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Selling the house and touring full time?

Old 08-26-19, 08:07 AM
  #51  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
I don't agree with this. While it "feels" right it creates two very negative scenarios.

1. You teach your children that becoming parents will end their dreams. From a young age we tell our kids they can dream, work towards goals etc... but if they have kids those dreams take a back seat. Sort of teaches them to see having kids as bad and something to be avoided.

2. Tells kids they are more important than their parents which can lead to a sense of entitlement. I cannot ever remember thinking my goals were "more important" than my parents and for the most part just went along with whatever they said we were doing.

Kids are resilient (if we teach them to be able to adapt) and will probably do ok if the parents pay attention to their needs, even in a more unconventional lifestyle. Frankly I wish my father had pursued some of his stated dreams a bit more rather than working a lot and then sitting on the couch. He had a long list of things he was going to do once he retired and died before that happened. Sometimes watching parents work towards a challenge teaches the child by example.
This is pretty much where I'm at also.

If the parents aren't happy, it's pretty hard for the kids to be happy. For some families it works out to work long hours and provide a big house and shiny car, for other families and other kids, it works better to maybe forego some of those things, and spend more time together. A healthy balance between the two is best for sure.
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Old 08-26-19, 08:27 AM
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Originally Posted by alan s View Post
To the OP: I reread your first post. You say you want your children to experience all life has to offer. Surely you realize that is impossible. They will have one set of experiences, but not others. For example, they may never go to a friend’s birthday party. Never play on a soccer team. Never be able to play in the backyard and build a fort. Maybe they will experience some of these things, but not in the same way a kid with a home in a neighborhood will. They will have a different life than most other kids, but not one that is somehow better or more fulfilling. As long as you realize a nomadic life is what you are choosing for your children, and not a “better” upbringing, you will be able to make the right decisions.
Thanks for your input, and I understand what you are thinking here. From my viewpoint though, I don't see any reason why my kids would never go to a birthday party, or build a fort in the backyard. We have a strong community of family and friends and my kids would absolutely do those things, even if we were traveling full time. Playing on a sports team long term would not be possible though. Again I'm not sure that's needed in life.

Like I said before, I have an older child that just started at the University this year. We spent her first 8 years moving around a lot and rock climbing. After we bought a house and settled down she did all the sports teams, band, organizations, etc. I'm not convinced that helped her in life any more than traveling would have.

We are currently active in our community, volunteering, etc. I do feel like those things are important, and the path to a happy life should be filled with many, many people, not a narrow lonely road. Whatever path we choose for ourselves and our 2 younger children, I'm sure it will be full.
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Old 08-26-19, 09:04 AM
  #53  
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Originally Posted by 3speed View Post
Hopefully when you decided to have kids, you decided to make them the priority in your lives... Hopefully your desires won't skew your actions, or justify them falsely. Is it really important for a child to spend their life on the big travel adventure that their parents have always wanted to do? I'm not saying you're right or wrong. Just saying it's something to think about. Maybe they'll turn out to be the most amazing, cultured geniuses of our time. Or maybe they'll turn out weird, socially awkward, and unhappy because they never had a friend or even a chance to relate to anyone their own age.

Maybe just ask your kids and let them decide. And if they say yes, but one day decide they don't want to do that anymore, then stop. Once you have kids, they should come first in every life decision you make. Once you're a parent, you should no longer come first. If you decide to do this, it should be for them, not you. If it's not for them, you shouldn't do it.

If you're not looking for life, financial, or parenting advice, what are you asking about? That's all I've seen mentioned in your post. Bike or gear advice? You mentioned starting a discussion with others who have done this, but there are very few people who have. The very few who have aren't sitting around posting on bikeforums. In any case, if you didn't want advice on those things, no need to mention them... That's like starting a thread about your bike drive-train, mentioning that it has awful brakes, and then saying that you don't want advice on the brake problem. That's silly.
I know plenty of socially awkward kids that were raised in stable, home-owner families.

I don't think it's possible to ask a 3 year old, or even an 8 year old how they would prefer to be raised. That's the job of the parent.

Discussions about how to raise children are bound to get personal quickly. That is why I asked specifically to not have that be the point of this discussion. That's not silly at all.

How many children have you raised and put in college?
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Old 08-26-19, 10:01 AM
  #54  
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[QUOTE=riverdrifter;21092891...
Discussions about how to raise children are bound to get personal quickly. That is why I asked specifically to not have that be the point of this discussion. That's not silly at all.
...[/QUOTE]

In your opening post you finished by saying,
"I know this may well open a can of worms, so I thought I should add that I am not looking for life, financial, or parenting advice. I just want to start a discussion with people who have done something like this, or considered it."
[...and then....]
"Thanks for any input!"

Those two statements are self-contradictory. It's therefore not surprising that you and your responders are starting to get testy. It sounds like the only "input" you want is what validates what you want to do anyway, or stays away from what is really the elephant in the room here: How can being voluntarily homeless to indulge an adult whim possibly be good for your children? No, you don't have to sacrifice everything for your children...but pretty damn close. That's why I'm getting involved here. I couldn't care less what nomads do with their own lives. But part of what you are proposing (the part about selling everything and traveling by bike(s) for a few years with your children, with no fixed address and no roof over their heads), when you have a choice not to, smells like child abuse. And here we all have a responsibility to at least say something -- raising children is not just the parents' call. I would think that if the child protection services of whatever jurisdiction you happened to be wandering through became aware that there were children involved, they would investigate your fitness as parents. Certainly any physician you saw would be obligated, ethically and usually legally, to notify the authorities of even a "spidey-sense" suspicion that the necessities of life weren't being provided to those kids. Please don't let it come to that.

Thus ends my input.
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Old 08-26-19, 10:29 AM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by conspiratemus1 View Post
In your opening post you finished by saying,
"I know this may well open a can of worms, so I thought I should add that I am not looking for life, financial, or parenting advice. I just want to start a discussion with people who have done something like this, or considered it."
[...and then....]
"Thanks for any input!"

Those two statements are self-contradictory. It's therefore not surprising that you and your responders are starting to get testy. It sounds like the only "input" you want is what validates what you want to do anyway, or stays away from what is really the elephant in the room here: How can being voluntarily homeless to indulge an adult whim possibly be good for your children? No, you don't have to sacrifice everything for your children...but pretty damn close. That's why I'm getting involved here. I couldn't care less what nomads do with their own lives. But part of what you are proposing (the part about selling everything and traveling by bike(s) for a few years with your children, with no fixed address and no roof over their heads), when you have a choice not to, smells like child abuse. And here we all have a responsibility to at least say something -- raising children is not just the parents' call. I would think that if the child protection services of whatever jurisdiction you happened to be wandering through became aware that there were children involved, they would investigate your fitness as parents. Certainly any physician you saw would be obligated, ethically and usually legally, to notify the authorities of even a "spidey-sense" suspicion that the necessities of life weren't being provided to those kids. Please don't let it come to that.

Thus ends my input.
Wow, just wow! Are you kidding?

Child abuse because of traveling with your children? With the means and the option to stop and rent (or buy) a home at any time? So if I kept a rental apartment in my name, would you still consider it child abuse to travel with my children? What about families that travel full time in RVs?

That is a scary world you are living in.

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Old 08-26-19, 10:34 AM
  #56  
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Originally Posted by riverdrifter View Post
Wow, just wow! Are you kidding?

Child abuse because of traveling with your children? With the means and the option to stop and rent (or buy) a home at any time? So if I kept a rental apartment in my name, would you still consider it child abuse to travel with my children?

That is a scary world you are living in.
Yep..100% scary...
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Old 08-26-19, 10:49 AM
  #57  
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A quick google search shows that, as far as children are concerned, federal law defines homeless as "...due to economic hardship or lack of housing... due to lack of alternative accommodations." So as long as you have the means to not be homeless, you are not homeless. Of course none of that matters, unless someone is complaining to the authorities about you.
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Old 08-26-19, 10:54 AM
  #58  
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This has gotten pretty far off course, I'm going to try to get it back on point.

Another option that we have discussed is sort of half-way between full-time touring and RVing. We considered getting a van or similar vehicle and outfitting it with bike racks. Not a fancy conversion van, just something simple that is less likely to be a target for theft. Then just traveling to different parts of the country, parking somewhere as a basecamp and doing mini tours. When we have explored that part of the country, than load up and drive someplace else.
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Old 08-26-19, 10:56 AM
  #59  
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You really aren't homeless if you choose to to make it your way of living. Little outside of the norm, but it's not unusual.
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Old 08-26-19, 12:29 PM
  #60  
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I am very bad at home ownership and often think of cashing out and hitting the road.
Have you ever done a bike tour? For more than a month?
I often start dreaming about laying on my recliner and watching a movie after a month on my bike.
Maybe I would actually miss home ownership after a couple months?
(My house has been paid off for a long time now and I suck at home maintenance so I dream about selling it often)
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Old 08-26-19, 12:45 PM
  #61  
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This family has the most extended travel with kids I remember ever seeing. They are not USA based but had significant experiences traveling with their children. https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/..._id=4438&v=DnF
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Old 08-26-19, 05:42 PM
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Distanciador is a device refrerenced in one of the family's posts, developed and used in Spain to distance cars from cyclists... but the link is broken and my search fu has failed. Can someone tell me what it is and how I might procure one/two?
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Old 08-26-19, 06:10 PM
  #63  
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Originally Posted by Paul J View Post
This family has the most extended travel with kids I remember ever seeing. They are not USA based but had significant experiences traveling with their children. https://www.crazyguyonabike.com/doc/..._id=4438&v=DnF
Thanks for the link! I'll check that out, tons of info there!
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Old 08-26-19, 09:17 PM
  #64  
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Originally Posted by Digger Goreman View Post
Distanciador is a device refrerenced in one of the family's posts, developed and used in Spain to distance cars from cyclists... but the link is broken and my search fu has failed. Can someone tell me what it is and how I might procure one/two?
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Old 08-27-19, 01:29 PM
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thank you!
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Old 08-28-19, 01:45 AM
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
I don't agree with this. While it "feels" right it creates two very negative scenarios.

1. You teach your children that becoming parents will end their dreams. From a young age we tell our kids they can dream, work towards goals etc... but if they have kids those dreams take a back seat. Sort of teaches them to see having kids as bad and something to be avoided.

2. Tells kids they are more important than their parents which can lead to a sense of entitlement. I cannot ever remember thinking my goals were "more important" than my parents and for the most part just went along with whatever they said we were doing.

Kids are resilient (if we teach them to be able to adapt) and will probably do ok if the parents pay attention to their needs, even in a more unconventional lifestyle. Frankly I wish my father had pursued some of his stated dreams a bit more rather than working a lot and then sitting on the couch. He had a long list of things he was going to do once he retired and died before that happened. Sometimes watching parents work towards a challenge teaches the child by example.
Some dreams Do end when you have children. You can't have it all. When you decide to have children, you Should also decide that you no longer come first. They do. And of course that doesn't mean to spoil them and do everything they want and turn them into spoiled little ****heads. You obviously have to still teach them about real life, not getting everything they want, having to work for things, compromise, etc, etc, etc. The list goes on. But at the end of the day, your big life decisions Should be based on your children's needs. If you can't be selfless for your own *ing children, they don't have much hope in life anyway with that parent as an example to lead them...
Originally Posted by riverdrifter View Post
This is pretty much where I'm at also.

If the parents aren't happy, it's pretty hard for the kids to be happy. For some families it works out to work long hours and provide a big house and shiny car, for other families and other kids, it works better to maybe forego some of those things, and spend more time together. A healthy balance between the two is best for sure.
No one said anything about the stupid American dream BS about a big house, shiny car, a pile of debt, and working 70hrs/week at the office. It's not an all or nothing choice. There's a BIG difference between that and living a simple, stable life that is best for your children.
Originally Posted by riverdrifter View Post
I know plenty of socially awkward kids that were raised in stable, home-owner families.
Of course. There are Tons of reasons a child could grow up to be socially awkward. All the more reason not to add to the list...
How many children have you raised and put in college?[/QUOTE]
Zero. I still want to travel and live a more carefree life. My personal views are that traveling and a carefree life are on the complete opposite end of the spectrum from raising a child. I'm not ready to give up my personal adventure and growth yet.
But I never said your views have to be the same as mine. I urged you to think hard about it from the perspective I spoke of, in case you hadn't already. I never said you were wrong, or a ****ty parent. I just said some things that I think you should think hard about.
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Old 08-28-19, 11:17 AM
  #67  
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Not trying to pick on you but your reasons for not having kids sort of speaks to my point number one quoted.
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Old 08-28-19, 10:19 PM
  #68  
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Originally Posted by riverdrifter View Post
Thanks everyone, for all the input so far!

Seeing all the comments, I feel I should add some info.

We would definitely have a bail-out plan for whenever we decide we are done, or in case someone gets sick, etc. We have a solid community of family and friends that are understanding of our desires and have offered temporary, back-up housing for us all. Also it wouldn't be an issue to stop anytime and rent someplace. We also have a place to park an RV indefinitely, if we decide to go that route. Any way we do it, it would be well planned.

We have 3 kids, home-schooled with individual curriculum created by my wife and I. Our oldest just started University. We spent all day yesterday moving her onto campus and taking her shopping to set up her new dorm room. It was a bittersweet day.

The 2 younger kids spent their home-school day with the substitute teacher, my mom . There is for sure, no shortage of educational opportunities, nourishing, enriching, affection, and love.

The first few years of our oldest child's life was spent traveling and adventuring. We decided to try the "buy a house, put down roots" thing, and we see pros and cons both ways. I'm not sure which is better. We are still looking at options.
I guess to try a shorter tour with the two younger kids & see how it goes? They might love it, maybe not. Maybe combine RV & bike touring, go to central/South America for a while?
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Old 08-29-19, 01:14 AM
  #69  
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
Not trying to pick on you but your reasons for not having kids sort of speaks to my point number one quoted.
No worry. I don't feel picked on at all. As I said above, yes, some dreams Should end when you have children. And your life Should change a lot when you have children. That doesn't mean they're bad, or that people shouldn't have kids. It means that they should think about their lives before having them, and realize that their priorities should change in a very drastic way. So yeah, kids aren't for everyone, whenever. It should be an intentional choice. You should be Ready to have kids. It Should be a thought out decision. Your life Should change when you decide to go from just worrying about yourself to worrying about raising a happy, healthy human being who will be a Benefit to society, not a selfish ****head, a depressed recluse, an angry person who doesn't know how to deal with their emotions, etc, etc. Disagree if you wish. No need to mention not trying to pick on me. I'm very happy with my opinion on the subject. And I very much hope that our society starts to feel more the same. That seems to be the case. Look at the trends and you'll see that those damn Millennials are, on a general scale, waiting longer to have children, until they've accomplished more of their own goals, become more financially stable, etc. Crazy, right.... I guess maybe we should just all skip the condoms and have kids on a whim like history has taught. That generally seems to lead to unhappy parents, messed up kids who have been neglected or abused in various ways, etc, etc.
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Old 09-01-19, 01:40 PM
  #70  
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I'm a retired yacht builder and in younger years sailed a fair amount and still retain a strong interest in sailing and life at sea. I enjoy some of the many sailing videos posted by all sorts of people. The video linked to is by a couple who sold their house, cars and much else, bought a sailboat and set off to sail 'round the world. I find this couples' videos well done and interesting.
There are many other videos, some of families with children who are home schooled and get to see many different societies the world over.
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Old 09-01-19, 03:42 PM
  #71  
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Originally Posted by riverdrifter View Post

I know this may well open a can of worms, so I thought I should add that I am not looking for life, financial, or parenting advice. I just want to start a discussion with people who have done something like this, or considered it.
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Old 09-02-19, 07:07 PM
  #72  
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That's cute. It's So original and unexpected. Good job. What about all of the people who do have kids who feel the same way? It seems like anytime I've ever seen someone post something like that, it's usually preceded by bad parenting... "Yeah my kid is a 150lb 6yr old who drinks a case of Mountain Dew a day, but if I don't give it to him, he screams until I do. You're not a parent, so you don't know anything!" You don't always have to be a parent to tell something isn't best for a child. I'm no artist, but I know when I'm looking at some blue paint and a wacky artist is telling me it's green, he's wrong... It doesn't take a rocket scientist to look up something on children and stability and find the Ocean of information available. Not one thing about it says stability isn't important. It All says it is important. That concept is so obvious that even a childless, inexperienced person like me can clearly see it.

And I'm responding generically here, not about you in particular since I don't know you - Maybe people who Choose not to have kids at a young age, and are responsible enough to successfully use birth control, because they realize how big of a commitment and life change it is to have kids, might actually be better, more responsible parents than some people who "accidentally" have kids in an impromptu drunken/hormone driven grope fest at a young age...

Sorry for the run-on sentence. Anywho, I'm out. Have fun. I wish you and your children the best. If parenthood makes you that unhappy, maybe it will be less detrimental to them to live life on the road.
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Old 09-03-19, 11:35 AM
  #73  
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^^^^^ I'm not sure where you are getting any of this from? Did you even read my posts, or just read the thread title and started making self-righteous snap judgements?

I never mentioned being unhappy. I'm incredibly happy as a parent! Being a parent is the greatest thing ever!

What is with all your "give up your dreams" schtick? In my opening post I wrote that I'd like to tour full time with my kids, FOR THEM. Not me, I want them to be able to experience full time travel. And so far, as much as kids can, they do want that. I also wrote that if anything changed, we would stop right away. Like I said, this would be carefully thought out and organized, with an exit plan.

I didn't have kids young. I waited till I was 30, then I worked hard to provide for my family and now I'm 50. My house and vehicles are paid off, I'm debt free, and I'm semi-retired with a moderate alternative income stream that I've developed over the years. Now I think my kids would enjoy traveling and I'm in the position to try that.

Someone mentioned me wanting validation for my decision, well of course I do. Firstly though, the decision is not yet made. Secondly, I'd love to hear any negatives also.

And again, I specifically requested that this not be about parenting advice. All I want is a discussion with people who've given up a permanent home base in order to travel full time, with family or not.

I guess we just need to agree to disagree... but I can assure you that if and when you do have children... your entire world will change. Nothing that you thought you knew before will ever be the same again. That is based on my experience of 30 years without children, and 20 years with children. You can read all you want about it in books, but readin' ain't doin'.
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Old 09-03-19, 02:36 PM
  #74  
indyfabz
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I'm never having kids. Never wanted to.

And on the subject of raising kids, if you want to watch something really funny go to YouTube and search "Bill Burr Motherhood." Watch the 3:22 min. version. Warning: Totally NSFW.
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Old 09-03-19, 06:55 PM
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OP, try a 1-2 month summer tour when the kids aren't in school for starters. Might give a good feel for what you seek. Without going full on life change. Think about say a one or 2 month tour every summer for say 5 years? Thats would get you lots of travel. Just a thought.
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