What do vegans think about using products from the exploitation of human beings?

Just like ebikes, why when veganism comes up can't the question at hand either be ignored or answered in a productive manner?

The guy asked for tips on what vegans eat on tour, not a discussion on the intricacies of the belief.

I always thought a vegan was just a vegetarian who also didn’t want to use other animal products. Never really gave it much thought. Now I find out it has to do with exploitation. Just trying to learn about the subject. Since when did any topic on BF stick to the exact question asked by the OP?

I’ve been a vegetarian for 45 years. These days, my wife and I are vegan at home but vegetarian when we travel. I add cheese and eggs to my diet when I tour by bicycle as it is just too much trouble for me to eat, otherwise. I don’t carry cooking gear so I rely on raw or packaged food or restaurants. Many restaurants in Europe (I’m currently in France) mark their menus to identify vegetarian and vegan meals, as well as those that are gluten free.

I could easily do without eggs (my Warmshowers host made a quiche for dinner last night) and cheese, though it is a nice addition to daily diet while riding, but surely not necessary. Both of these are as much preference and convenience. If I did all my own cooking, remaining vegan would not be a problem, but it isn’t something I want to subject the kind people who host on my trips to.

As for what I eat, Breakfast is fruit, bread and coffee. Bread, tomatoes, pesto sauce (available without cheese) potato chips, cookies, fruit, olives, and occasionally cheese I carry with me on the bike.. All but the cookies and cheese are vegan. Dinner, if I make it, is usually stir fried vegetables using spices I bring with me. All this is easily available in Europe. In other parts of the world or in small town USA, some items might be hard to get.

I feel like I need to point out that I'm generalizing here, and adding some obvious humor, but... People are generally vegan for the same reason as most vegetarians. They don't agree with eating animals. Vegetarians just don't have quite as strong of a belief as vegans. Basically, vegetarians are like vegans with less conviction. Vegetarians are to Lutherans as Vegans are to Catholics. ...Except vegans actually follow the rules the preach. *joke drum and symbol crash

If you truly want to understand, look into the way that animals, who are raised for our consumption, are treated. I'm not saying you'll be vegan afterward or anything, but you'll Easily understand why someone would refuse to support such actions.

Vegan is what someone eats, not why they eat it (or don't). They get there for different reasons. And yes, Lutherans have convictions.

OK, I’m totally confused now. I thought a vegan wouldn’t support horse racing, for example, because it exploits animals. Or even riding a horse. Nothing to do with what you eat. Is this incorrect?

It's so difficult to know the meanings of words. In the world in which I grew up, "unique" mean, literally, one of a kind. Respectable speakers of English now refer to something being "very unique." I could go on. I believe Vegan started as a dietary thing, and then it blobbed (and I mean that in a descriptive, not a pejorative sense).

Nice try but wrong. And also quite rude to suggest peoples beliefs have less conviction than others even if you pretend it was humour. You have made a commitment to neither so your observations are not warrented.

I don't want to get into a ethical debate on the subject here because, like religion or politics, I don't beleive they are ever productive on an open forum - at the same time I won't let someone run down my personal choices. What you said was simply insulting.

Yes, this is incorrect. Or, rather, this is not necessarily correct. Vegan is a dietary restriction in which you don't eat animals or animal by-products (like eggs and dairy products). Many vegans adopt this diet for reasons involving animal exploitation, so they likely would not be a fan of horse racing and similar uses of animals for non-food purposes. Many vegans adopt this diet for health reasons. They might be fine with horse racing, kicking puppies, or stomping on baby sea turtles as the crawl from their eggs to the ocean. Probably not all those things, but the fact that they don't eat animal products really doesn't carry any information about their morality or beliefs.

Likewise vegetarians don't eat meat, but might eat animal by-products. They might have multiple reasons, some involving animal exploitation, some not.

Correct.

I often encounter people who tell me they are vegetarian, for example, but eat fish, as it is not meat? I don't argue. They are doing it for perceived health reasons which is fine. Most do it for dietary reasons so will add or subtract some products depending on whether they see a value in doing so. Others do it for ethical reasons and have an additional level of reasoning beyond dietary. Others do it for spiritual/religious reasons. 7th day Adventists, Sikhs, Hindu, Jain, Buddhist; all have a vegetarian component. One can argue how come but it's about as productive as arguing why or which religion and those discussion belongs in the politics and religion sub forum.

Vegan almost always has a health/ethical basis and can be very hard to follow when out of ones normal comfort zone, hence the topic of this thread. But people still manage if they choose to. Sometimes they plan ahead, add occasional animal product to supplement, or modify activity. Depends. It can be a tough row to hoe during the learning curve.

Let's keep it on topic as for touring this is a pretty valid question. Debates about comparative value or validity can go elsewhere.

I agree with keeping it on topic in the realm of bike touring, but it helps to know what a vegan is in the first place. Sounds a lot like a vegetarian that doesn’t eat chicken, fish, eggs or milk, basically.

An easy way is:

Vegetarian - don't kill an animal to eat it.
Vegan - No animal or animal byproducts.

Ethically it's a complex question as one can debate whether beekeepers exploit or harm their bees, a farmer harms his cow by milking etc... I have my opinions but find arguing about that fruitless on open forums in the same way as it's pointless to debate the differences between varying religious observances. To the person who holds them they are valid. To others they may seem odd.

Really? I don’t think a vegetarian would eat an animal that died of natural causes. I think they don’t eat meat, regardless of its origin.

Ok. We'll take road kill and carrion off the menu. Sort of thought that was self explanatory.

I said kill, not died, but do you know a lot of people going around eating animals that have died of natural causes regardless?

Its literally in your name. While not plastered everywhere, its certainly plastered all over here.


I completely understand your actual point, i just chuckled when I read the bold part.

you dont eat grains, beans, dairy, sugar, processed oil, anything with gluten, and rarely each corn or rice products.

So...its strictly meat, fruits, and veggies that are mostly unseasoned?

Iowa has a well stocked selection of fruits and veggies all across the state. We now even have grocery stores with them thar new fangled cooling machines to keep the produce fresh for longer.

For people: Elimination of animal products from the diet can lower risk of cardiovascular diseases and some forms of cancer, and the lower on the food chain you eat, the less concentration of pesticides and toxins. Elimination of factory farms might help slow climate change and reduce the spread of antibiotic resistance, as well as lessen the amount of raw sewerage dumped into water supplies.

For animals: Less torture and exploitation.

PS: I am not vegan. But I do try to eat low on the food chain.

Must keep the ice men busy. :D

Even pointing out that I'm joking doesn't matter. *sigh* Does it make you feel better that my "street cred" is that I'm born and raised Lutheran and my best friend of ~18yrs has been vegan for ~15 of those years? I'm working toward eating more responsibly myself and have the goal of eating a "naturalist" diet and only eating meat that I hunt or fish myself. And at least in the church I grew up in, Lutherans tend to be more on the loving and forgiving side, rather than the fire and you're going to hell side of things. A "lighter, more forgiving" and some might see it as less conviction. And of course there are tons of Catholics everywhere who practice what they preach.

Obviously if Alan wanted a serious, in depth, all inclusive answer to the differences between vegan and vegetarianism, he would just use his internet connection to instantly look up and educate himself on the topic. I gave him lighthearted answer for a lighthearted question. Sorry if I actually offended you.

According to veganbikes, “Veganism is about not exploiting animals no matter who they are.” Other people seem to think it’s defined by what you eat. If there is no real definition of the term, then saying you are a “vegan” is kind of meaningless or it means different things to different people. I have no plans to become a vegan, whatever it is.

Excellent point (Bold & color added for emphasis)

Wikipedia to the rescue:

The term "vegan" doesn't lose all meaning just because not all people define it the same way. Just ask a bike touring question, wait for some answers to come in, and then mention your bike has an electric motor, and you'll see that "bike touring" means different things to different people. And yet there remain commonalities.

The OP asked about eating. From that we can infer that, whatever else they might be, they are likely, also, a dietary vegan. That's all you really need to know to answer their question. You don't need to know if their saddle is leather or how they feel about the Kentucky Derby.

I might just swear off the meat, fish, AND veggies, and become a peanutbutterarian. 😁 Or maybe not, you still need veggies sometimes, for when you get tired of bread or crackers, to put that peanut butter on. 🤔😉