MarcusT

An old topic, I know, but the winter sales are starting and it might be time to get my retirement bike. (no, not for a long time still)
I searched the old threads and they did not seem to offer enough for a decision
Would like your input on which bike you prefer.
No need to worry about color, saddle or pedals. Brakes are not deal makers or breakers either.
Which do you like and why?
Of course objective opinions are appreciated, but bikes are like our children...
It is difficult for me to test ride them as the nearest dealer is 5 hrs away.
Just to give a little indicator. I converted my MTB to touring and find it comfortable but it is twitchy with a full load. I am trying to lose that. Also want 28" (700c) tires, instead of the 26ers.
Thanks in advance

fietsbob

QPB owns & sent off designs for both brands.. To be made in same [MaxWay TW] Factory..

I see people touring on both.. some end their trans continental US tours here..

As a place people tour flying in riding out or arriving after riding,
or through following the pacific coast,
And the business model of QBP is prepaid before shipping,
Our local has None on the floor ..
but will order them on demand..

Like GMC or Chevy pickups? (Ok, less applicable in Italy)

(remember bikes use interchangeable parts , made by other companies,
you don't have to have it as it came out of the box.)



on to the A vs B I got one or the other, anecdote replies ..



..

saddlesores

get both?

seeker333

You should probably be comparing the Salsa Marrakesh to Surly Disc Trucker as LHT is a rim-braked bike.

Are you considering the drop-bar Marrakesh or flat-bar Marrakesh? Are you buying a Complete Bike or a frameset and then building yourself?

Don't expect 700c wheels to be a big advantage over 26" - they don't handle any better loaded, actually may be worse. I went this route years ago and wish I had stuck with 26" wheeled bike.

Do you have any intentions to use SS drive or an internal gear hub? This is the only plain advantage of the swinging-dropout Marrakesh, and if you're going with derailleur drivetrain then it is a disadvantage WRT rack choice and fitting.

mstateglfr 

Between those 2 specific bikes, I would want an lht as it has more universal components and add ons.

MarcusT

Not sure what you mean.
It seems that frame-wise, they are pretty close.
Component-wise they are almost identical.
Can you elaborate?

MarcusT

If that is your solution for everything, can I come live with you?

MarcusT

Looking at the flat bar complete bike Marrakesh or build the LHT. Standard parts.
Being in Europe, 700c tires are easier to come by. Of 3 bike shops in my area , only one carries 26" road tires and they are none too good. But that is neither here nor there

In the end the LHT build-up might cost a few hundred less, but this is not in my consideration

J.Higgins 

I would get the Marrakesh for two reasons. Disc brakes and a kickstand plate.

BigAura

Marrakesh it has discs & a nice old song

saddlesores

go with the LHT. it's a proven design. has curved forks.
....and a better song.

indyfabz

I spent a week in Marrakesh back in '85 and saw a couple of dozen Dead shows during my life.

I may be mistaken, but I thought I read somewhere that the rear rack is the only one that will fit on the Marrakesh. That would be a deal breaker for me.

Here is a review that ran in Adventure Cyclist when the model was introduced:

https://www.adventurecycling.org/adv...lsa-marrakesh/

Sounds like overkill if you are not going to carry heavy loads.

cyccommute 

5kdad

I had to double check the author of this post, as it sounded exactly like my situation. Thought maybe I'd forgotten that I'd posted it!
I'm in the same dilemma. Except, my LBS has the Marrakesh bikes in stock. They have a 2018 model, in my frame size, discounted $300. I'm beginning semi-retirement next month, and hope to do an extended bike tour next summer.
Informative info in this thread.

GamblerGORD53

Neither.
Find a euro bike.

seeker333

Salsa appears to have discontinued the flat bar Marrakesh as of 2017 model - only the drop bar Marrakesh is now sold and will continue into 2019. In USA presently there are only 3-4 each of sizes Medium and Large Marrakesh flat bar bikes available (and no framesets), on sale at reduced price. I cannot determine availability in your location, so you should verify you can still actually purchase a flat-bar Marrakesh bicycle in desired size before further consideration.

As I mentioned in post #4 , the singular advantage of Marrakesh is swinging dropouts for chain tensioning required for use with an internal gear hub (IGH, like Rohloff). While an advantage for IGH, these dropouts are a disadvantage for far more common derailleur drivetrains as they interfere with rack mounting. Marrakesh's Alternator dropouts force you to mount rack at the dropout pivot bolt located ~8cm above the axle, resulting in an odd-looking, high-center-of-gravity load using any standard height rack. This situation may limit your rack choice to Salsa's reduced-height Alternator rack, made specifically for Alternator dropouts' high mount point, to keep rack deck level and bags and load at normal height.

If you are content with a derailleur drivetrain, then perhaps you should look closer at a LHT, since it will accept most any rear rack (Tubus) and are more widely available at lower cost (based on USA pricing), as Complete Bicycle and frameset.

If you like the LHT but may want disc brakes, then take a look at the geometrically-identical Disc Trucker (DT).

Regardless of bike choice, it should be one which is relatively comfortable for the long days required of loaded touring.

DT's dropouts locate a rack 3cm above axle. On my 700c DT is a 26" Tubus Cargo Classic rack (left over from a 26" LHT build) mounted to the lower boss, and with full VO Al 55mm Zeppelin fenders spaced for the maximum 42mm tire plus ~1cm air gap, the rack clears the fender with a 3-4mm gap at closest point. The 26" rack lowers deck height only 1cm versus the 700c rack, and it happens to be a perfect fit for a 700c DT.

LHT's dropouts locate rack/fender bosses at approximately the same position relative to axle as the DT (maybe 5mm lower, but can't tell for certain without one to measure).

Either DT or LHT are preferable to the Marrakesh's "8cm boss" location WRT fitting a rack. Plus you don't have to worry about Trucker's vertical steel dropouts slipping or breaking, then requiring proprietary, somewhat expensive parts to repair, which at times are unavailable for purchase and subject to discontinued production (Alternator dropouts).

MarcusT

Unfortunately, it seems here in Europe, they only sell LHT frames (disc trucker too). I have built a number of bikes from frame, but that was when components were a limited and simpler.
I'll take a look at a build up and spend several hours making sure compatibility is not an issue.

Thanks for the input, it was a real help

seeker333

I built a 26" LHT and 700c DT from framesets, and still own the DT. I transferred several parts from the LHT to the DT, then sold the LHT frameset. Both LHT and DT were built for about half the price of the "Complete" bicycle versions available in USA. They are fairly easy to build and do not require unusual, costly components for completion.

If you intend to build a LHT/DT with flat bar you will likely need a long stem, since these frames are sized for drop bar configuration.

MarcusT

I decided to build up with the LHT frame. It was quite the challenge getting the components together. In the sense that I had to order from 3 different vendors to get a group.
Let's hope for the best. Can't wait to complete it and load it up.

Cheers

J.Higgins 

Sounds great, Marcus. Be sure to post us a pic or two!

capper66

MarcusT

So the build has begun and I have already learned some important lessons:
1- "Fits most..." means it will fit everybody's except mine.
2-"Cables included", means maybe
3-Some online stores sell spokes as individual and others in bags of 20, but they do not say which.
4- Delivery companies have changed their policy and will no longer leave parcels at the house. They must have someone sign for it or go to the depot and pick it up (1/2 hr drive).
5-The racks I want, cost more than twice as much as the racks that are good enough

The adventure continues!
Cheers

ColonelSanders

Hah, keep us updated.

MarcusT

The bike is complete. I will have pics soon.
It went a lot quicker than intended. Once I start a bike project, I cannot seem to stop.
Working on bikes is pretty much the only thing that will have me lose track of time. Sometimes, I'll have to turn on the stove timer to remind me it's time for dinner.
Winter months are when I'll get a fixer bike or offer to do full tune ups for friends. Even if they are WalMart bikes.
Next post, I'll give my impressions of the LHT frame with what I like and not

MarcusT

Any suggestions?
Finished assembly, I like a lot of things about the LHT frame, but a couple of things that I do not like.
First is the down tube lever mounts. Considering that 10% of riders might still use these shift levers, 90% do not. If Surly does not want to change the design, at least include some cable stoppers with the frame.
The often mentioned air pump nipple that could hold one if, you happen to have a pump from the 70s
And the most obtrusive is the dropouts. The tubes (fork and rear) leading to the dropouts do not taper at all, instead they cut out the tube and place a reinforcement at the end of the tube .
With racks and fenders, the quick release lever on the wheel has practically no space. I have found 1 position , but even that one is not perfect.
Anyone have a solution for this?
Oh, and one more thing: The foam wrapping they use to package the individual tubing actually scratches the surface of the finish

Cheers