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Need New Rims

Old 09-19-18, 02:17 PM
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Originally Posted by desconhecido
Prices of CR18 and M13II rims seem to be creeping up since the apparent demise of Niagara, who always seemed to have the best prices.
....
This is the first I heard that Niagara is not around any more. I bought a LOT of stuff from them. When did they go out of business?
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Old 09-19-18, 02:31 PM
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I’ve had one set of wheels custom built, only because I needed a particular hub rim combo that was not available. Every other wheel has been bought online or off the shelf. If you are just buying a set of wheels and don’t have any special requirements, machine built off the shelf wheels are really no different than custom wheels. You can always get a mechanic to check them. The cheapo rear wheel I just bought was perfectly true after I stress relieved it in the store, and the mechanic put it on a truing stand. It’s your money, but don’t think you are getting something better just because the guy down the street built it.
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Old 09-19-18, 02:43 PM
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What’s the narrowest tire you might use?

If Mavic 319 are around they’re good. Velocity Atlas.

I had A23, for touring and rim brakes I’d get something with more meat, heavier.

Last edited by LeeG; 09-19-18 at 03:31 PM.
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Old 09-19-18, 02:53 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
This is the first I heard that Niagara is not around any more. I bought a LOT of stuff from them. When did they go out of business?
Things on the website started getting weird a couple two or three months back -- almost nothing in stock etc. It appeared that it was impossible to actually order anything. Now, the website is some sort of placeholder and the business address doesn't show a real live business, if i understand correctly. Also, they used to sell a ton of bike items through Amazon. Now, they appear to have no Amazon presence.

Who knows what happened, certainly not me, but a good wag is that the credit demon snuck up from behind and consumed them whole. Seems to me that two mistakes make up for a lot of business failures: 1: allowing credit to consume too much of your margin and, 2 not properly allocating capital for maintenance and equipment replacement/improvement. As we just learned, Niagara didn't make anything so the a likely cause is poor credit management. Just like the Incredible Bulk.
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Old 09-20-18, 04:29 AM
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Originally Posted by desconhecido
Things on the website started getting weird a couple two or three months back -- almost nothing in stock etc. It appeared that it was impossible to actually order anything. Now, the website is some sort of placeholder and the business address doesn't show a real live business, if i understand correctly. Also, they used to sell a ton of bike items through Amazon. Now, they appear to have no Amazon presence.

Who knows what happened, certainly not me, but a good wag is that the credit demon snuck up from behind and consumed them whole. Seems to me that two mistakes make up for a lot of business failures: 1: allowing credit to consume too much of your margin and, 2 not properly allocating capital for maintenance and equipment replacement/improvement. As we just learned, Niagara didn't make anything so the a likely cause is poor credit management. Just like the Incredible Bulk.
Thanks for responding. Yes, I learned of their Amazon presence a couple years ago and occasionally ordered from them on Amazon instead of directly from them.

I doubt that credit was a downfall, but with a small business that is ordering stuff from several sources and reselling it on the internet with a small margin, it is impossible to say what lead to their demise. Could be rising costs, could be the owner wanted to retire, could be dozens of things.

They were one of a small handful of internet sellers that I used for several years. When I built up another touring bike a year and a half ago, they were one of three internet vendors that I used for almost all of my components.
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Old 09-20-18, 04:40 AM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
Thanks for responding. Yes, I learned of their Amazon presence a couple years ago and occasionally ordered from them on Amazon instead of directly from them.

I doubt that credit was a downfall, but with a small business that is ordering stuff from several sources and reselling it on the internet with a small margin, it is impossible to say what lead to their demise. Could be rising costs, could be the owner wanted to retire, could be dozens of things.

They were one of a small handful of internet sellers that I used for several years. When I built up another touring bike a year and a half ago, they were one of three internet vendors that I used for almost all of my components.
I too have purchased many things from Niagra. I did notice that they took longer and longer to ship. I suspect that they may have had personnel issues. A mail order business needs people to pick and pack. Perhaps things that they claimed to have in stock were actually sourced when ordered? A dying business usually has fewer and fewer items in stock.
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Old 09-20-18, 04:50 AM
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Went with Deore hubs, Alpine III spokes and Rhyno Lite rims. All in black. Should be built by late next week.
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Old 09-20-18, 12:58 PM
  #33  
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Rhyno Lite

the most oxymoron of terms in all of cycling.
certainly sturdy though.
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Old 09-20-18, 03:58 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
Went with Deore hubs, Alpine III spokes and Rhyno Lite rims. All in black. Should be built by late next week.
Thanks.
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Old 09-21-18, 09:07 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
Rhyno Lite

the most oxymoron of terms in all of cycling.
certainly sturdy though.
At an advertised weight of 575g, they're not light, but, Mavic 719 rims are narrower and at least twice as expensive and 565g. A319: narrower and 597 g. CR18 and H Plus Son TB14 are about 4mm narrower and right under 500g. So, they're not light, but not overly heavy for what they are.
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Old 09-21-18, 09:24 AM
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Originally Posted by desconhecido
At an advertised weight of 575g, they're not light, but, Mavic 719 rims are narrower and at least twice as expensive and 565g. A319: narrower and 597 g. CR18 and H Plus Son TB14 are about 4mm narrower and right under 500g. So, they're not light, but not overly heavy for what they are.
I was really just joking about the name since it makes me think of a rhinoceros and light weight which arent typically thought of as co-existing. Hence the oxymoron comment.
The rim could weigh 300g and i would still think the name is a funny oxymoron.

As for the weights you mention, yes the Rhyno Lite is a wider rim than others you mention. For 700c drop bar road and gravel touring, a 17.5mm internal and 23mm externa double walledl rim will be more than sufficient in terms of strength, reliability, and fitting 38mm tires. So yes, the Rhyno Lite is wider, but at a point it just doesnt create much benefit. Eventually diminishing returns come into play.
An Archetype rim is plenty wide for a 38mm(or wider) tire, builds up strong, and is super reliable. It weighs 105g less per rim than a Rhyno Lite. Its touring and 210g doesnt need to be fretted over, but nothing is given up to get that lesser weight. Almost half a pound lighter. Almost half a pound of less rotational weight to get moving from a stop every time.


Anyways, really not wanting to go back and forth on numbers. The Rhyno Lite isnt severely heavier than some competitors- i agree. But that wasnt really the point of the post I made. I was commenting on the name itself.

If someone came out with a rim called Porky Mcliteweight, I would make the same comment since thats a funny oxymoron.
Tank Feather would be a funny oxymoron for a rim too.
etc etc etc.
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Old 09-21-18, 10:02 AM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
[...]
Anyways, really not wanting to go back and forth on numbers. The Rhyno Lite isnt severely heavier than some competitors- i agree. But that wasnt really the point of the post I made. I was commenting on the name itself.

If someone came out with a rim called Porky Mcliteweight, I would make the same comment since thats a funny oxymoron.
Tank Feather would be a funny oxymoron for a rim too.
etc etc etc.
Yeah, I get it.

Somewhere I read that CR18s are not as light as advertised, so I just went out and weighed a 32h 700c and it come in at 530g. Wouldn't surprise me if the rhynos come in overweight too. Maybe Sun is using Donald Trump's scale.
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Old 09-21-18, 01:11 PM
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Originally Posted by desconhecido
... Maybe Sun is using Donald Trump's scale.
Many if not most of the people on this forum have strong political opinions, I know I do. But I prefer bike forums that are free of politics so I keep my political opinions to myself when posting here.
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Old 09-24-18, 09:31 AM
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I've used Mavic A719's & CXP33's, and can recommend both. Mine are on Shimano XT mountain hubs. The CXP33's were first. They got run over by a car and were replaced with A719's. The same hubs have been going strong for nine years of touring.
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Old 09-24-18, 10:09 AM
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Built up my last loaded touring wheelset with Sun metals Rhyno,
their 'Not light' model .

sold the prior ones, still fine, with Mavic's Mod 4 rims..
both wheel sets 40 spoke front, 48 rear.

Freewheel hub.. Bullseye.. this was circa 95..
Bullseye uses a drop in 6001 bearing..
put full ball compliment Enduro bearings in it..





....
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Old 09-26-18, 10:26 AM
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All Around Wheelset Hierarchy for Road Bike I came across this website comparing a number of rims. The list is far from comprehensive but still useful.
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Old 10-06-18, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
I am pretty happy with my Velocity Dyads that I put on my Backroad.

But, if your spokes are in good enough shape to last another eight years, if you go with the same exact rim that you are replacing, you could transfer over the spokes to a new rim. Tape teh new rim to the old, making sure that the valve hole is next to the hole on the other rim. Then, transfer the spokes over from one rim to the other. I find it is easier if iI loosen ever spoke first by about one to two nipple rotations.

This of course only works if the rim ERD is the same, that is why I said the same exact rim is used.

I am not sure if you are going to take this shortcut, so I am overly concise in my description here.
I too am having a great run out of my Velocity Dyads.

I initially was going to go with the Alpine 111 spokes after reading about them in I believe a 2012 post by Cyccommute, but learnt that the thickness at the j-bend wasn't friendly with my IGH, so went with CX-Rays.

Being disk braked, I haven't had to worry about rim wear and I've had them tension checked/adjusted a few times now before tours and have no spoke breakages to report.

I had initially worried about the extra stresses of disks might have produced more fatigue wear manifesting from the wheels but I'm thinking at this stage that my experiment paid off.

They've been so problem free for me that I got my Extra-wheel trailer a mirror build of the bikes front wheel, being a 36 spoke, dyno-hub, Dyad with CX-Rays.

Last edited by rifraf; 10-06-18 at 10:29 AM. Reason: spelling
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Old 10-06-18, 10:42 AM
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Sounds great

Originally Posted by indyfabz
Went with Deore hubs, Alpine III spokes and Rhyno Lite rims. All in black. Should be built by late next week.
Sounds good, let us know how you get on with them.
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Old 10-06-18, 12:49 PM
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Originally Posted by rifraf
I too am having a great run out of my Velocity Dyads.

I initially was going to go with the Alpine 111 spokes after reading about them in I believe a 2012 post by Cyccommute, but learnt that the thickness at the j-bend wasn't friendly with my IGH, so went with CX-Rays.

Being disk braked, I haven't had to worry about rim wear and I've had them tension checked/adjusted a few times now before tours and have no spoke breakages to report.

I had initially worried about the extra stresses of disks might have produced more fatigue wear manifesting from the wheels but I'm thinking at this stage that my experiment paid off.

They've been so problem free for me that I got my Extra-wheel trailer a mirror build of the bikes front wheel, being a 36 spoke, dyno-hub, Dyad with CX-Rays.
I have been using Wheelsmith DB-14 spokes on almost all of my wheels for over a decade. For the past half decade I have been using Sapim nipples. But my Rohloff wheel that I built up five years ago had such an unusual spoke length that I could not find any DB-14s, so I used straight gauge Wheelsmith instead.

I have not broken a spoke on any wheels that I built up new. I did break a spoke where I reused the spokes and hub from a 1960s wheel with a new rim, but that spoke broke in the early 1990s, the spoke was 30 years old when it broke.

Since I carry spare spokes on bike tours, that must be why I do not break any spokes any more.

My Dyads are 36 spoke rear and 32 spoke front on my Lynskey. Also put a 32 spoke Dyad on the front on my rando bike.
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Old 10-07-18, 02:01 AM
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Dyads

Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
I have been using Wheelsmith DB-14 spokes on almost all of my wheels for over a decade. For the past half decade I have been using Sapim nipples. But my Rohloff wheel that I built up five years ago had such an unusual spoke length that I could not find any DB-14s, so I used straight gauge Wheelsmith instead.

I have not broken a spoke on any wheels that I built up new. I did break a spoke where I reused the spokes and hub from a 1960s wheel with a new rim, but that spoke broke in the early 1990s, the spoke was 30 years old when it broke.

Since I carry spare spokes on bike tours, that must be why I do not break any spokes any more.

My Dyads are 36 spoke rear and 32 spoke front on my Lynskey. Also put a 32 spoke Dyad on the front on my rando bike.
36 hole was the max I could go with regarding my Rohloff and I think Son dynohub at the time (not sure if thats changed now in 2018) so I went with it.

Likely not helpful now, but a US firm "Wheelbuilder.com" previous built up a set of wheels custom shortening some bladed spokes when the factory available ones weren't close to the size I needed for a 406 rim and Sondelux hub (my point being some people can offer a custom spoke sizing capability).

No one I could find at the time, who was recommended, offered such a service in Australia and I was glad of the option I went with.
Certainly Wheelbuilders international customer service at the time was second to none.
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Old 10-07-18, 06:13 AM
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Originally Posted by rifraf
...
Likely not helpful now, but a US firm "Wheelbuilder.com" previous built up a set of wheels custom shortening some bladed spokes when the factory available ones weren't close to the size I needed for a 406 rim and Sondelux hub (my point being some people can offer a custom spoke sizing capability).

No one I could find at the time, who was recommended, offered such a service in Australia and I was glad of the option I went with.
Certainly Wheelbuilders international customer service at the time was second to none.
I have never used a bladed spoke, so I am totally ignorant of them, other than occasionally seeing a wheel that has them.

I used to buy my spokes at a local bike shop. They had a Phil Wood spoke threading machine. And they were the cheapest source of spokes in town, when you bought enough for a complete wheel they included a substantial discount.
Phil Wood & Co.

But that shop moved, so I had to start buying my spokes cut to length at the factory about five years ago. That was when I built up my Rohloff wheel (mine is also 36 spoke), thus was unable to have the butted spokes cut to length for that wheel when I could not source any elsewhere.

On this forum, some people have commented about Z bend pliers, but I have never used one.
https://www.wheelfanatyk.com/store/z...repair-pliers/

I learned a couple weeks ago that another local bike shop has a Phil spoke threading machine, but none of the mechanics there has used it so I am not sure if that will ever be of any help to me.
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Old 10-07-18, 09:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
I have been using Wheelsmith DB-14 spokes on almost all of my wheels for over a decade. For the past half decade I have been using Sapim nipples. But my Rohloff wheel that I built up five years ago had such an unusual spoke length that I could not find any DB-14s, so I used straight gauge Wheelsmith instead.
.
The one build concern I have with my wheels is my Sapim nipples.

I have since read about many cases of non specific brand aluminium nipples seizing and have worried about my Polyax doing the same, so wish I'd had the knowledge to specify brass.

When I've had them serviced/tensioned so far, no ones mentioned any of them being seized so fingers crossed......
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Old 10-07-18, 01:33 PM
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Originally Posted by rifraf
The one build concern I have with my wheels is my Sapim nipples.

I have since read about many cases of non specific brand aluminium nipples seizing and have worried about my Polyax doing the same, so wish I'd had the knowledge to specify brass.

When I've had them serviced/tensioned so far, no ones mentioned any of them being seized so fingers crossed......
My Sapim nipples are not Aluminium, they are plated brass. I was unaware they made them in Aluminum.

I assume you can true up a wheel, when someone specifies the brand of their spokes and nipples, I jump to that conclusion.

If that is much of a concern for you, it probably would not take a lot of time to loosen all of them, then replace one at a time and re-true it up. Yeah it would be a few hours per wheel, but if it was something I was concerned about for a touring bike, I would not want to be stranded somewhere so I would do it at home while I had some mindless TV show playing in the background for a distraction.
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Old 10-07-18, 05:43 PM
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Liking the new wheels. The all black hubs, rims and spokes go well with my black LHT with black chainrings.
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Old 10-07-18, 06:46 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz
Liking the new wheels. The all black hubs, rims and spokes go well with my black LHT with black chainrings.
Pics or it it didn’t happen.
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