This looks exactly like a dirt bike, but since it has pedals, it’s actually a bicycle. Coming to a trail near you soon.

https://lunacycle.com/sur-ron-x-bike...black-edition/

I didn't read everything or follow every link, but what I saw indicated that it was an electric motorcycle. I saw no indication that it had pedals at all or was in any way claiming to be a bicycle. Did I miss something?

I do agree that there could be a problem with how various jurisdictions define what constitutes an ebike and with how they enforce that definition, but I doubt this particular bike is likely to meet the definition of an ebike anywhere, unless we are talking in very loose terms and referring to e-motorcycles which are an entirely different animal. It might be better if the term used were ebicycle, since there is even a big 950 + pound, 100 + hp e-harley now.

*smh*


"IMPORTANT NOTE: These bikes are shipped road legal limited to 20mph and 750 watt to make them legal in most states, a 5 minute modification requiring a simple screw driver will take all limits off the bike to make it a full 5200 watts and illegal for road use in all 50 states"

Not entirely unreasonable given that the intended use of these ought to be off road use in appropriate settings like an appropriate closed course. The scary thing is that in actuality they will be more often misused than used properly. In addition to the irresponsible adult riders, I can imagine city kids with no proper place to ride them and no supervision whatsoever being just turned loose on them. Really no different than gasoline powered dirt bikes in many ways though and at least probably better environmentally and least not obnoxiously noisy.

Also as far as I saw, there were no pedals and no claim to be an ebike so we won't see them legally on the national park trails, again unless I missed something. If there is some reference to pedals or a claim that they are ebikes using the e assisted bike definition please point out my error. I didn't read everything or follow all of the links.

Yep. Hence the shaking of the head.

There are many places where the legal definition of a thing does not match the dictionary or some group's understanding of a term. That's why the laws generally make a point of defining these terms: to clarify when the legal definition might not match someone's general understanding. You say a "bicycle" requires pedals, and it's right there in the definition. As are the two wheels. Also not meeting that definition: tricycles (adult/child/recumbent), balance bikes, handcycles, quadcycles. All technically not bicycles, but all covered, in most cases, by existing laws because in legal terms, they all fall into the general category of "bicycle." And it makes sense. How helpful would it be to clutter the legal code with duplicate laws to apply to every variation of vehicle that functionally performs at the same level with similar infrastructure and safety requirements?

Every time e-bikes gets mentioned here it turns into a bunch of weird tantrums about what constitutes bicycling, and who can say that they're "bike touring" and who cannot. I really don't care what you call whatever you're doing.

But when it comes to using the infrastructure, it's a question of doing it safely and responsibly. I see no reason label as invalid any form of transportation that can be operated in the same space with the same level of safety and responsibility. Ride an e-bike, pedals or no; roll around in a giant hamster ball; ride in a hammock suspended from drones. As long as you can do it without being a danger to other trail users or to the trail itself.

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...b47a74e8e5.gif

Hard to tell from the photos, but you are right, no pedals. But it’s still a bicycle?

https://cimg5.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...5a38a610f.jpeg

https://cimg8.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...0f413c335.jpeg
Here’s one with pedals for the purists.

Pasted from one of the user reviews:

Yup.

And that one photo on their website that shows it has a bicycle license is a bit appalling, most jurisdictions allow you to apply for a bike license on-line so of course they chose to license it that way so that they could claim it was "officially" a bicycle. I could license my truck as a bicycle that way in my community for the cost of $10, but of course nobody would accept the claim that my truck is a bicycle because everybody knows what a truck is.

As I said above in a previous post, I am not opposed to e-bikes on roads, but I am opposed to them being used on trails that were designed for non-motorized travel.

I draw the line in a bit different place. I am okay with what I consider genuine power assisted bicycles on MUPs and other developed paths. I am still trying to get my head around what I think about them on actual trails that allow mountain biking. It gets to be more of a slippery slope there. I definitely don't think electric motocross bikes pretending to be bicycles belong in national parks.

FWIW, a lot of the folks feel the same way about MTBs or even bikes in general in the national parks. When you start restricting you just might find bikes kicked out altogether. It isn't impossible.

Many years ago a friend of mine and I drove from Toronto Canada to Algonquin Park in Ontario, Canada. We intended to ride our mountain bikes on the trails there. However, upon arrival we were informed in no uncertain terms that MTBs were NOT allowed on the trails in the park and to stay on the dirt or paved ROADS. Now you can ride an MTB on many of the trails there. They were concerned that hard braking of MTBs would cause wear and then erosion of the trails. Times change.

I wouldn't mind E-bikes on MUPs or Rail-Trails if the E-bike rider would use some sense and ride in a manner that doesn't endanger others. I've seen and experience far too many instances of E-bike rider riding as fast as their E-bike could go and with absolutely no regard for anyone else who might be on the trail or path. Zooming along at high speed whilst approaching a blind curve/corner where someone including children or people with children might be approaching from the opposite direction is not a considerate thing to do on a bicycle or on an E-bike let alone an electric scooter/motorbike.

Cheers

Adjusted...
I replace 1 word and your paragraph applies perfectly to what I see most times I am on a busy interurban paved path near me.



Its not the arrow- it's the cyclist.

Ok, I am convinced, no E-Hammocks on bike trails either.

Yeah. Happens on a very popular trail in Philly that goes out into the 'burbs. It's basically the I-95 of bike trails in the area. I am a courteous cyclist so that sort of behavior drives me nuts. We even get a good number of people using aero bars that appear to be training for tris. They don't stop for anyone. Ride like that at 6 a.m., when the trail pretty empty, not on a Saturday afternoon when it's crowded.

I've just toured in Germany. They sold 1.2 million E bikes last year. That said (and yes they were everywhere) I'm surprised to see in the original post that E bikes were previously banned ?

Why would local authority or country be so short sighted as to ban an E bike.....they are restricted to 15 mph as a rule yet open up a massive leisure activity for people who couldn't ordinarily cycle for whatever reason.

https://cimg0.ibsrv.net/gimg/bikefor...e20f0346e4.jpg

Sign at West Bragg Creek Provincial Recreation Area. Hub of many multi user trails.

Now there are some smart people... I 100% agree with their regs… :thumb: :thumb: :thumb:

There's no maybe this or maybe that, rules,... It's you MUST pedal or you are not riding a bicycle... How much simpler can you get...???

I do not think any state in USA bans them, I think they are allowed on roads in any state.

On trails, the ban is for safety. The trails were designed for low speed muscle powered bicyclists or pedestrians and the trails are quite narrow, narrower than a single traffic lane on a street.

I do not think any e-bikes sold in my state are restricted to 15 mph, I think that they are all restricted at 20 or 30 mph. But as mentioned above, many such bikes have the restricting device disabled so they can go as fast as the 750 watt motor can take them.

The state considered a rule that allowed e-bikes on the bike trails as long as they never went over 15 mph. The lobbyists for the manufacturers and retailers pushed hard for this rule, but since few if any of the e-bikes that were sold here were fitted with a speedometer, nobody would know if they are going slow enough or not. I think that is one reason that the state did not allow them.

Some of the bike trails here are not rail to trail type trails, thus they do not always go in straight lines, some trails here are through forests and have curves where you can't see more than 20 to 30 feet ahead at times.

Its part of a pilot study on ebikes, there is a survey you can fill out. I think BC is doing similar but I'm not what stage they are at.

From an article on BC ebike regs:

Some of these objections are almost exactly the same as when mountain bikes became popular in the 80s. The bits about excessive speed with respect to other trail users, the ability of ebikes to take people farther into the back country, and increased wear on trails are the same. They are legitimate to a certain extent. Do they justify banning ebikes? I would say "No". Regulation is necessary but difficult to implement. Sometimes it is just easier to ban.

https://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/british-columbia/regulation-for-Regulation for electric bikes may forever change B.C. mountain trails

Then there is this...

Getting Away with Riding an Illegal ebike: 10 tips

https://www.electricbike.com/illegal-ebike-riding/

Until a few months ago they were illegal in NYC:

https://nyc.streetsblog.org/2019/06/...an-exemptions/