Disc brakes or rim brakes?
#101
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Exactly! In the rain, disc might mean the difference between a close call vs a damaged bike or even a trip to the hospital. One time on a loaded mountain descent thru heavy fog the rim brakes were near useless...I actually had to use a runaway truck ramp to stop. I switched ASAP to disc brakes.
Want more? I’ve ridden in freezing drizzle, snow, hail and rain without hub mounted disc brakes mostly because they didn’t exist. We seemed to have been able to survive. Heck we even invented mountain biking with only cantilever brakes.
Sorry but saying that you are going to “take a trip to the hospital” because you don’t use hub mounted disc brakes isn’t backed up by decades of experience.
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Stuart Black
Plan Epsilon Around Lake Michigan in the era of Covid
Old School…When It Wasn’t Ancient bikepacking
Gold Fever Three days of dirt in Colorado
Pokin' around the Poconos A cold ride around Lake Erie
Dinosaurs in Colorado A mountain bike guide to the Purgatory Canyon dinosaur trackway
Solo Without Pie. The search for pie in the Midwest.
Picking the Scablands. Washington and Oregon, 2005. Pie and spiders on the Columbia River!
#102
Senior Member
I’ve actually never had much problem with them, but some folks seem to have issues with them scrubbing and stuff. I do find I have to take more time lining up the disk to get it into the caliper compared to just dropping in the rim braked wheel. And the fact that they’d all be using hudraulic brakes could be disaster in a quick change situation. Somehow the brake lever accidentally gets bumped while the wheel is out and suddenly you have a compressed caliper, and that wheel isn’t going back in...
#103
Senior Member
.... I do find I have to take more time lining up the disk to get it into the caliper compared to just dropping in the rim braked wheel. And the fact that they’d all be using hudraulic brakes could be disaster in a quick change situation. Somehow the brake lever accidentally gets bumped while the wheel is out and suddenly you have a compressed caliper, and that wheel isn’t going back in...
took me a while to get better at disc wheel putting back.
and yes, wheel off can result in accidental lever push and pads moved out too much. Happened to me once when bike was in cardboard box for a flight.
#104
Senior Member
Let’s not go too hyperbolic. I have done loaded descents in rain many times with rim brakes and lived to tell the tale. I’ve even done mountain bike downhills with cantilever brakes in driving a driving rain storm and lived to tell the tale. I’ve also done long fast downhills in snow (not by choice) with cantilever brakes and lived to tell the tail.
Want more? I’ve ridden in freezing drizzle, snow, hail and rain without hub mounted disc brakes mostly because they didn’t exist. We seemed to have been able to survive. Heck we even invented mountain biking with only cantilever brakes.
Sorry but saying that you are going to “take a trip to the hospital” because you don’t use hub mounted disc brakes isn’t backed up by decades of experience.
Its all about assessing the braking power one has and moderating your speed for those conditions and how your braking is--but its like downhill or cross country skiing on downhills, you have to be aware of the surfaces of snow and ice to judge if you can stop properly in a given distance, so one has to constantly judge that, and have your speed according to what is safe for the conditions.
Just like driving a car in snow, no matter how much abs braking system or drift control or whatever you have on your car, it comes down to judging what traction you have for the given surface, and adjusting your speed to what you know you can safely stop in a given distance and or how much straight line traction you have if driving along on a straight road.
its the same with braking with bikes, doesnt matter what braking system you have, you have to have a feel , from experience, of how your brake system is going to work, how fast you will slow down, and control your speed accordingly.
Yes its easy just like skiing in that in just a few seconds, your speed can get too high on a descent, and yes disc systems on a loaded touring bike generally have more stopping power, but you still have to ride within the limits.
and as Ive brought up, you can have great strong disc brakes, but if you haul on the front too hard on a wet or dirty surface, and or with some lean angle, you can lock the front easier than with rim brakes generally, so you still have to have that feel of how much front braking you can do before traction loss--and again, most folks are afraid of the front brake and dont use it to its max--so we come back to the whole issue of "braking ability" by Mr or Mrs X rider and the huge variability of this factor.
boy, we do like blah blahing about this topic don't we? ;-)
#105
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I have to agree. I haven't thought of braking as an issue since the days of cheap stamped calipers/steel rims on first gen mtb's. Even then, going down long hills in the mountains I just dragged my foot to slow down
Most brakes will work well enough. I put far more weight on paying attention to conditions and anticipating rather than reacting as stated above.
Most brakes will work well enough. I put far more weight on paying attention to conditions and anticipating rather than reacting as stated above.
#106
Senior Member
Anyone worried about braking probably ought to think about riding something other than a 700c road bike with narrow tires or... my secret-- I could go 20 mph on the flats but try to keep it under 13 mph for safety reasons. Yeah... that's the ticket.
#107
Senior Member
Now that they’re putting electronics on bikes and have hydraulic brakes, I wonder how long it’ll be before someone makes an ABS system.
#108
Senior Member
'lectronic brakes!!!! back in my day, the only 'lectronics on a bike was the bluetoof-enabled water bottles what reminded us it was time to pee!
#109
Senior Member
I have to agree. I haven't thought of braking as an issue since the days of cheap stamped calipers/steel rims on first gen mtb's. Even then, going down long hills in the mountains I just dragged my foot to slow down
Most brakes will work well enough. I put far more weight on paying attention to conditions and anticipating rather than reacting as stated above.
Most brakes will work well enough. I put far more weight on paying attention to conditions and anticipating rather than reacting as stated above.
Last edited by 350htrr; 11-17-18 at 04:32 PM. Reason: spelling
#110
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No it doesn't. You just need to htfu and stop letting unfounded anxiety guide your decision making.
Look, if you want to argue you like hydraulics, fine. No problem, fill yer boots. It's a lot like paint colour. However, if you want to argue you "need" them for touring because those other brakes aren't good enough I call B.S.
But the sentiment is not unique - many people who engage in outdoor pursuits are at times unsure of their abilities and seek an equipment solution as a buffer against that fear. The solution is not to encourage the irrational need for such gear but rather the acquisition of some skill.
In another recent thread someone suggested a Chris King headset and BB's were sort of a minimum for all season touring. Guess what, I call B.S. on that too.
There is a big difference between want and actual need.
Look, if you want to argue you like hydraulics, fine. No problem, fill yer boots. It's a lot like paint colour. However, if you want to argue you "need" them for touring because those other brakes aren't good enough I call B.S.
But the sentiment is not unique - many people who engage in outdoor pursuits are at times unsure of their abilities and seek an equipment solution as a buffer against that fear. The solution is not to encourage the irrational need for such gear but rather the acquisition of some skill.
In another recent thread someone suggested a Chris King headset and BB's were sort of a minimum for all season touring. Guess what, I call B.S. on that too.
There is a big difference between want and actual need.
#113
Senior Member
No it doesn't. You just need to htfu and stop letting unfounded anxiety guide your decision making.
Look, if you want to argue you like hydraulics, fine. No problem, fill yer boots. It's a lot like paint colour. However, if you want to argue you "need" them for touring because those other brakes aren't good enough I call B.S.
But the sentiment is not unique - many people who engage in outdoor pursuits are at times unsure of their abilities and seek an equipment solution as a buffer against that fear. The solution is not to encourage the irrational need for such gear but rather the acquisition of some skill.
In another recent thread someone suggested a Chris King headset and BB's were sort of a minimum for all season touring. Guess what, I call B.S. on that too.
There is a big difference between want and actual need.
Look, if you want to argue you like hydraulics, fine. No problem, fill yer boots. It's a lot like paint colour. However, if you want to argue you "need" them for touring because those other brakes aren't good enough I call B.S.
But the sentiment is not unique - many people who engage in outdoor pursuits are at times unsure of their abilities and seek an equipment solution as a buffer against that fear. The solution is not to encourage the irrational need for such gear but rather the acquisition of some skill.
In another recent thread someone suggested a Chris King headset and BB's were sort of a minimum for all season touring. Guess what, I call B.S. on that too.
There is a big difference between want and actual need.
As far as NEED, no I do NOT need disc brakes, nobody NEEDS hydraulic disc brakes per say, but, I would say, all anybody would NEED to do, is change the way they want to ride, so all they "need" to do Is ride differently, or MUST even, ride differently, and "problem solved" rime brake are good enough...
I have rode rim brake bicycles for like 20+ years and I did not realise how bad/POS they were until I got my last bike with hydraulic disks and... I entered a different world, of constant, predictable, braking distances, in ALL kinds of weather/conditions... Yes, born again would describe my attitude between rim or hydraulic brakes... BUT, I also believe if you do not think you need one you do not, probably because of the way you ride, where you ride, the conditions where you ride...
#114
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Yes, I get it. You ride an E bike now and need hydraulic brakes. Just like the thread where you claimed bicycle tourers needed really powerful solar chargers because, well in your case at least, it also included charging the actual E bike.
So I will rephrase: For traditional bicycle touring that does not include technical downhill mountain biking or motorized vehicles, there is no unique "need" for hydraulic disc brakes. The activity simply does not require that degree of sophistication. Yes, they are an option, but not a need. I would challenge someone to describe the type of touring, outside the two examples in the last sentence, that requires them or rather, suggests calipers, cantis or mechanical discs are not good enough.
So I will rephrase: For traditional bicycle touring that does not include technical downhill mountain biking or motorized vehicles, there is no unique "need" for hydraulic disc brakes. The activity simply does not require that degree of sophistication. Yes, they are an option, but not a need. I would challenge someone to describe the type of touring, outside the two examples in the last sentence, that requires them or rather, suggests calipers, cantis or mechanical discs are not good enough.
#116
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The faulty logic that sometimes occurs here is that someone, who has ridden bikes for a long time, finally builds their "dream" bike with all the fixuns: CK headsets, PW hubs, custom frame, hand built wheelsets, dynohubs, rohlhoff igh or campy groupset... and then talks about how they would never ride on anything less after that. Sure, great in itself. But if someone had told them at the start that they shouldn't choose a bike unless it had those things they would never have set foot on a tour to begin with.
Good stuff is good but in my mind nothing happens in isolation. What does the rest of the bike look like? Carpy but with excellent hydraulic disc brakes? How much does all that cost? What about panniers, tents, sleeping bags, clothing, cook gear... suggesting the best just because it's the best loses it's logic when you extrapolate it outwards to the whole activity and begin to see the cost of it all. Now add some drivel about how dangerous the other options are and it's a perfect way to talk someone out of ever trying what is a pretty low entry, safe pastime for the vast majority of users.
Good stuff is good but in my mind nothing happens in isolation. What does the rest of the bike look like? Carpy but with excellent hydraulic disc brakes? How much does all that cost? What about panniers, tents, sleeping bags, clothing, cook gear... suggesting the best just because it's the best loses it's logic when you extrapolate it outwards to the whole activity and begin to see the cost of it all. Now add some drivel about how dangerous the other options are and it's a perfect way to talk someone out of ever trying what is a pretty low entry, safe pastime for the vast majority of users.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 11-17-18 at 09:33 PM.
#117
Senior Member
Yes, I get it. You ride an E bike now and need hydraulic brakes. Just like the thread where you claimed bicycle tourers needed really powerful solar chargers because, well in your case at least, it also included charging the actual E bike.
So I will rephrase: For traditional bicycle touring that does not include technical downhill mountain biking or motorized vehicles, there is no unique "need" for hydraulic disc brakes. The activity simply does not require that degree of sophistication. Yes, they are an option, but not a need. I would challenge someone to describe the type of touring, outside the two examples in the last sentence, that requires them or rather, suggests calipers, cantis or mechanical discs are not good enough.
So I will rephrase: For traditional bicycle touring that does not include technical downhill mountain biking or motorized vehicles, there is no unique "need" for hydraulic disc brakes. The activity simply does not require that degree of sophistication. Yes, they are an option, but not a need. I would challenge someone to describe the type of touring, outside the two examples in the last sentence, that requires them or rather, suggests calipers, cantis or mechanical discs are not good enough.
MY point is "trying to be" here is "if" you are finding rim brake's "iffy", go to quality hydraulic discs, you would not be going wrong...
#118
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As far as the E-Bike thing, why, YES, I do believe I did say that one NEEDS to carry a powerful solar panel... Why would I say that,? because you NEED to charge the battery every day, or you go nowhere with the E-Bike the next day, (unless you find a current bush to plug it in somewhere)... Does that mean every tourer NEEDS to carry a powerful solar panel..??? NO, it does NOT, and I never said that... I do not know if you are trying to be obtuse , or if I am just failing to get my point across.. BUT...
MY point is "trying to be" here is "if" you are finding rim brake's "iffy", go to quality hydraulic discs, you would not be going wrong...
MY point is "trying to be" here is "if" you are finding rim brake's "iffy", go to quality hydraulic discs, you would not be going wrong...
Here's the thread : ? about Solar chargers
You begin arguing about the need for high output solar panels in post 11 and it's not until post 47 that you reveal you need that much power to charge your e bike. Yep, just like most other bicycle tourists.
As to your assertion: "if" you are finding rim brake's "iffy", go to quality hydraulic discs, you would not be going wrong. I would say, "Invest in learning how to adjust your current brakes properly first." You could not go wrong and would probably save a bunch of money in the process. It's a skills thing that will carry from bike to bike for the rest of your life.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 11-17-18 at 09:23 PM.
#120
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Seems I've addressed brakes intelligently in every post I've made so far. Pardon me for suggesting thinking about real needs instead of suggesting the most expensive solution as a default.
I will admit that the solar discussion is a detour but it illustrates how someone can suggest a need for a solution based on something outside the activity at hand. In the touring section we talk about touring yet many of the suggestions about hydraulic brakes are coming from downhill technical mtb use, as another example.
I will admit that the solar discussion is a detour but it illustrates how someone can suggest a need for a solution based on something outside the activity at hand. In the touring section we talk about touring yet many of the suggestions about hydraulic brakes are coming from downhill technical mtb use, as another example.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 11-17-18 at 09:34 PM.
#121
Senior Member
No it doesn't. You just need to htfu and stop letting unfounded anxiety guide your decision making.
Look, if you want to argue you like hydraulics, fine. No problem, fill yer boots. It's a lot like paint colour. However, if you want to argue you "need" them for touring because those other brakes aren't good enough I call B.S.
But the sentiment is not unique - many people who engage in outdoor pursuits are at times unsure of their abilities and seek an equipment solution as a buffer against that fear. The solution is not to encourage the irrational need for such gear but rather the acquisition of some skill.
In another recent thread someone suggested a Chris King headset and BB's were sort of a minimum for all season touring. Guess what, I call B.S. on that too.
There is a big difference between want and actual need.
Look, if you want to argue you like hydraulics, fine. No problem, fill yer boots. It's a lot like paint colour. However, if you want to argue you "need" them for touring because those other brakes aren't good enough I call B.S.
But the sentiment is not unique - many people who engage in outdoor pursuits are at times unsure of their abilities and seek an equipment solution as a buffer against that fear. The solution is not to encourage the irrational need for such gear but rather the acquisition of some skill.
In another recent thread someone suggested a Chris King headset and BB's were sort of a minimum for all season touring. Guess what, I call B.S. on that too.
There is a big difference between want and actual need.
Jesus christ this thread just went to a whole new level of garbage fire.
I agree about the CK headset not being basic need these days. That’s just silly. It would also be silly to say that of disk brakes. That doesn’t mean someone is anxious, afraid, and trying to compensate for lack of skill by enjoying nice equipment. Maybe you should work on your lack of skill and stop relying on your fancy cantilevers. People got along just fine in all sorts of weather with rear coaster brakes.
I purpose we aggressively talk about leather seats next!
Last edited by 3speed; 11-18-18 at 05:08 PM.
#122
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No I did not. I own a bike with disc brakes.
I said there is a difference between needing and wanting. The OP wants to do a simple tour and asked about disc brakes. Now it seems Hydraulic disc brakes are required for "safety" sake. I disagree.
My position is that rim or disc will suffice. Even HDiscs if money is no object - why not.
If you want HD that's fine. But to say you need HD for simple touring safely I think that's a worry not founded in reality.
That is all.
I said there is a difference between needing and wanting. The OP wants to do a simple tour and asked about disc brakes. Now it seems Hydraulic disc brakes are required for "safety" sake. I disagree.
My position is that rim or disc will suffice. Even HDiscs if money is no object - why not.
If you want HD that's fine. But to say you need HD for simple touring safely I think that's a worry not founded in reality.
That is all.
Last edited by Happy Feet; 11-17-18 at 09:47 PM.
#123
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