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Question about Surly Troll dropouts

Old 11-10-19, 07:43 PM
  #51  
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Guys,

for surly troll with monkey nut v2:

- does it really affect riding characteristics?

thanks.
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Old 11-10-19, 07:52 PM
  #52  
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Originally Posted by dmitry2011
Guys,

for surly troll with monkey nut v2:

- does it really affect riding characteristics?

thanks.
I have to ask, what did someone tell you or whatever that you think that they affect riding characteristics?
All I can say is that I have always had these v2 on my bike, and it doesnt really have any affect. They do set the rear wheel back a bit, so a slightly longer wheelbase, but my troll still handles nice and quickly, yet stable.
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Old 11-10-19, 07:54 PM
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Originally Posted by Txthroop

Here she is! I've been able to ride about 30 miles since I brought it home and it's been more fun than I expected. Very different from the 26" LHT and I really like it. It's higher, more nimble, seems to roll a little smoother and stops on a dime. Here are my first thoughts:

Wheel size - Although they're still 26" wheels, I underestimated how much of a difference going from 1.5" tires (LHT) to 2.5" tires would make. Between the softer ride and the slightly improved attack angle, they really feel like a luxury.

Seat - Unfortunately, some of that luxury is lost in translation with a stock saddle that isn't comfortable for me. I'm thinking of trying one of the carved Brooks Cambium saddles. C15 or C17?

Disc brakes - Avid BB7s. Fantastic! This is my first bike with disc brakes and - strictly for stopping power - they're great. What remains to be seen is my experience with maintaining them and maintaining the bike parts around them. People seem to have a love/hate relationship with disc brakes and I'm waiting for the other shoe to drop. Taking wheels on and off seems to be a more delicate operation than with rim brakes. Also, I think I hear subtle pings and tings coming from the rotors. Could just be the spokes settling in but I'm thinking more the brakes. I'll be looking at them more closely.

Jones Loop bars and cockpit: Very comfortable so far and I'm quickly getting used to the thumb shifters.

Crank arms: Definitely need more time to evaluate this one. The Troll has 175mm cranks, which is up from the 170s I have on the Trucker. This is a very noticeable difference to me but I'm not sure if it's better/just different/worse.

I have installed front and rear racks now but haven't been out with a load on it yet. I'm very interested to see how it rides when loaded.

I think my biggest conundrum at the moment is what kind of fenders to try with the 26x2.5" Extra Terrestrial tires. There's nothing out there I can find to fit these. The Planet Bike Cascadias come in a 26x60mm size or 29x65mm; the first may be too narrow, the second may leave a huge gap between the fender and the tire. SKS has these https://www.sks-germany.com/en/produ...els-75-u-long/ but they will likely have the same gap issue. Has anyone had any luck with fenders for this size tire?

In my initial excitement for the new Troll, I was worried my LHT might get relegated to the back corner of the shed. However, since the roads were wet on Monday and the Troll doesn't have fenders yet, I rode the Trucker to work. I was happy to realize I still love that bike and I'm less concerned about neglecting it now.
hey throop, have you been riding it a bit still? and how do you feel about the wide tires and everything overall?
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Old 01-27-20, 05:21 PM
  #54  
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Originally Posted by djb
hey throop, have you been riding it a bit still? and how do you feel about the wide tires and everything overall?
I run 65mm x 26" SKS Bluemels with the extra little extension on the front https://www.bike-components.de/en/SK...poiler-p12601/ with ETs, they work great.
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Old 01-27-20, 05:53 PM
  #55  
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Originally Posted by Trevtassie
I run 65mm x 26" SKS Bluemels with the extra little extension on the front https://www.bike-components.de/en/SK...poiler-p12601/ with ETs, they work great.
great.
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Old 06-09-20, 03:46 PM
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Sorry to go off topic a bit but I am in the middle of Troll or no Troll decision. Has anyone ever ridden a Troll in Umstead Park in Raleigh, NC? I'm trying to decide between a Troll, Ogre or Club Ride to replace my 1993 Trek 930 I ride there daily. Any need to put 27.5's on a Troll?

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Old 06-10-20, 07:54 AM
  #57  
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Originally Posted by mkmartin333
Sorry to go off topic a bit but I am in the middle of Troll or no Troll decision. Has anyone ever ridden a Troll in Umstead Park in Raleigh, NC? I'm trying to decide between a Troll, Ogre or Club Ride to replace my 1993 Trek 930 I ride there daily. Any need to put 27.5's on a Troll?
can't help you with a specific park in nc, but the Bridge Club (assume you mean this model) is a lot less money than both troll and ogre.

but it depends...

your turn for giving more details and or specific questions
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Old 06-10-20, 10:36 AM
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The park is gravel dirt ranger roads with quick turns at the bottom of steep hills then back up a steep hill. I am a 65yo female trying hard but appreciating my granny gears. I have been having fun on the 1993 Trek 930 (24/34/42, 11-28) for years but am ready for something new. I picked the Troll as the best replacement but a local shop was trying to sell me one of the Bridge Clubs they have saying it would be more 'fun' and the Troll would be sluggish and not handle the park as well. Would I notice in the park I ride? Didn't notice during road test ride. The 27.5" wheels do sound fun but I am told are less maneuverable. I also plan to use the bike ~ 5-10% of the time for local trips like the GAP & C&O from Pittsburgh to Wash DC. Plus I now have a Bob trailer.

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Old 06-10-20, 01:44 PM
  #59  
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Originally Posted by mkmartin333
The park is gravel dirt ranger roads with quick turns at the bottom of steep hills then back up a steep hill. I am a 65yo female trying hard but appreciating my granny gears. I have been having fun on the 1993 Trek 930 (24/34/42, 11-28) for years but am ready for something new. I picked the Troll as the best replacement but a local shop was trying to sell me one of the Bridge Clubs they have saying it would be more 'fun' and the Troll would be sluggish and not handle the park as well. Would I notice in the park I ride? Didn't notice during road test ride. The 27.5" wheels do sound fun but I am told are less maneuverable. I also plan to use the bike ~ 5-10% of the time for local trips like the GAP & C&O from Pittsburgh to Wash DC. Plus I now have a Bob trailer.
my wife is an early 60s female who appreciates her granny gears on her Troll, so I guess I can give some (hopefully) informed opinions from at least the angle of knowing what a similarly aged rider likes and appreciates.
-the troll has the triple crankset, 48/36/26 and ten speed 11-36 cassette. The troll used to come with those rather large 2.5in tires, Surly Extraterrestrials, but I switched them to 1.5 in (38-40mm) middle of the road tread tires, not slicks but still with tread. With these tires and gearing, her Troll has a low gear of 18 gear inches--dont worry if you arent familiar with gear inches, we'll just use it as a reference, that we can compare to your present bike. We could call it 18 pomegranates or whatever....
18 gear inches, g.i. is a real nice low gear
Your present bike probably has 26in wheels, and lets say it has 1.5 inch tires, so with the 42/34/24 and 11-28 it has a low gear of 21.3 g.i.
21.3 vs 18 means 18 is about almost 2 shifts more lower gears than what your bike has.

the bridge club is geared with a single 32t chainring, and 11-50t cassette, tires are 27.5x 2.4 stock, this gives it a low gear of also 18 g.i.

the brdge club will be a lighter bike than the troll by a certain amount. I know the troll wheels are 36 spoke, BC has 32 spoke, and probably not as heavy rims also, plus the triple is heavier etc etc, so its probably a good 5lbs lighter as a guess, but I dont know.
The top gear on the BC is not that high , but if you are someone who never wants to ride and pedal past 25mph or lets say 40kph, then this isnt an issue....

for sure, a lighter bike is more enjpyable, you arent planning to ride around the world, so the BC is a valid choice. Pulling a BOB trailer doesnt need a extremely solid bike, and the BC is ample in any case...

my thoughts on 26in vs 27.5?? I dont really see the diff in real world riding that you'd be doing. Tire choices make a real diff in how a bike handles and turns also, and I love how my troll rides, at all speeds from 4kph to 80kph....but thats me.
My wife is short, 5ft, and her xs troll fits her really well, but then a properly sized Bridge club would also be fine Im sure. The 26 in wheel bike is probably lower to ground, the sloped top tube on my wifes troll makes it easier for her to swing foot over...is the bridge club an issue for this, i dont know...?
26in wheels are also nice for not hitting your toes on the front tire when turning sharply, ESPECIALLY on S and XS frames. Again, dont know if the BC has this issue and what size frame you use. Also, if you put smaller tires on a BC then this would give more toe room..

bottom line , both bikes have good low gears, lower than your present bike, which always is good, and great to have when you need them. My troll has even lower gearing, 16.7 gear inch low, and I use it and appreciate it with panniers and stuff on the bike when touring. Its lower cuz i have a 44/32/22 and 11-34, and that with 2in tires gives 16.7 g.i.

so for comparing wheel sizes, 26 vs 27.5, its probably a wash and not really any real world difference, but look into the weight thing. Plus being cheaper, the BC could free up money for other touring gear if you need to buy a tent or whatever...

anyway, just some thoughts, only you know how both felt riding.
hope some of this willmake you consider things you didnt already.
get back with more quesitons if you feel like it
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Old 06-10-20, 03:44 PM
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Thank you so much! I just checked out the weights - BC=29.3, Troll=29 & Trek 930 28.3 lbs. I just weighed my day rider Trek with all its farkles & it weighs 36 lbs so I don't see a prob there! i read the BC has hydraulic brakes something I would have to change, along with bars & add chainrings. The Troll is ready to go. Both bike would have to get a new saddle & grip shifters. Right now it is hard to get a BC but the Troll is available now. Waiting for a BC would mean more bucks for other farkles but would have to ride my Trek if I do the GAP & C&O this fall. The Trek has 26" wheels, 1.75in width. The other negative is the horizontal dropout but sweetie says 'not to worry'. I did test ride a BC with 27.5's but only on the road, just felt naked & new. No Trolls available but it really sounds comparable to but better than the Trek. I think I'm gonna pull the trigger on the Troll. I hope to put a Schmidt dynamo with charger & lights on it. I'm pretty pumped. Thanks so much for all the help!
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Old 06-10-20, 04:11 PM
  #61  
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Hey, no problem.
Farkles, that's funny. Never heard that expression, are you a Brit?
I just weighed my wife's troll and it's 33lbs, but that's with a rear rack, pedals and a Brooks b17 (not a light seat), oh and inexpensive trekking or butterfly bars, which are not light also. So the weight stated kind of adds up.
Horizontal dropouts are a bit odd, different slightly putting wheel back on, but doable. I have fenders on mine, but have something called surly monkey nuts, that goes into dropout and sets wheel an inch or whatever back a bit. I also set up my fenders with lots of space, this allows me to remove wheel without touching fender.
Troll stock bars used to be Jones bars, but I think now are moloko or something, you may like them.
I personally prefer mechanical discs for simplicity, but that's cuz I got my troll to do far off trips.
I put regular 1.5 in marathons, kept 2.5 ET s in case I ever set up my bike for more off-road.

If other questions come up, don't be shy.

Last edited by djb; 06-10-20 at 04:36 PM. Reason: Brit not bit
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Old 06-10-20, 05:10 PM
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Not a Brit. I guess I got farkle from watch car shows & at the track with motorhead sweetie. Hope to like the Moloko bar. Angle is very similar to my Carver Mai Tai bars on the Trek plus room for more farkles. Am breaking in a Brooks B17S now for the Troll. Will save this page since there is so much valuable information for the Troll. Will read again before I hit you with anymore questions. Can't thank you enough. Oh, & the charger is needed since I will be trekking on my own so a phone would be a nice touch. So cool that y'all have each other as built in riding partners. Thanks again!
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Old 06-10-20, 06:16 PM
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other half's xs troll, you can see how low down the top tube slopes...bit tricky finding a rear rack, this is a reasonably priced Trek small size rack, with the lower down rails to put panniers lower a bit. On her bike you can see the 1.5 inch regular marathons, replaced the fattie 2.5 ET's.
Other shot is my farkled all up bike, pretty certain photo taken in Honduras. I bought mine used about 4 years ago, it had been built up as a mountain bike, but I changed it to dropbars for my intended Latin American trips. Mine has a mtb triple 44/32/22 which I wanted anyway cuz I knew the terrain I'd be riding loaded in, ie steep and lots of mountains.

My bike also has lighter wheelset than a stock troll, so between everything, my bike with fenders, front and rear rack, pedals, weighs about 32 lbs, bit less than my wifes at 33 (my racks are fairly light, wheelset and tires lighter, handlebars lighter, my XT triple crankset lighter than stock Deore 48/36/26 )

One nice thing with troll is that the front fork is a real sturdy bugger, and Ive found that that helps make the bike rather stable and planted going over rough stuff. With my wifes bike, for sure it isnt a light bike, but for her the fact that it generally doesnt get ruffled going over potholes and such is a real plus for her, and helps a lot with safety if she doesnt notice stuff that well and hits holes etc.

my troll has been really impressive riding loaded. It handles really well, many factors for this, but for sure the frame and geometry and basic dna is a good mix of everything.
I would suspect that the bridge club rides very much the same.
I find they over did the whole front fork attachment points, my wifes front fork looks like some kind of medieval mace with all the fricken silver bolts in all the mounting holes (maybe some goofy number like 16 all told)
Google troll fork images 2017 and up and you'll see.

motorhead sweetie--funny. I'm a rare bird here who is a bike nut, but has always closely followed motorsport, so have a foot in both camps.

re front dynamo, I dont have one so dont have any suggestions. Im sure a good amount of researching is worth making sure you get the right farkles, thinking specifically of the doohickey that attaches to it for the usb plug and regulating output and all that stuff. I read about it a bit, but not enough to really know anything.

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Old 06-10-20, 06:19 PM
  #64  
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oops, old photo of my wifes bike. Hadnt changed the rear rack to the present trek one. This rack was waaay to high, bit of a pain actually, why I looked for a much shorter one...
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Old 06-11-20, 12:15 PM
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djb - thanks so much. Just put the order in. Now I have a week to work on my farkle order.
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Old 06-11-20, 09:05 PM
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you're welcome
they are pretty cool and versatile bikes. Post 2017 they changed the part of the chainstays near the chainrings so that you can fit 3in tires at the rear also, before I think the max was 2.6 or something. So for someone looking into doing a lot more off road stuff, 3in apparently really makes a diff compared to 2.5 or whatever, when on soft surfaces, but is faster than a fat bike with gonzo big tires.
the whole horizontal dropouts appeals to those few interested in going the Rohlof route, I had thought about it but didnt figure it was worth the money and preferred to use that money not spent on other stuff, and am fine with a derailleur and am used to them.

and really, if some time down the road you decide you dont like using it anymore, if you take care of it , because its such a known quantity of a bike for long, tough expeditiony type trips, it will retain its value well. They have quite the following for adventurous trips, and as I always say to people, with a change of tires and maybe handlebars, I wouldnt hesitate heading off to anywhere on a trip with my bike--I have that much confidence in it as a good solid, well handling bike.

but I readily admit I'm biased.
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Old 06-12-20, 02:23 PM
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I'm really stoked. Should be here in a week. One of the few bikes out there. Now to figure out the ins & outs of dynamos, chargers, batteries, lights, brackets, wiring. I can spend a mint & do whatever Peter White says or get reading.

Thanks again.
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Old 07-07-23, 11:40 AM
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For my upcoming tour I won't bother to make a new wheel for the (Gnot boost dropout) Ogre, but instead try my luck with the existing QR hub plus boost adapter thingies, the ones that fall on the ground when you pull the wheel. I know myself: first flat and one of these adapters will roll straight through the sewer grate or maybe disappear in a bunch of mean looking weeds with terrible thorns . Put some teflon tape on the hub axle ends and that helps a little but I'd like to glue these things on, so I'm am looking for glue or some product that makes the adapters stick but is easily removable from the hub axle for overhaul. Any tips?
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Old 07-07-23, 04:15 PM
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Originally Posted by CMAW
For my upcoming tour I won't bother to make a new wheel for the (Gnot boost dropout) Ogre, but instead try my luck with the existing QR hub plus boost adapter thingies, the ones that fall on the ground when you pull the wheel. I know myself: first flat and one of these adapters will roll straight through the sewer grate or maybe disappear in a bunch of mean looking weeds with terrible thorns . Put some teflon tape on the hub axle ends and that helps a little but I'd like to glue these things on, so I'm am looking for glue or some product that makes the adapters stick but is easily removable from the hub axle for overhaul. Any tips?
I hardly ever have had to remove my wifes rear wheel, so forget about the adapter thingees that can fall and get lost---- it has been so long since Ive removed the rear wheel that I forget exactly how they seat up against the axle and hub. My guess would be some of that stuff in a tube like toothpaste that you use to repair shoes etcetc. I think the stuff I have is called Shoe Goo, or close to that. I have used this stuff to repair some plastic things, so this might be a good option. I would think that you could cut or slice this stuff with a sharp knive if you really needed to.
Off hand, this is the only suggestion that comes to mind, although I like the idea of using something to try to reduce the risk of losing one of these things--so I am interested in seeing what ideas you come up with.
You could also ask Surly directly, this might be the best idea.
good luck
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Old 07-08-23, 03:58 AM
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Bolt through the front eyelet acting as a chain hanger and two plastic plugs made to fit tightly in the axle after removing the QR, securing the adapters. At least on the stand this works quite well. Still not really easy to reinstall the wheel I find, between the dropouts, the disc and the shimano derailleur... I foresee a lot of cursing in the real world.
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Old 07-08-23, 11:23 AM
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Putting IGH and deFaileurs on the same bike is as daffy as it gets.
I've had bolt/ nut disc Rohloff and SA XL-RD5w on my custom. Home made mount with no problem aligning. Whole bike is my DIY design actually. LOL.
One of the pads wore more crooked, but then I heard that TRP calipers tend to do this. I leave the gap big, doesn't seem to matter much. Stops instantly every time.
I use whatever wrench end is close to get the rim centered.
Having a QR one doesn't make much sense with a track D.O either.

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