Ortlieb 40 or 70 liters?
 

For folks that are touring full time, year round, and using Ortlieb's rear panniers...are you using the 40 liter panniers (combined total for 2 panniers) or are you using Back Roller Pro Classic or the Back Roller Pro Plus? Those last two are both the 70 Liter bags.

Is 70 liter bags just way too big and obnoxious? I haven't seen them up close being utilized so I don't know what to expect with them.

I do not tour full time, but I just got home from a 5 week tour.

For a decade I have been using the Ortlieb 40 liter rear and 25 liter front Ortliebs. Sometimes I added the 31 liter duffle on top in back.

But several years ago I bought a pair of Carradry rear panniers, they were rated at 50 something liters. I do not recall the rating but I think they are about 50 to 52 liters which is much smaller than the rating was. I used them on my most recent trip instead of my Ortliebs to see how they work. Plus they did lower my center of gravity a bit. That larger volume meant that I could put a lot less volume on top of the rack, instead of the 31 liter duffle, I had a dry bag that varied in size from maybe about 8 to about 20 liters depending on how recently I was at the grocery store.

I can't possibly imagine needing 70 liters. But if you were going across a desert and needed to carry lots of both food and water, then maybe you have a specific need. At times I have carried up to two and a half weeks of food, but I never needed to carry more than 5 liters of water.

In the photo I have about two and a half weeks of food on the bike with my 40 liter Ortliebs, 25 liter front Ortliebs, the 31 liter Ortlieb duffel (rack pack?) and an extra blue drybag for over flow food.

If you decide to get the 70 liter bags, you will need a very stout bike to carry that much of a load without handling like a wet noodle. The bike in the photo is rated to carry up to 60 kg not counting the weight of the rider, it could handle the load you are talking about but not many other bikes could do it.

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...bc1a93c5fb.jpg

Panniers kind of follow gas laws. Any gas that in introduced into a space will fill the space. For touring cyclists, any bag will be filled to it's capacity as well. I guarantee that people who use a 70 L bag are going to carry 70L of stuff in them. The problem is that when a gas expands to fill the space, it doesn't' weight much. 70 L of pannier space is going to end up being a ton of crap. You probably only really need 1/4 of a ton of crap.

I also suspect that these are marketed towards tourist who haven't heard that the bike rides better with bags on both the rear and front nor do they know that loading the front bags with about 60% of the weight gives a better ride. With front and rear bags, I have about the same volume as the single 70L bags but it's split up better. Even then I try to cut down on the amount of stuff I carry as much as possible.

OK after seeing your pictures. I just honestly don't know and haven't seen them all full, up close, next to one another. I am not even sure I have ever seen a 70liter go past me. A picture says a thousand words, so thank you. Which also saves me quite a bit of money too because the 40Liter bags I can find at good prices. The 70liter bags are all premium prices for the most part right now.



Thank you. I often need to hear from folks like you who clearly know better. You sir are one of the reasons I had to start posting and asking questions. I know you and a few others intimately from your advice over the years. And in many ways, I can't honestly thank you enough for all your posts, effort, hard work, advice to others, your rebuttals, arguments, scientific evidence, the many times you were right, the many times I didn't agree with you or you were wrong, and mostly, for an insane amount of bicycle knowledge, and knowledge in general, being passed on to me and others over time. You are one of the folks I have learned the most from on the internet on biking in general, mechanical stuff, etc...and I have a lot of respect for you because of that. Thank you sir for all of that. You have actually helped me to learn to use critical thinking skills more over time too. I hope others have tipped their hat off to you in passing, and have taken the time out to thank you just the same. I personally think you are one of the best and most helpful folks/teachers on the internet when it comes to much of this stuff! You live in Denver so you're a neighbor too. I often wonder when I am going to identify you on a trail passing one day. I am sure we have passed each other many times in the 3D world to date for as much as we both ride and how long I have been lurking. Anyway, thank you for all that.


I will go with smaller ones now. So thanks. I was just looking at the Arkel 40, 45, and the Arkel GT54 too.

I'm not touring year round, but, if anything, I've found that the shorter the trip, the more gear I'm willing to carry. I like to think that if I were to go on an extended tour, I could pare down the gear a little more. Although the wild card in that is "year round" likely means doing some cold weather touring, and that always involves more gear.

I started out with 4, large (approx. 20 liter) panniers. Scaled my gear down to two, 20 liter Ortliebs (with other, random gear stashed other places on the bike). But I felt like I could get a more balanced load with 4 smaller panniers, rather than the 2 20 liter set. But, I ended up switching my front end to more of a bike-packing set up. Currently using two Front-Roller/Sports-Roller panniers on the back (12.5 liters each), a handlebar roll (15 liters), and a variety of other options should I need more storage, such as cargo cages on my forks, a frame bag, and the top of my rear rack. If I were to go back to a strictly pannier set-up, I'd go with 4 of the 12.5 panniers. If I were worried about having enough clothing/bedding for cold weather, I could see subbing in 2 20 liter bags. Having already gone away from having 4, 20 liter panniers, I have no desire to take 35 liter panniers.

Thanks for all that Rob. I actually don't want to cold weather tour at all. Like literally stay in shorts and tshirts all year kind of weather. Biking in sandals as much as possible :)

I put up another post here about that.

Try to work out the logistics in my mind now.

I am back to looking at these then:

Front: Ortlieb Sport-Roller Classic
Rear: Ortlieb Bike-Packer Classic

I can probably price match and pick them up for about $300.

$327 here as a complete set front and back: https://www.campfirecycling.com/prod...niers-required

Campfire is what used to be The Touring Store.

I disagree that everyone using 70 q panniers will fill them with junk, thus they will be heavy. I have 70 q panniers and just got back from 2 weeks in Colorado. For the bulk of the time they had a lot of extra room, but a trip to the grocery store and the fact that I like being able to put my cycling shoes in a pannier while walking with the bike was a huge plus. I actually against having panniers with only one compartment (sort of the same reason that I would not put all of my kitchen wares into one big box in my kitchen and have to dig for silverware, bowls plates etc...) I prefer to limit digging for stuff in my panniers. I don't think you need such waterproofing that your gear will stay dry even if submerged under 20 feet of water ( I am not familiar with such waterproofing needs with bicycle touring) Having many pockets outstrips the need for waterproofing by a long shot.

Why have 70 liters of capacity then? Ideally, panniers should small enough so that what you carry will fit in them precisely without a lot of extra room. If you have 70L bags and only fill them to 40 L, why carry the extra space for almost double the capacity? Why not just go with 40L bags? It takes a lot of discipline...usually earned over years of bike touring...to avoid filling the space you have with stuff that could make the ride easier, better, more comfortable, etc. I still end up mailing a lot of excess home when I tour because I just had to have X piece of equipment that I haven't used in several weeks.

As for pockets, I've been that route. Pockets are mostly useless. They are either too large or too small for the items I carry so they either don't get used or they are just a place to put the stuff that I'll eventually mail home. One large pocket is very useful but who just throws their stuff into that one large pocket? When I travel, I put items in stuff sacks or ziplock bags and everything is organized and has a place in that one large pocket. Stuff that I need while riding either goes in the handlebar bag or on top of the small bags because they don't shift much.

As for waterproofing, I'd rather have it then not. My wife and I got hit by a wall of water on the Tay Bridge outside of Dundee. The host at the bed and breakfast...back before "bed and breakfasts" became posh and was just what it says...didn't want us to use her drier so we had to hang soaking wet clothes all over her guest bedroom. I've since gotten caught in downpours and all day rains with waterproof Ortliebs and I rather like not having to dry everything out after a rain.

Ive seen the 70l Ortliebs in a store once, and I could see them being handy for cold weather touring where you might have more bulky stuff, though not heavy

but I tend to agree with others , that being so huge, one could have waaaay too much weight at the back.
I too have used a 31 litre rackpack, but with light stuff in it usually, and its nice to have the extra space for adding food and or putting lighter things in it, and putting heavier stuff like water, in the lower down panniers.

With the 70 Litre panniers, it would give you scope to take things that are bulky, but hopefully not that heavy.

I run 2 X 25 lt at the rear, and 2 X 15 lt at the front, even as I tour with a dog in a trailer, these panniers are not full, unless I am touring in the outback, then I will be carrying 30 lts of water, so need the space for that.

Well that's enough for me then if you and the pooch can get by!

I have been focused on about the same size you are talking about now, maybe a little smaller in 2 x 20, and then 2 x 15 on front. Front setup is still questionable. Still thinking about a Surly 8 or 24 pack rack instead (or maybe even both, and have tent and sleeping bag kind of thing on the top rack.

Thanks for all the input everyone...I have pretty much moved away from the idea of 70 Liter based on this thread.

I have a cheap steel flat top rack on the front, that carries a cheap rack top bag of at least 6 lt, as well. I use it instead of an Handle bar bag, for cost and space for my cables.. I got the bag for $7.00au from Ebay China., I also carry 2 chalk bags as feed bags attached at the top of the steering tube, plus a top tube bag. These 4 bags hold my maps, phone, batteries, some spares, snacks for dog, a small towel, a rain resistant pocho, snacks for me in the feed bags, mossie and fly protection, and a fly net. Their is still space left over, but these bags save me going into my panniers during the days ride. And add virtually no weight at all.

Picture?

I don't have any pic's of my bike, or set up as I am a bit dumb using a phone camera, or for that matter anything on a phone short of a making a call and answering it. Also I don't take pics, on the trip much, and when I do it is by a 35mm film camera, a bloody good Pentax, I bought a year before digitals came out, so want to get my moneys worth out of it. But I will develop and post a pic on here soon, of the bike on tour with the dog and trailer as well. I am not that up on technology. It took me a long time to learn to use a computer, and then they go and change the operating system, every bloody year.

Fair enough. Good luck to you in your travels.

Just an FYI..."I am not that up on technology."

If you are able to post on forums online, then you are more tech savvy than 95% of the world. So from another perspective, you are a one eyed king in a land of blind men.

If you struggle with anything with technology, youtube is your best friend. Just literally go to the search bar and type, "How do I use _________" or "How do I __________" and fill in the blank. Diligence and patience pays off if you can discern properly over time.

There is a lot of good advice on youtube but a lot of bad advice too. If I do not know something and if I go to you tube for an answer, I always watch at least three videos. That way if any of them contradict each other then I know that there is some questionable advice to be wary of.

A good way to sizing panniers is to first gather up all your touring gear, weighing it as you accumulate it. Get a cardboard carton of a suitable size and shape and fit the gear in it. Then measure the volume all that stuff occupied. Your panniers should be that size plus a wee bit more. A handlebar bag will accommodate a bit of overflow.

I actually just thought about this today on my ride and realize, I should just start condensing everything down now, and act as if. I have two kitty litter containers that I DIY'd into panniers for grocery shopping and utility stuff. I am going to fill those with absolute needs, and spend the next two weeks living out of that and seeing what I need the most.

The one big item I am struggling with the most is laptop vs tablet. I can't do a smart phone long term, so I am going to seek advice in another thread about best approach there.

Thank you...this thread helped me. I ended up getting Ortlieb bikepacker classic.

I am glad I didn't get the 70 liter bags. They would have been too big for me.

I don't know what I am doing on the front end yet exactly, but I now have the back end finalized now and I would have ended up with the 70L bags if I did not ask. So thanks for the help.

Front can be harder choice. You already have the waterproofness in the rear so if you have stuff that does not need to stay dry you could use non-waterproof front panniers. (I do not consider coated nylon to be waterproof.)

And some of teh newer bikes have a three bolt system on the forks for Salsa Anything cages, thus a dry bag on each side can be used instead of panniers, this is lighter than panniers but less volume.

And you could use either a conventional handlebar bag or a newer style bikepacking harness type of system that hangs from your handlebar. Could use this instead of or in addition to luggage mounted lower down on your fork.

First step, figure out how much volume you really need at this point.

Some trips I will have a lot of volume on top of the rear panniers in a dry bag or something like that. In post number 2 above you saw I had a 31 liter Ortlieb Rack Pack and an additional drybag on top of the rear rack. But some trips I have almost nothing on top of the rear panniers, in the photo below all I have on top of the rear rack is a tent pole bag but this was a short tour of only a week and the photo was taken after most of our food was already eaten.

https://cimg7.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...69ba40f8b0.jpg

Building a bike and not being totally weight conscious during the build, and not totally worried about it either, I did get a Surly Front Rack 2.0

I am coming from an Aluminum world, aluminum frames, aluminum racks, etc...so I am not use to all this steel, but understand why. I could have went with regular Tubus racks, but specifically went with this rack for multiple options of touring with panniers, bike packing, and utilizing the top of the rack for either. That top rack is actually bigger than I thought and pleasantly surprised there. I can strap down a lot to the top of that, or even expand it with something like the Surly TV tray. This bike was built with versatility in mind because I wasn't sure which direction I would go eventually. This gives me the option to do whatever I want, including taking the racks off for even lighter touring. The rack is heavy and makes the bike look like a tank. In some ways I hate it, in some ways I love it. But I haven't been on it to know what it feels like yet, as I don't have a wheel set ordered yet to ride it. The bike is almost even looking to cool ride in some ways.

I can't. Jones Loop Bars. But I am thinking of switching over to this down the road and doing just that, and for exactly that: KOGA Denham Bar

[/QUOTE]or a newer style bikepacking harness type of system that hangs from your handlebar.[QUOTE]
That I can do, or mount it to the Surly rack top bar.

Ogre forks are loaded to the gills with dual Three-Pack Mounts on each leg. I was looking at those Salsa or Blackburn Outpost Cargo


I don't have practical experience, and just knowledge based on these forums and videos of folks I follow. I think that will be fined tuned as I am walking out the door that day to go. I also think that will always be evolving. If I find a place that I want to stay a little local for a bit, I won't be carrying as heavy of a load, and at that point, I would like to convert down to more just rear panniers or bike packing setup. That's one of the reasons why I got that front Surly rack was for more options.

That is a heavy rack. I did my first couple tours with Surly racks. Then I bought a Tubus Ergo for the front and Tubus Logo EVO for the rear for touring.

The Surly front rack I decided was just too heavy. The Ergo was a lighter weight low rider.

I now have three touring bikes, I now have different front racks for each, but none are as big and heavy as the Surly front rack. On one of my touring bikes I also have a tiny little Aluminum platform rack mounted on the cantilever brake posts. But I only use the platform for a water bottle or two.

I still use the Surly rear rack for around town use when at home, I like the large platform for around town use. But for touring I am more interested in a lighter weight rack that was really built solely for panniers, the Logo EVO fits that definition perfectly.