jitenshajin

From looking at Surly's range of framesets for the last decade or so, it seems that they have a yes and no offering of S&S couplers.

They seem to offer a touring frameset with S&S couplers pre-installed for a couple of years and then none for the next two years, only to offer them for the next couple of years.

Without having to ask Surly, who on past experience, probably won't have an answer.

Does anybody have ideas, as to why this might be the case?

Andrew R Stewart 

Various reasons come to mind. Demand VS supply. Changing contract manufacturers. Changing product managers' views. Changing buyers' views. Andy

alan s 

wschruba

? Have you spoken with a QBP dealer? If not well represented, they are available. Historically speaking, they had only offered them on the Cross Check, and only recently put them on the Trucker/other models.

FWIW, Bilenky in PA is more than happy to install/touch up for you. As the poster above mentioned, the price is about the same as the frame.

pdlamb

And possibly changing demand. I can imagine a couple hundred queries over the years from people who want an LHT with S&S couplers, so Surly listens to the demand and offers them. Everybody who wants one buys one the first couple years they're offered, and the third year Surly can't sell any. A few years go by, people who've see a coupled LHT start asking for one, they come out and are all snatched up, and once again (almost) everyone who wanted one as bought it, so the next year's coupled production sits in warehouses and dealer floors for a few years. Lather, rinse, and repeat.

indyfabz

Surly has always promptly answered my questions via email.

But don't let that stop you from asking for speculative answers.

Tourist in MSN

Just a wild guess, but demand changes over time. Since Bike Flights for domestic travel is a great deal, that might reduce the demand for S&S couplers at this time. But alternative ways to ship a bike have ephemeral pricing and come and go over time. Thus, demand likely changes over time too.

If you are costing out the alternatives, do not forget to include the cost of the travel case into your decision.

I think my trip next year with my S&S bike will finally make the couplers and case worth the price in airline savings, but I built up that bike in 2013 so is taking a while to make the couplers and case cost effective.

But one non-cost aspect that I love about the couplers is that I can use a small taxi to go to and from an airport with my bike in an S&S case. Getting a bike box to or from an airport can be a hassle if you are traveling alone.

Andrew R Stewart 

[QUOTE=Tourist in MSN;20600418]Just a wild guess, but demand changes over time. Since Bike Flights for domestic travel is a great deal, that might reduce the demand for S&S couplers at this time. But alternative ways to ship a bike have ephemeral pricing and come and go over time. Thus, demand likely changes over time too.

If you are costing out the alternatives, do not forget to include the cost of the travel case into your decision.

I think my trip next year with my S&S bike will finally make the couplers and case worth the price in airline savings, but I built up that bike in 2013 so is taking a while to make the couplers and case cost effective.

But one non-cost aspect that I love about the couplers is that I can use a small taxi to go to and from an airport with my bike in an S&S case. Getting a bike box to or from an airport can be a hassle if you are traveling alone.[/QUOTE]


Back in the 1990s my wife and I flew to Scotland a couple of times for bike tours. We were able to JUST barely fit our standard bike boxes into the cabs for the airport ride. I mean by an inch one time and, maybe, two inches the time before.

The two S&S frames I built have yet to be suitcased up, after 5 years. I just have to get the wife to want to tour where we have to fly into... Andy

jitenshajin

Yes, Surly do respond to queries via email.

I just thought that it was a rather general business and marketing question.

I am communicating with them on another matter at the moment.

I just thought that I should take one thing at a time.

jitenshajin

Thanks Andrew.

"Bike Flights for domestic travel is a great deal, that might reduce the demand for S&S couplers at this time. But alternative ways to ship a bike have ephemeral pricing and come and go over time."

Do you mean that bikes are cheap to take with you on domestic (USA) flights? Also what are the alternative ways, and ephemeral pricing you mention?

I am interested in international travel with a bike. From and to the UK.

I was also thinking of not using a case or box, unless necessary, to keep things as simple as possible. Instead, just placing the uncoupled bike taped up with some protection in a lightweight nylon bag, which I can carry all the time.

However, I need to do more research to see if this is possible, or if another another method is better.

Andrew R Stewart 

jitenshajin- I can't defend or further explain the poster I quoted, only what I wrote myself. so here's my understanding of domestic flights, WRT bikes as baggage, is that it's a moving target and tilted to the airlines not wanting to deal with bikes at all. I have had, in one round trip, three different claims of added on baggage cost for bikes. One was what the airline phone rep. said. The second was what the out bound counter clerk did and the third was what the return flight counter clerk did. Each time the counter clerks didn't care what was said or done prior to their moment in the sun. I also have found that the international portions of a flight had different rules and costs then the domestic portion of the same trip. It was these confusions and conditions that have led me to avoid air travel with a bike when ever at all possible. My building our S&S frames was an attempt to ease this in the future, still yet to be taken advantage of.

As to how one packs their bike- I have read of simple bagging/wrapping the bike with no tear down, no hard sided boxing. I have read that it worked well, which seems at face value to be counter intuitive. The idea from what I've read is that the baggage handlers can't simple gorilla the bike about as there are no hand holds, that since the bike won't really stack or pack under other boxes/packages it will be on top of the other items. I have never been trusting enough to test this out. (Santana has done as such on their travel offers, but I suspect 10 to 20 pairs of travelers do get one a bit of leverage compared to a single or 2 customers do). I also suspect that what you'll find on domestic flights will differ with what international flights are controlled by.

Whatever you do do I strongly suggest you get in writing any requirements or guidelines and have them on hand when at the counter. Andy

indyfabz

I did it back in '99 coming back to the U.S. from Spain through London. Three flights (two on Iberia and one on British Airways) with the bike in an Iberia-provided plastic bag. Rear wheel needed very minor truing. I am not aware of any U.S. airlines that will take a bike in a bag, but that doesn't mean there are not any. In more recent times I have flown with a bike on U.S Airways, Delta and Southwest. All required boxes. I believe United does as well. As I may have mentioned above, I now ship domestically using bikeflights.com and have a LBS assemble and tune the bike so it's ready when I arrive. Packing, shipping and re-assembly doesn't that cost all that much more than what the airlines usually fly charge, and there are no ground transportation or TSA issues. And the LBS have been happy to hold my box and duffel bag during my tours. To me, some things are just worth the extra money.

Tourist in MSN

Andrew tried to quote my text, but the website did not quite work right for him. I am the one that said:
"Bike Flights for domestic travel is a great deal, that might reduce the demand for S&S couplers at this time. But alternative ways to ship a bike have ephemeral pricing and come and go over time."

I am in USA. Thus when I commented on Bike Flights for domestic travel, I meant if you are flying from a USA airport to a different USA airport, Bike Flights was generally a better option. But I believe that Bike Flights only serves the USA market.
https://www.bikeflights.com/

You really need to research this more from the airlines that you are likely to use. The USA airlines are generally pretty hostile to bicyclists, but I have heard much more positive comments from Europeans about their airlines. You might be able to pack up a bike quite differently than we can in USA for air travel.

And, I have not been watching what is going on with Brexit, but if the UK stops being part of the EU customs union, that could complicate shipping a bike even more for you.

Sorry if I was not clear on my location, but most of the people on this forum are in USA, not Europe.

fietsbob

QBP uses Maxway Ltd of Taiwan a big bike manufacturing company, for production of their Surly brand bikes

S and S Machine, is a company in California.

So, a shipment of BTC has to go to overseas, to the company that makes the bikes for QBP's Surly Division.

On the Folding Travel Bikes using S and S Machine Bicycle Torque Couplings™ site is a list of framebuilders doing retro fits.. Framebuilder List For S and S Machine Bicycle Torque Couplings (BTCs)





....

fietsbob

By the way, after fitting the BTC, you are not immune from having an Airline employee,
demanding to see in the case before giving you a boarding pass,
and seeing its a bike charging the fee nonetheless..

In a Bike touring Destination town @ the LBS, On the Oregon Coast,
I had a conversation with someone who had, just this happen ,
And that is what was what they said, was their airport experience, getting Here..




...

veganbikes

S & S couplers are an excellent idea and I always toy with the idea of getting them but then I think to myself, do I really need them and when am I going to use them. It nags at my brain often because I see times when I wish I had them but then I think, I probably wouldn't have wanted to schlep the bike anyway.

If you really want one plenty of US makers can do coupled bikes or retrofits. Not saying it is cheap but you can get exactly what you want.

Tourist in MSN

Talk to SJS about Thorns, although they do not list all of their models as being fitted with S&S couplings, I think they can have them fitted. My S&S bike is a Thorn Nomad. That is a heavy duty expedition bike, probably more heavy duty than you are interested in but they make lighter duty bikes too. They sell complete bikes or frames & forks. I built up my Nomad from the frame and fork.
https://www.sjscycles.co.uk/thorn/

One more bit of trivia, 26 inch wheels fit in a S&S case better than 700c wheels.

seeker333

S&S couplers were not a Surly model (yes or no) option - in fact coupled framesets were offered as separate models in distinct finishes. The Travelers Check was offered from 2008 to 2011, then later from 2014 to present, so it was the cyclocross frameset that was offered over two periods, not the touring frameset (Trucker Deluxe was offered from 2010 to 2013). The reasons for limited availability of these models were likely demand, availability of couplings, and production scheduling of these more labor-intensive models, including the coupled World Troller. Maxway could probably handle adding only one coupled frame to their schedule at a time within cost constraint. Couplings double the cost and price of a steel frameset, so expensive coupled framesets are usually not the popular choice, thus made/sold in short runs.

DropBarFan

This seems plausible but it's been 5 years since Trucker Deluxe departed so I'd guess it's unlikely to come back, esp considering the proliferation of competing models incl gravel/adventure bikes.

Andrew R Stewart makes a good point about cost of the travel cases, esp if one gets a hard case.

Trucker & couplers seem like a natural combination but with the Trucker geometry (long wheelbase, long steerer tube, horizontal top tube) it's lengthy & difficult to pack/assemble & there's little or no room left for racks & fenders. On tour one needs a place to store the case so a point-to-point tour would require shipping the case?

What if one finds a new favorite bike before couplers pay off?

Andrew R Stewart 

"Trucker & couplers seem like a natural combination but with the Trucker geometry (long wheelbase, long steerer tube, horizontal top tube) it's lengthy & difficult to pack/assemble & there's little or no room left for racks & fenders. On tour one needs a place to store the case so a point-to-point tour would require shipping the case?" DropBarFan

My S&S bikes are not full on loaded tourers but credit card ones. As I don't think I'll be camping touring anywhere but in North America I'm happy with BikeFlights for my full rig. (As was the case last summer when I went part way across the US).

Here's a shot of the wife on her S&S bike at the start of our recently driven to Carolina Tailwinds Centeral TN tour. You can just barely see the TT coupler past her cheek BTW we had a great time (but for her slide out fall on a wet and down hill turn on the last day). We recommend their tours for those who want the nicest accommodations and best guides (at the cost it takes, of course). Andy

alan s 

Tourist in MSN

Now that it is photo time, my Thorn Nomad with S&S couplers in Iceland. I usually use fenders (mudguards) on this bike but they did not fit in my luggage with all my other camping gear, so no fenders on this trip.




I cut some short pieces of inner tube rubber to stretch over the ends of the S&S coupler "nuts" to keep the dirt and crud out of the coupler threads.

linus

I take two trips per year about 2 months. And I don't do much touring in North America so S&S coupled bike is no brainer.

The bike (Salsa Travel Stainless Steel) and the case on the bottom left. Medford, Oregon last year just landed and bike assembled looking for a hotel nearby. Packed a wrong multi-tool so I just hand tightened thru-axles and pedals.



In Vietnam loaded.

DropBarFan

That Salsa Travel is pretty sharp looking. I recently learned that the Tubus Tara front rack folds up which helps packing I suppose. Apparently a lot of S&S users omit the fenders. I thought about cutting fenders in half with a little bracket to bolt them together, perhaps not worth the bother but for rainy areas it seems a shame to leave fenders behind.

If I use the S&S for travel again I'm going to pay special attention to tools: a little 1/4" ratchet handle with allen/torx bits might speed things up a lot. One can even get that in titanium for a mere $635 (designed for medical use).

Tourist in MSN

I was unaware that Salsa made a stainless steel frame. Looks nice. I assumed it was Titanium until I read your text. What sizes are your chainrings?

Be careful about hand tightening your pedals. A friend of mine did that, he intended to wrench them later and forgot. One pedal partly unthreaded and he had to replace either a crank arm or a whole crankset, I do not recall if he was able to source only one arm or needed the whole crankset.

The Tara does not really fold, but with the parts that are horizontal and attach to the mid-fork mounts, when those horizonal bars are removed from the fork and parallel with the other part of the Tara, it does collapse pretty small. I tried a Tara on my Nomad but it did not fit quite right, thus I am using a different rack.

I bought some small shorty fenders but the mount that came with it on each fender is not going to work on my frame. I have not fabricated the new mounts yet for the fork crown or seat stay bridge, that is on my things to do list.