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Old 02-18-19, 10:07 PM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by greatscott View Post
LOL! Yeah, I would like to see him try to hold food in one hand and shift with the other hand while riding with fully loaded front and rear panniers and handlebar bag on a touring bike, that would make for a very interesting YouTube video.
I will get you this video and prove my downtube shifting prowess!
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Old 02-18-19, 11:12 PM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
Mine in the photo with the downtube shifters came as a bare frame. I picked the parts.



I missed the Sage Green by one year. Mine was branded "Olive". Bike in the front (on the left) belongs to a bud. His is Sage. Mine on the right is a tad darker. You should be able to tell in this photo. He went with brifters, as most people have been doing for many years now.

What size tires are those? They look bigger than what Surly states will fit with fenders
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Old 02-18-19, 11:47 PM
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Donít think it matters. I built up a bunch of road frames with DT shifters. I started with DT shifters when I was young. I still like them. They are not that hard to use with practice. I find Campy DT friction shifters off eBay are cheap and work well. I admit it takes a little time to get used to shifting by feel. But I like being able to fine tune the derailleur. And having fewer parts and shorter cables.

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Old 02-19-19, 05:54 AM
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
New thread idea: Zombie apocalypse encounters.
Great idea. This is the western portal of one of the tunnels on Piketobike, which is an unofficial bike trail using an 8.5 mile stretch of abandoned Pennsylvania Turnpike. It was used as a filing scene for the post-apocalyptic film "The Road", starring Viggo Mortensen. The tunnel is over a mile long with a crown closer to the east portal, so when traveling west to east you literally cannot see the light at the end of the tunnel until you get closer to the east portal.

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Old 02-19-19, 07:28 AM
  #55  
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I loved The Road, great rom-com and highly recommended for a first date.

and my contribution to this whole mess
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Old 02-19-19, 09:11 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
I loved The Road, great rom-com and highly recommended for a first date.
Right up there with The Book of Eli.

This would be my transportation/housing of choice post-apocalypse.

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Old 02-19-19, 09:48 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by MarcusT View Post
What size tires are those? They look bigger than what Surly states will fit with fenders
26x2.0 Fit Fine! 26x2.1 i am running with now = no fenders.
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Old 02-19-19, 09:48 AM
  #58  
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Now we're getting somewhere!

A lovely little gas station between Calgary and Banff.

True, I was using brifters but I find them extremely handy for stirring impromptu fondues while shifting on the road.

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Old 02-19-19, 09:59 AM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
You kind of are claiming a performance advantage to downtube shifters. Saying the brifters are somehow “delicate” is a claim of better performance. I’ve crashed STI shifters into the ground...directly...without issues.


Much new tech comes from auto racing and bicycle racing. Like seat belts and STI road bike shifters. The #1 reason STI shifters came to be is because pro riders (who make a living racing) didn't want to telegraph to everyone around them that they were about to try a break away. Reaching for a downtube shifter tells everyone EXACTLY what you are up to, depending on the situation and which shifter you actually touch. It was a huge disadvantage to breaking away. So the STI was invented for "stealth" shifting and a "race advantage". Then the relatively complicated tech trickled down to even cheap road bikes.

I’ve had STI on a bike that have 25,000 miles on them without issue. The whole “brifters are going to leave you busted flat in Baton Rouge” is a red herring.
I agree, STI is dependable and durable. But lets you and I crash our bikes 100 times and see who is still shifting. Or leave our bikes out in the weather for a year straight (like a long bike tour) and see who will still be shifting. As i said WAY up thread. If you race and make money doing it, STI is mandatory. I don't believe that pro riders were having any trouble using downtube shifters, do you? And they have teams to keep all that stuff running smooth.

(Not that you and I will be crashing 100 times, but it only takes ONCE, and out in the middle of nowhere, that sucks).

Now with electric shifting, the stealth actuation AND the INSTANT, perfect shift, is an even bigger advantage for racers. I don't think I need electric shifting for a bike tour either.
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Old 02-19-19, 10:37 AM
  #60  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
...
STI is dependable and durable.
....
A friend of mine was getting ready to do his third cross USA coast to coast tour with ACA. About a month before time to leave his rear Shimano 9 speed brifter quit working. He could not find a new replacement, he considered taking one off another one of his bikes, then he asked me about bar end shifters because he knew that I used them for touring. I let him ride one of my bikes for several miles around town, up hills, downhills, etc. He then had a set of bar end shifters installed for his trip.

On his trip, one other had her rear brifter crap out too. A bike shop got it to work again for a few hundred miles before it crapped out again. She finished the ride with a three speed bike, shifting her triple crank was the only way she could shift.

The bar end shifters I put on my Lynskey two years ago were used on another bike before that, I now have 15 years of use on them. They still work great, although the chromed bolt shows a lot of rust. They could have done a better job of chrome plating.

I do not like friction shifting for the rear, but if the indexing breaks in my rear bar end, the shifter I have has the friction option as a backup contingency.

Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
...
I don't believe that pro riders were having any trouble using downtube shifters, do you? And they have teams to keep all that stuff running smooth.
....
The only pro that I knew of that used a down tube shifter by choice was Lance (whether or not you like him is another matter). In his early years of racing, he used a downtube shifter for the front derailleur, but used a brifter for the rear.
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Old 02-19-19, 11:11 AM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
The only pro that I knew of that used a down tube shifter by choice was Lance (whether or not you like him is another matter). In his early years of racing, he used a downtube shifter for the front derailleur, but used a brifter for the rear.
My best cycling bud, who races and wins, does same. And when I see his left hand reaching down for that danged front shifter I immediately suck in really tight to his back wheel because the sheet is about to get REAL. I bet my friend doesn't even know Lance did same.

Yeah, I have horror stories about other ppls shifters on tours. Also several friends who race and either wear them (STI) out or crash them, or somehow they get all gummed-up. They never seem to break training, only race day. Go figure. As the saying goes "You aren't winning if you aren't crashing several times a year". Pros get that stuff replaced for free and the new ones appear on their bikes like magic. I gotta listen to my race buds whine and complain about theirs.
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Old 02-19-19, 12:18 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Right up there with The Book of Eli.
Im fairly certain I already used this dumb joke for The Road on this forum at some point.

I found both the book and film of The Road to be very well done in an understated way that made it very scary. The Book of Eli I found to be just silly ulitimately, and I couldnt take it that seriously.

but there you go, another internet opinion, just like for those about shifting systems.....
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Old 02-19-19, 12:20 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
The only pro that I knew of that used a down tube shifter by choice was Lance (whether or not you like him is another matter). In his early years of racing, he used a downtube shifter for the front derailleur, but used a brifter for the rear.
Marco Pantani also did at one point, and look what happened to him.
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Old 02-19-19, 12:22 PM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
Marco Pantani also did at one point, and look what happened to him.
chuckle.

and the sociopath did it to save weight guys, not for any other reason.
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Old 02-19-19, 08:01 PM
  #65  
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
Much new tech comes from auto racing and bicycle racing. Like seat belts and STI road bike shifters. The #1 reason STI shifters came to be is because pro riders (who make a living racing) didn't want to telegraph to everyone around them that they were about to try a break away. Reaching for a downtube shifter tells everyone EXACTLY what you are up to, depending on the situation and which shifter you actually touch. It was a huge disadvantage to breaking away. So the STI was invented for "stealth" shifting and a "race advantage". Then the relatively complicated tech trickled down to even cheap road bikes.
That may be one reason but a better reason is that the shifters are at your fingertips where you can shift more easily and more often. Reaching down to shift is an awkward way to shift.

I agree, STI is dependable and durable. But lets you and I crash our bikes 100 times and see who is still shifting. Or leave our bikes out in the weather for a year straight (like a long bike tour) and see who will still be shifting. As i said WAY up thread. If you race and make money doing it, STI is mandatory. I don't believe that pro riders were having any trouble using downtube shifters, do you? And they have teams to keep all that stuff running smooth.

(Not that you and I will be crashing 100 times, but it only takes ONCE, and out in the middle of nowhere, that sucks).

Now with electric shifting, the stealth actuation AND the INSTANT, perfect shift, is an even bigger advantage for racers. I don't think I need electric shifting for a bike tour either.
Most people arenít going to spend a year straight touring. A few might but most arenít. That said, in 25,000 miles my commuter bike has spent more time outside than even a trip around the world would endure. My touring bike also has 10,000 miles on the shifters...again, outside...and Iím not too concerned about them failing me anytime soon.

As for the ďit only takes ONCEĒ, that can be applied to any number of things on a bicycle. Do you carry parts for every possible scenario? Carry a spare bike? Or do you just trust to fate once in a while?

I canít tell you the number of times things have gone wrong with a tour because, frankly, nothing has gone wrong on tour. It doesnít mean it canít happen but itís a bridge Iíll deal with when I come to it. Otherwise, I could just stay at home and worry that the delicate parts on my bicycles wonít stand up to the elements.
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Old 02-19-19, 08:16 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
I do not like friction shifting for the rear, but if the indexing breaks in my rear bar end, the shifter I have has the friction option as a backup contingency.
Nearly everyone has a friend or a friend of a friend or a friend of your Aunt Ednaís second cousinís hairdresserís housekeeperís daughterís grandchild failure of a component on tour. We just love horror stories. But how many of those same friends or friend of friends or AESCHHDGs have completed tours without any incidences at all? We donít hear about the success stories, now do we?

How many times have you actually used the friction option? Iíve been touring for 40 years and touring with index shifting for nearly 25 years and never had to convert to friction during any part of that quarter decade. Even on mountain bikes where the possibility of damage could neccessitate conversion to friction. Itís just not something that has come up. If the bike is index shifting poorly, I fix it rather then depend on a band-aid.

To rectify that, Iím here to tell you that all my tours have be snooze fests when it comes to derailer problems. Nothing has ever happened to the system whether it is thumbshifter, brifters or under bar mountain bike shifters. Nothing has happened the (few) times Iíve ridden with someone else. Itís been completely boring shifter-wise. I suspect most peopleís experience is in the same vein.

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Old 02-19-19, 09:23 PM
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You know, we don't see eye to eye often, but your post cyccommute does go a fair way to explain things about how experienced riders think.

Usually, the most significant issue is lack of suitable servicing, including adjustment, and lubrication and analysis of cables and their covers. My biggest problems have been either broken cable in the gear shifter, and a broken rear wheel shaft that happened prior to the start of a 400km randonnee when a wind gust blew over the bike while it was standing still and made the line-up of derailleur and gears out of line.

Ironically, in the sense of this thread, my Fuji Touring which is now 15 years old and done over 60,000km, still has the original and functioning (just) Shimano Tiagra brifters.

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Old 02-19-19, 10:10 PM
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this basically all comes down to bashing on retrod0uches which i don't think is very fair is it
we don't hurt anyone
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Old 02-20-19, 12:35 AM
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I would also agree that issues due to shifters is pretty rare given proper maintenance but there is nothing wrong with not complicating systems or with having sensible bailouts if it isn't a big inconvenience. In diving we sometimes talk about the KISS principle which is: Keep It Simple Stupid, and that has served me pretty well both there and cycling and philosophically I try to always approach remote setting solo pursuits that way.

Another thing we talk about is not seeking an equipment solution to a skills problem. In this case that can mean a couple of things. The first is that shifting gears on a bike while touring isn't so complicated that one needs a hi tech solution (want being different from need) and the second is that I feel I should have the skills needed to fix my systems in the field, should they fail, instead of relying on an equipment system like cell phones and credit cards to have someone else fix them for me. To me, saying I will not have a problem in the future because I have not had one in the past is a non starter. I have also not been mauled by a bear but that doesn't mean I don't take my bear spray into bear country when I go.

I like simple systems I can manipulate because part of the allure of getting away is to temporarily reclaim a more visceral and hands on feeling for the day to day components of my life. I like the fact that I can strip and assemble my bike from the ground up (except my road endurance bike). Other peoples mileage may vary of course. Part of the fun of joking in this thread is knowing how little it matters which shifter one chooses. And much of a certain outlook depends on the locale one is touring in. If help is not too onerous then accepting a "deal with it when it happens" approach is probably fine; I do much the same myself a lot of the time, but if help is 100's of Km's away or will cause someone else a hardship to attend then I feel some obligation to consider what I might do to mitigate that beforehand.

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Old 02-20-19, 05:04 AM
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Back on topic....

Always dispose of your zombie kills properly.


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Old 02-20-19, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
The #1 reason STI shifters came to be is because pro riders (who make a living racing) didn't want to telegraph to everyone around them that they were about to try a break away.
Not so. STI was just the latest (and first successful) attempt at shifter indexing. The best-known earlier example of indexed shifting was Shimano FFS, which incorporated the indexing into the rear derailleur and was introduced for use with the heaviest, cheapest derailleur bikes on the market.

By the time Shimano's engineers perfected the principles of STI, Shimano's marketing department had figured out that introducing STI with their most expensive group was a better strategy.

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Old 02-20-19, 06:31 AM
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Originally Posted by JoeyBike View Post
The #1 reason STI shifters came to be is because pro riders (who make a living racing) didn't want to telegraph to everyone around them that they were about to try a break away. Reaching for a downtube shifter tells everyone EXACTLY what you are up to, depending on the situation and which shifter you actually touch.
Far more important, STI allowed one to shift easily when running out of the saddle, both for climbing and sprinting and you didn't have to take either hand off the bar and brake when racing in tight quarters or on descents.
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Old 02-20-19, 06:48 AM
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Originally Posted by Trakhak View Post
Not so. STI was just the latest (and first successful) attempt at shifter indexing. The best-known earlier example is of indexed shifting was Shimano FFS, which incorporated the indexing into the rear derailleur and was introduced for use with the heaviest, cheapest derailleur bikes on the market.
My Shimano 600 (precursor to Ultegra, IIRC) on my Bianchi had what was called SIS index shifting. Downtube shifters. Worked pretty well.
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Old 02-20-19, 07:24 AM
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simpler is often better on tour. DT's with only 3 parts? even if one breaks, you can whittle a spare from a plastic spoon!


friction is perfect for 5-7 rear gears. less trouble mixing and matching drivetrain components, and more options of using whatever's on the shelf in kermit, texas. new proprietary "systems" won't work with other brands, often not with same mfg's other stuff.


loved the simple suntour friction thumbshifters for no-worry cycling. all i can find nowadays in sunrace/sturmey thumbies - friction front, 9s index rear.


replacing all my shimano trigger shifters, that have a habit of gumming up. sucks losing rear shifting in the mountains days from the nearest town.


oh, and here's some old stuff porn:
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Old 02-20-19, 07:54 AM
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Originally Posted by indyfabz View Post
My Shimano 600 (precursor to Ultegra, IIRC) on my Bianchi had what was called SIS index shifting. Downtube shifters. Worked pretty well.
SIS and STI incorporate the same fundamental shifting technology, as evidenced by their being interchangeably usable with the same rear derailleur, unlike FFS.
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