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Help with bike shop or touring drivetrain

Old 12-24-18, 12:02 PM
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megaclyde
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Help with bike shop or touring drivetrain

All,
I recently purchased a Breezer Doppler Pro that came with new tiagra STI shifters and a 48/32 crank with an 11-34 cassette in the rear. I'd like to put some lower gears on the bike for carrying heavy loads (you know, like my beer gut) and because this bike will be for mellow, relaxing and eventually looong rides. I already have a Kona Sutra LTD for when I feel the need to run the newfanglest drivetrain on my trip to starbucks. I'm most intrigued by running a triple up front with bar end shifters. When I went to my LBS to discuss this option all they were interested in was telling me why triples suck and nobody wants them anymore and 1X is the way to go ... even after I explained I already had the Sutra. They had nil advice on what parts would work together optimally but instead told me I could source parts on my own and they'd install them. Seriously... they said that. So help me out here as I weigh my options. I want to use parts that work together as designed and don't require any "problem solver" additions.
1. I can Swap out my front 48/32 for a FSA Modular 46/30 and attain a modest reduction in gearing with a simple part change.
2. Somebody here can tell me a great set of AVAILABLE parts in 3X9 or 3X10 (I'd prefer 9) that will work with bar end shifters. I've searched like crazy on here but most of the info I've come across lists a crank or derailer that isn't available anymore. At lest the online shops are sold out. Is 9 speed that close to dying?
3. Can you suggest a bike shop in the greater Atlanta/North GA area that actually has an interest in specing/assembling a touring drivetrain that doesn't think triples are the devil? The two shops I went to didn't know that my new Tiagra shifters weren't compatible with 10 speed Mountain components. :-(
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Old 12-24-18, 02:07 PM
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Shimano and Sram generally stopped making triple (mountain) cranksets a year ago, so the supply is very limited. You may have to resort to a boutique maker for a triple crank. Sugino still makes the XD600, which is 9s compatible, but you'll also need a square taper BB which is equally rare. The XD600 comes with a 26t granny ring but it can be swapped for a 24t Sugino ring (minimum size which will fit 74mm BCD). This one is the prettier version which already has 24t ring, and it's cheaper than XD600+24t ring. Theses cranks will work with Shimano 9s MTB derailleurs. They'll also work with 9s Shimano brifters and bar end shifters.

Microshift makes both 3x9 brifters and bar end shifters (BS-T09 is index/friction capable) which work well for half the cost of Shimano versions, and they are easier to find. Sold by QBP-affiliated LBS. This is a cheap clone of a Microshift 3x9 brifter.

Shimano 9s components were replaced by 10s about 8-10 years ago, although some components are still available. Euro shops may have parts that are unavailable in USA. Good luck.
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Old 12-24-18, 02:18 PM
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Craigslist?
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Old 12-24-18, 02:22 PM
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Originally Posted by seeker333 View Post
Sugino still makes the XD600, which is 9s compatible, but you'll also need a square taper BB which is equally rare. .
Shimano BB UN-55 on the "low" side (it'll probably last you 5 years):
https://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-UN55-Bottom-Bracket
https://www.cambriabike.com/products/shimano-un55-square-taper-bottom-bracket

On
the high side you have the SKF -- I'm waiting until my Shimano BB wears out to install one:
https://www.compasscycle.com/shop/co...-square-taper/
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Old 12-24-18, 02:25 PM
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deore still has the 10 speed 48/36/26 and deore 10 spd front and rear derailleurs, and there are still 10 spd bar end shifters (although I imagine it would be pruduent to make sure which rd they work with--cable pull wise a la ten speed tiagra cable pull not working with 10 spd mtn rd's.

but then, essentially you are replicating the sutra no? Is it worth the time and money?
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Old 12-24-18, 02:28 PM
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
Shimano BB UN-55 on the "low" side (it'll probably last you 5 years):
https://www.jensonusa.com/Shimano-UN55-Bottom-Bracket
https://www.cambriabike.com/products/shimano-un55-square-taper-bottom-bracket

On
the high side you have the SKF -- I'm waiting until my Shimano BB wears out to install one:
https://www.compasscycle.com/shop/co...-square-taper/
in my experience a UN-55 can last and last and last. I've had between 15 and 20,000kms out of a similar level square taper, and replaced it with a un55 years ago, they are a very well made bb.
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Old 12-24-18, 02:42 PM
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Originally Posted by pdlamb View Post
..On the high side you have the SKF -- I'm waiting until my Shimano BB wears out to install one:
https://www.compasscycle.com/shop/co...-square-taper/
I have one of these, bought it the year they came out. Generally they don't seem to work - you can't install without bearings binding. SKF discovered their error immediately and withdrew them from market the one and only year they were sold. I suspect Compass bought out their inventory, and 10 years later they still haven't unloaded these lemons.

I will gladly sell you mine for half of what Compass charges.
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Old 12-24-18, 05:24 PM
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microshift still makes 9-speed drives.


https://www.microshift.com/en/
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Old 12-24-18, 05:33 PM
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With your current gearing, you're already under 1:1 in the lowest gear. Ho much lower do you really need to go? Are you planning on fully loaded touring with steep grades?
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Old 12-24-18, 06:16 PM
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
deore still has the 10 speed 48/36/26 and deore 10 spd front and rear derailleurs, and there are still 10 spd bar end shifters (although I imagine it would be pruduent to make sure which rd they work with--cable pull wise a la ten speed tiagra cable pull not working with 10 spd mtn rd's.

but then, essentially you are replicating the sutra no? Is it worth the time and money?
My Sutra is the LTD. It's the model with 1X Sram. What I'm actually going for with this Breezer is a drivetrain similar to what the standard Sutra runs.
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Old 12-24-18, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by nesteel View Post
With your current gearing, you're already under 1:1 in the lowest gear. Ho much lower do you really need to go? Are you planning on fully loaded touring with steep grades?
<br /><br />I was thinking more along the lines of gear inches. I was trying to get to 20" or so in low gear. If I switch to a 46/30 up front and a 36 tooth in the rear I can get close at 21.7 inches with a double. To really get down there it looks like I'll need a triple. I weigh 300 lbs so technically my bike is always "fully loaded." My goal is eventually to be down at 230lbs and I'd like to take 30 lbs of junk with me on multi day rides in the north Georgia mountains. So I'm looking to get the bike ready for lots of hills with a combined rider and gear weight of 260 lbs.

Last edited by megaclyde; 12-24-18 at 06:24 PM.
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Old 12-24-18, 06:26 PM
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Thank you everyone for the replies. It looks like I really need to focus my search on 10 speed. Now Ii just need to find out what deore cranks, derailers and microshift shifters to buy.
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Old 12-24-18, 06:55 PM
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I'm going to be converting a Breezer Radar to triple crank + bar ends, so I've researched this a bit. In my case I'll be staying with the Radar's 9 speed, but I think there's not much point in you replacing your 10 speed RD and cassette (it wouldn't be hard, just more parts and work).

I think this will work for you:

Shimano Deore M610 10 Speed Triple Crankset 48/36/26 - It's discontinued but you can still find them new on ebay.

Microshift BS-M10 bar end shifters - readily available

Any mountain triple FD for 10 speed that fits your bike - lots of options - your existing FD might even work.

Tektro RL340 Brake Levers - you could use your existing brifters but shifter part would be useless.

New shift cables.

This would be relatively easy job. If you're just slightly mechanically capable you could do it. The most demanding part would be rewrapping the handlebars, I think.

Last edited by tyrion; 12-24-18 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 12-24-18, 09:11 PM
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I am shocked, shocked by the suggestions here!

OP PM me for details.

You have a few options for 9 speed triples.

1) 9 Speed tiagra sti Re very reliable. You can buy bikes on bikeisland.com that contain the entire drive train for $300.

Try this one
I know its not what you mentioned but it works flawlessly on my fuji touring.

2) You can build up your own 3 x 9 drive train from planet cyclerly. The hollowtech triple is excellent as its a 2 piece see here

Last edited by raria; 12-24-18 at 09:16 PM.
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Old 12-24-18, 10:37 PM
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Mega, didn't cotton onto the 1x of the Sutra.

Re gear inches and looking at 20 as a low. Absolutely, and if you end up with lower, that's even better. No matter what folks say, there is no downside to low gearing. You don't need it, shift up, easy.
As you say, you are one big boy, so getting lower than 20 is an excellent idea and had no downside. I'm a skinny little bugger, and having a bike that has 17 g.i. has been appreciated by me so much I can't tell you, on touring trips in hilly areas. When I don't need to use 1st or second gear, I don't.
Good luck on this project. You'll be happy with the results.
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Old 12-24-18, 11:13 PM
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Originally Posted by raria View Post
OP PM me for details.

You have a few options for 9 speed triples.
Why switch to 9 speed? He already has a 10 speed. What will he gain by replacing his RD, cassette, and chain?

It looks to me like there's little price or availability advantages to 9 speed at this point. I do understand 9 speed road and mountain drivetrains have more interoperability than 10+ speed stuff - but is that important?
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Old 12-25-18, 12:35 AM
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out of the box

BTW, once you buy your triple crank , you can change the 3rd chain ring smaller tooth count, than what the factory supplied..

with a 74mm 5 bolt circle that was from 30 to 24t for me.. 4 bolt may take smaller , 22t?







.....





...

Last edited by fietsbob; 12-25-18 at 10:49 AM.
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Old 12-25-18, 09:00 AM
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Originally Posted by tyrion View Post
Why switch to 9 speed? He already has a 10 speed. What will he gain by replacing his RD, cassette, and chain?

It looks to me like there's little price or availability advantages to 9 speed at this point. I do understand 9 speed road and mountain drivetrains have more interoperability than 10+ speed stuff - but is that important?
Tyrion,
I had originally mentioned going to 9 speed. My current RD is only rated at a 32 tooth cassette when used with a triple in the front. It can run a 34 and some people get away with a 36 with a double from what I've seen in youtube videos. Whatever swap I do on the breezer will include a new rear cassette and RD just to easily run a 36 in the rear. I actually like this drivetrain a lot as is, just not for touring, so if I get new components for this Breezer I'll swap all of this 10 speed tiagra over to my Marin Nicasio that currently runs claris. It's actually perfect for that bike and how I use it. Work is 14 miles so I'm not yet up to commuting both ways. Some days my wife drops me off in the morning with a bike and I ride home. I think the Nicasio with this Tiagra 10 speed would be a beautiful fast commuter for that purpose. I hate Leaving the Sutra out on a bike rack all day. Also, my brother rides the Nicasio on rides with us when he visits from FL. That may include some light gravel, a road ride or whatever... I think 48/32 with an 11-34 casette and some 700X38 tires is about perfect for how that bike gets used. He's a marathon runner so I'd never want to loan him anything faster to ride anyway. :-)
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Old 12-25-18, 11:30 AM
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other side of the country

3. Can you suggest a bike shop in the greater Atlanta/North GA area
Out here on the Oregon Coast, the bike shop sees a lot of bike tourists .. during the dryer summer months..

but is a long ways from where you are , now.. But, we box & ship bikes back East , for riders crossing the continent..


happy new year..








.....

Last edited by fietsbob; 12-27-18 at 11:11 AM.
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Old 12-25-18, 05:50 PM
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OK, here's what I came up with. Any reason this stuff won't work together?

Sugino XD600 Triple Cranksets 175mm 26-36-46

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Old 12-26-18, 09:27 AM
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I have and like the following

IRD triple crankset, 110bcd 48-36-24t. https://www.interlocracing.com/crank-arms-chainrings/ird-defiant-touring-triple-crank
​​​​​​

Deore 9 speed RD (34T max) https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/...h/rp-prod40543

Dura Ace or Ultegra 9 speed barcons. https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/...t/rp-prod13648

The shop tech is correct, 3x is not trendy. It works as well as 1x, however.
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Old 12-26-18, 09:39 AM
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The RD has a top capacity of 34T, so the cassette you picked would be problematic. If you were to go with the IRD crannkset I mentioned above you would have 24T for the small ring instead of Sugino's 26T. Also, I prefer IRD (QB-55), Phil Wood or SKF bottom brackets over the UN55. And make sure whichever bb you purchase that you get the correct spindle length.
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Old 12-26-18, 11:14 AM
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My Mazama is a 3x10s Deore setup with the Microshift barends. Works great. Not the easiest to find new Deore 3x front cranks in all the sizes they were initially offered in, but there are still some out there.

Originally Posted by seeker333 View Post
Sugino still makes the XD600, which is 9s compatible, but you'll also need a square taper BB which is equally rare.
New bikes are still made with the square taper, new BB are all over the place, so long as you aren't looking at some wonky new size/length.
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Old 12-26-18, 11:28 AM
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re 9 spd vs 10. I cant speak really from experience, but for a heavy guy, would 9 spd be a bit stronger than 10? I am going only from what a friend has said that he noticed more people with broken chains when 10 replaced 9--but that was a long tme ago now.
The only reason I bring it up is because of mega being way stronger and putting waaaay more force into a chain than someone like me who weighs less than half of what he does.

that said, 10 is the new normal, and must be very reliable.
also, a 10 spd 11-36 has slightly smaller jumps overall compared to a 9 spd 11-34. Ive toured a lot on a 9spd 11-34 and my wifes bike with its 10 spd 11-36 is very attractive, and is clearly what I would use if I were to set up a 10 spd touring bike.
That said, Ive spent months touring on a 9 spd 11-34 and the jumps are fine, its just that the 10 spd has slightly smaller jumps , which when you've ridden a lot, its nice to have.

re bb , yes you will have to have the spindle length properly determined by a knowledgable mechanic if you go this route, with the given crankset in hand, and also to make sure that the frame will be fine with a triple for proper chainline--again, an experienced good mechanic knows all this stuff (but maybe not a young kid who has never ridden or setup triples)
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Old 12-26-18, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by revcp View Post
IRD triple crankset, 110bcd 48-36-24t. https://www.interlocracing.com/crank-arms-chainrings/ird-defiant-touring-triple-crank
​​​​​​

Deore 9 speed RD (34T max) https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/...h/rp-prod40543

Dura Ace or Ultegra 9 speed barcons. https://www.chainreactioncycles.com/...t/rp-prod13648

The shop tech is correct, 3x is not trendy. It works as well as 1x, however.
Thank you. Good stuff there. What's your opinion on this crankset vs. the IRD. It's a bit cheaper and looks very similar. https://velo-orange.com/collections/...kset-24x34x48t
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