop this afternoon, unfortunately, it was closed. Will keep watching the bike in the next couple of weeks.

Thanks all. I am glad I was wise not to pull the CC thinking I got a score!
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Old 06-24-18, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by raria
If the shop doesn't have the invoice that could spell trouble.
​​​​​
?

it isnt expected that pawn shops have the original imvoice/sales rcpt around me. Or where i grew up in the Chicago burbs. Or down in Mississippi.

where is it required/expected?
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Old 06-24-18, 07:22 PM
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Originally Posted by seeker333
snip . . .

Seven hundred dollars for this Sutra is probably too high, as bike blue book estimates are about half this amount.

It's hard to determine ownership history of bikes, and pawn shops are known for selling stolen merch. I have owned several nice bikes over the years (Schwiin, Cannondale, Giant, Trek, Bianchi, Litespeed, TST, Surly), most purchased from LBS, and none of them came with an "owners certificate". Usually the best you can hope for is tracing the bike's serial number (often stamped under bottom bracket) if registered with an anti-bike-theft organization, which is unlikely.
Originally Posted by Paul Barnard
At $700 that bike will site for a long time in a pawn shop. If you are interested, let it sit for a few months, then go make an offer.
Blue book values are nonsense but they can be used to help knock down a price. Agreed that waiting is sometimes the best policy. The OP can make an offer based on the bluebook and if the pawnshop doesn't bite, let it sit. I'd be worried as well that the bike might be hot.
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Old 06-24-18, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by Tautatis
...bike seems like it is a 2018 as shown at Kona's website...bike is in excellent/great condition...bike comes with disc brakes...
Sooooo it's a 2018 Sutra LTD, MSRP $2100: https://www.konaworld.com/sutra_ltd.cfm

For $700 that's a pretty good deal, probably less than half the LBS's cost. Of course it must fit your wife well, otherwise not such a great deal. IMO a slightly used $2100 2018 bike for $700 at the pawn shop screams stolen! I wouldn't buy a bike if I thought it was stolen.

Last edited by seeker333; 06-25-18 at 02:30 AM.
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Old 06-25-18, 12:35 AM
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If they do have the original

It isn't expected, but if they do have it then you can be assured the bike was sold legitimately (unless the thief stole the invoice as well).

Otherwise its a crap shoot if your buying a stolen bike. When I lived in CA, people would monitor CraigsList for stolen bikes so most bad guys resorted to selling them to pawnshops.

I wonder what happens if you purchase a stolen bike from a pawn shop and the legitimate owner shows up with the cops to reclaim the bike? Does the pawnshop have to refund you? If so, then perhaps its not such a risky transaction.

Originally Posted by mstateglfr
?

it isnt expected that pawn shops have the original imvoice/sales rcpt around me. Or where i grew up in the Chicago burbs. Or down in Mississippi.

where is it required/expected?
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Old 06-27-18, 08:21 PM
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No stolen bike is a good deal. I would possibly put an alert out for it locally in case someone actually owns that bike. If not stolen and they can verify that and you have put some feelers out then $700 for a 2018 bike that retails for a lot more isn't bad. Though I suspect you generally won't find brand new bikes in a pawn shop like that unless they were hot to the touch.

Me personally I would rather develop a good relationship with my local shop and get all the warranties and such from them rather than being SOL when something happens.
"Dear Kona, I bought your bike from pawn shop so I get warranty right? Love, The OP"

"Thank you OP for your interest in Kona Bicycles but we cannot give you any warranties as you are not the original owner and it was not purchased from a shop. Have a Kona day, Duane Dwayne, Kona Bicycles Customer Care"
This transcript depicts real life fake events, the names have been changed to protect the innocent.
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Old 06-29-18, 07:54 PM
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Thank you all. Tomorrow morning I will go with a lot more information to ascertain the status of the bike at the Pawn Shop. It is great that people here have really great opinion to help this a bit more about these things. Will keep you posted.

Again thanks all for your great advice.
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Old 06-29-18, 09:03 PM
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To be extra cautious, you could grab the serial number off the frame and cross check it against Bike Index (and though less people use it) 529 Garage. Sometimes metropolitan areas also have stolen bike twitter accounts which if your area does you could check to see if anyone has reported a Sutra.
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Old 07-02-18, 07:29 PM
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Thanks again to all who pointed insightful advised about buying the bike. I visited the Pawn Shop on Saturday again and checked the bike. It is in an excellent condition to be sold at the pawn shop and not the LBS. In fact, I checked the label of where it was bought (across the Potomac river in Falls Church, VA) and that hinted on a great probability that it is likely that it may have been stolen. Checked the numbers and it was not listed on Bike Index. I asked a lot of questions and the owner did not seem that interested to answer my questions - he was short and responded with the same answer - "if you want to buy it, but it". I sensed that it may have a bit of a checkered past and decided against buying it - concerned getting myself in trouble and messing my security clearance.

Thank you all!
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Old 07-03-18, 09:11 PM
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It's a pawn shop- why would the owner have some great detailed story about the bike's history?

why does a shop sticker from 10mi away hint at it being stolen?
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Old 07-04-18, 09:39 AM
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Originally Posted by Tautatis
Thanks again...
Do a good deed - contact the Falls Church LBS re. your suspicion of stolen property. They may be able to contact bike owner, since there was probably an owner registration involved, plus it's likely they sold very few $2100 2018 Kona bikes. Perhaps the original owner did sell the bike, so that it isn't stolen. Also, the bike could have been stolen from the LBS.
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Old 07-04-18, 10:37 AM
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Pawn shops should have done the CYA with the Police,
Or, they could lose their Pawn licence as a business..
by knowingly, or foolishly, receiving stolen property..
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Old 07-04-18, 01:06 PM
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Originally Posted by fietsbob
Pawn shops should have done the CYA with the Police,
Or, they could lose their Pawn licence as a business..
by knowingly, or foolishly, receiving stolen property..
Yeah, most pawn shops work fairly closely with local police. The police often check there first when they get a report of a stolen item. They often contact the pawn shot to look out for certain items. This thread is full of a lot of misplaced paranoia. The pawn shop owner generally doesn't know a lot about bikes, though some do, and the owner is not going to offer a lot for a bicycle. They in turn want to sell it, and generally do not have people coming in on a regular basis looking for high end bikes, or bikes at all, so he simply wants to set a price attractive enough to sell the bike, and at a price high enough to recoup his costs and make a profit.

The best advice was from the pawn shop owner, "If you want to buy it, buy it." Now, that is not to say you shouldn't do due diligence if you are concerned, but having done that, buy the bike if you want it.
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Old 07-04-18, 02:59 PM
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Originally Posted by phughes
Yeah, most pawn shop...
Police often check pawn shops first for stolen items, because unlike most merchants pawn shops sell stolen property, but my (and others) supposition that a basically new bike for sale at a pawn shop for 1/3 the normal price is possibly stolen is somehow "misplaced paranoia"? What part of this reasoning, evidently widely shared by law enforcement agencies, is misplaced or paranoid?
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Old 07-04-18, 03:03 PM
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Originally Posted by seeker333
Police often check pawn shops first for stolen items, because unlike most merchants pawn shops sell stolen property, but my (and others) supposition that a basically new bike for sale at a pawn shop for 1/3 the normal price is possibly stolen is somehow "misplaced paranoia"? What part of this reasoning, evidently widely shared by law enforcement agencies, is misplaced or paranoid?
Yes, misplaced paranoia for exactly that reason, police often check pawn shops first for stolen items, and for the most part what they do is have the owners watch for them. The last thing a pawn shop owner wants is to buy stolen goods. He will lose his business that way.
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Old 06-30-19, 04:09 PM
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re: $700 sutra

screams a bargain - i just bought mine on sale for $1500 AUD- $800 off retail- brand new- grab it- what are you waiting for!
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Old 06-30-19, 07:19 PM
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^ Good on ya.

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