mstateglfr 

all my road bikes, touring bike, and gravel bike are steel. They span the 80s thru to the present and use multiple tubing models as well as diameters and butting profiles.

even I find your poetic waxing over the romantic idea of a steel frame touring bike to be over the top.

fietsbob

Rather than ask the forum to micromanage this,
crack that wallet open and get that build money out... 4 figures..


Tell experienced builders , of touring bikes , like Co.Motion, Size;
how big a frame you need, how heavy you are,
and how much you plan to carry , on tours
and leave it to them to pick the tubing brands, wall thickness, and diameters..

As they make tandems, they are experienced in this, also..





....

McBTC

few have given it more thought than Trek and for 2019...

1-track-mind

Ok, then. Let's talk ideal geometry for an XL frame with .9/.6/.9
Let's start with a seat tube angle of 73, chainstay at 450...what else ?

McBTC

In addition to a relaxed head tube angle of... say, 72.5° or less (which is not unusual in many modern XL road bikes), a more generous seat tube angle -- for example, even less than 72° -- also is a very desirable geometry in a XL tour bike and goes well with the longer chain stays (which leads to a longer wheelbase)-- all of the old XL tour bikes had a wheelbase of >104... a body forward aerodynamic position such a using aerobars, a tight cockpit is okay but for a tour bike, a ride with longer legs needs a more relaxed seat tube to get the knees behind the pedal spindle in the power drive when cranking up a mountain with full panniers and even then, a setback seat post will be needed.

Wilfred Laurier

I (6'5", 230lbs) finished a fully-loaded tour this summer on my no-name aluminum touring frame with aluminum fork. My chum (6'4" 260 lbs) was riding a new brand name steel tourer. We tried eachothers bikes and he claimed to prefer my bike as he felt his was too flexy. My bike was also noticeable lighter when unloaded (my friend packed the kitchen sink as a place to keep the bathroom and laundry room sink he also packed, so loaded comparison is not valid).

In my experience, aluminum is a better material for heavy riders. Steel may be easier to repair, but aluminum, in my experience, is less likely to need repair.

Signed,
Lover of steel and classic bikes

mstateglfr 

73deg seat tube, 72.5 or 73deg head tube, 50 or 55mm fork rake(depending on head tube angle and style of riding) for stability under 30mph and for a nice front loaded rack setup.
depending on 72.5 or 73 HTA and 50 or 55mm fork rake- you will get a trail of between 49 and 58mm, the 49mm of trail is with 73HTA and 55mm fork rake for the least trail of the different combinations.


As for stack, reach, and bottom bracket height- all those would be dependent on the actual frame size needed. I would certainly want a taller head tube to allow for fewer spacers. most likely a 6degree sloping top tube to help with stack height and make mount/dismount easier.

1-track-mind

Thanks for all the comments. Please critique this geo (XL/59 Rocky Mountain Sherpa 30);
TTL 630
HTA 69
HTL 130
STA 73
STL 508
CL 445
BBD30
REach 438
Stack 631
Standover 723
Wheelbase 1159
Tubing- Reynolds 725

fietsbob

Going to build it yourself ? consult this section; https://www.bikeforums.net/framebuilders/

1-track-mind

I just might do that now that my Soma Saga purchase seems to have fallen through.

fietsbob

You Braze or TIG weld ?

1-track-mind

Bob
This may be a shock to you, but I'm not a frame builder...I interpreted yourself as having one custom built, but after checking it's out of my budget. Now,considering buying a Soma Saga frame and building it up...

McBTC

63 is a pretty long top tube, especially for a 59... "XL" is more like a size 61 or more and it'd be pretty long for that size bike too-- that's a feature that Lemond road bikes exhibited and many commented about being too stretched out. Heat tube length would be much better over 200... maybe 230 or more on a XL

TiHabanero

Without question the only touring bike I have ridden over 60cm in size with burdened with 40-50 lbs of gear that performed like a road bike was the old Cannondale Touring (This bike has been mentioned in an earlier post). They were magically competent loaded touring rigs.

Cannondale does have a touring model available now. It has updated tubing and design along with disc brakes. Rides like a road bike unloaded for sure. Have yet to load one up with gear, but I suspect it will do just fine. If you can find a vintage Cdale Touring frame in your size do consider it as they really were great bikes out on the road with gear.

mplsbiker

mstateglfr 

My touring bike is a 64cm frame from 1990. It has a 25.4 top tube and steerer and a 28.6 down tube and seat tube. Handles my 230# plus gear just fine. I have about 30# on it, give or take.

Everyone’s expectations for ride are different. Everyone’s perception of what is safe is different. Everyone’s level of comfort is different.
Etc etc etc.
There is no right or wrong frame design or tubing for a touring bike as its simply individual in nature and everyone like something a little different than others.

I mention all this because I often see claims that traditional tubing is too flexible and even sometimes see a comment that its flexible to the point of dangerous. I chuckle when I read that since I am in the high 90th% for height and weight and somehow manage to feel totally confident on a traditional tube sized touring bike that’s 64cm. I have never felt unsafe on it.
The tubing is splined, which creates a stiffer main triangle compared to un-splined tubing, but I would guess it’s a small bit stiffer and not something wildly dramatic to where it makes traditional diameter tubing as stiff as OS tubing or something like that.

Anyways, there are a lot of touring bike styles available and that matches perfectly with there also being a lot of touring riders who like different styles.
Nothing is perfect for everyone. Someone may love a huge OS downtube Cannondale touring frame. Someone may love a whippy 531 frame from the early 80s. etc etc.

For what its worth, I have a Cannondale Touring frame from about ’93. HUGE downtube that’s bazooka in size. Its hanging on a hook in my garage waiting to be built up…maybe this winter. No desire to use it for loaded touring due to the tire size limitation, but it should be fun to build into a canti-brake road bike. I will be interested to see how harsh the ride is given the tubing design and riding it unloaded.

Tourist in MSN

I am not sure what year my friends bike is from, but he has crossed the USA coast to coast three times on this bike, plus several other trips. When the photo was taken he had only done two cross country trips, was getting ready for his third. And he had only used bar end shifters for a couple of weeks when the photo was taken. His rear 9 speed brifter crapped out and he could not find a good replacement in time to start his next tour so he switched to bar ends.

If he did not like the bike, he would not have kept using it for all those trips.

pdlamb

My daughter has a Cannondale Touring bike from around 2005 that takes 37 tires handily. She loves the soft ride, but doesn't do a lot of long rides on it. How big a tire are you looking to run?

mstateglfr 

Pretty sure its a T700 from '93. max is 32mm tires with fender or 35mm tires otherwise. Thats going off what remember when I measured over a year ago after buuing the frame.
Im sure itll be a fun ride once built up. Itll be interesting to ride it right before/after my touring bike to feel the difference in flex with that seemingly 60mm downtube.

Tourist in MSN

My friends Cannondale that I posted the photo of (above in post number 42) usually has 35 or 37mm tires inside the fenders. So, perhaps his is newer. I do not think he started touring until this century, so his Cannondale is probably roughly 10 years newer than yours.

Another friend of mine had an early Cannondale touring bike, but it took 27 inch tires. He no longer has that bike. I think that bike also had a freewheel instead of cassette.

My Lynskey Backroad has a downtube that measures about 1.75 inches in diameter.

fietsbob

I was not Either, but after gaining brazing and metalworking skills,
being mechanically inclined father in metal trades, my bike shop jobs, etc
I gave it a try.,

worked out OK.. I did not try making a business out of it...

Soma , surly, salsa, Trek 520, will all get you down the road.. carrying your stuff.

so in the end you just turn over all the 'most desirable materials' choices,
to the company, importing the frames from a big company in Taiwan,
probably Maxway ,
a big OEM factory all of the above have gone to for many years ,
because they're good an it and beat the costs
of doing it in the States..




....

LeeG

LeeG

Paul Barnard

I read your post when you first started it and have read through a couple more times as comments have been made. I am not one to recommend what I have just because I have it, but in this case I think it is what you are looking for. I can guarantee you that the Lynskey Backroad is more than stiff enough in an XL. Lively is somewhat more subjective. I don't consider mine lively in the sense that my Tarmac was, I do however consider it responsive. Pleasantly so. They go on sale for close to $1000 from time to time. I got mine for $899. Here's my build thread. Lynskey Backroad Build

Trakhak

Shame that the OP is unlikely to consider aluminum, despite the positive reports in this thread from bigger riders who have toured on Cannondales and found them superior to steel-framed bikes. They remind me of the 285-pound weightlifter who bought a Cannondale from me and stopped by the bike shop a few weeks later to tell me how happy he was with it. He said that it was the first bike he'd ridden that didn't feel like overcooked spaghetti under him.