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Touring Have a dream to ride a bike across your state, across the country, or around the world? Self-contained or fully supported? Trade ideas, adventures, and more in our bicycle touring forum.

Attn MODS...Suggestion for a new forum

Old 12-01-19, 09:22 PM
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MAK
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Attn MODS...Suggestion for a new forum

I think it's time for a new BIKEPACKING FORUM, either as a stand alone or a Touring sub-forum. The bikes are often different, the bags are different, the load carried is different due to bag capacity, etc.. I believe that the information in a focused forum would be extremely helpful.
Does anyone else agree, or am I the only one?

Thank you for any consideration regarding this suggestion.
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Old 12-01-19, 09:56 PM
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These forums are so divvied up as is, I personally don't see it drawing enough interest to merit a stand alone forum. Also, not to mention that there can be quite a bit of crossover between bike packing and more traditional packing. JMO
But definitely worth the query.

Last edited by robow; 12-01-19 at 10:20 PM.
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Old 12-01-19, 10:02 PM
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If touring was just about the equipment discussion, then fine.
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Old 12-01-19, 10:04 PM
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I thought a similar question had been proposed in the past, and didn't go anywhere.

Part of the issue might be forum design.

I usually peruse the "New Posts", and don't bother with the subforums a lot. However, if designed as a subforum, it should be such that all the posts show up in the main forum, the next higher level.

I agree with @robow, the forum will die off if there are fewer than one "new" post a day. I'm not sure the level of interest in a separate forum justifies the split.

One would note that already we have issues with topics that cross forum lines. So, your bikepacking might cross forums from bike packing to MTB to utility to??? Yes, some specific, some general.
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Old 12-01-19, 10:21 PM
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Bikepacking is growing in popularity so I can understand the idea for a separate forum. OTOH the Touring forum isn't swamped by a huge # of threads & there are a lot of things that bikepackers & trad tourists sometimes have in common. Plus there are separate non-Bike Forums groups dealing with bikepacking.
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Old 12-01-19, 10:40 PM
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For me it is all bike touring. I tour a lot on a fat bike in the winter yet do not bother posting often in the fat bike forum because my primary focus is on touring ... the gear is bike packing though so where would I post? Touring, Fat Biking or Bike packing?

... the type of bike changes on riding conditions. I also do quite a bit of touring with bike racks on a touring bike as well as touring on a tandem yet I seldom post in the Tandem forum...and I do bike packing on a Gravel bike ... it is all touring to me
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Old 12-01-19, 11:10 PM
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Originally Posted by PedalingWalrus View Post
For me it is all bike touring. I tour a lot on a fat bike in the winter yet do not bother posting often in the fat bike forum because my primary focus is on touring ... the gear is bike packing though so where would I post? Touring, Fat Biking or Bike packing?

... the type of bike changes on riding conditions. I also do quite a bit of touring with bike racks on a touring bike as well as touring on a tandem yet I seldom post in the Tandem forum...and I do bike packing on a Gravel bike ... it is all touring to me
I agree. Touring with panniers or a saddle bag is still touring.

What is the OP looking for in particular?
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Old 12-02-19, 12:49 AM
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Maybe just the forum title/description could be updated, to let people know that bikepacking discussion is welcome...

"Have a dream to travel on your bike over a weekend, across your state, across the country, or around the world? Self-contained or fully supported? Bikepacking, ultralight, or fully loaded -- discuss all kinds of bicycle touring here."
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Old 12-02-19, 02:44 AM
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If we have a Bikepacking forum, then I think there should be a Hub-and-Spoke touring forum and a Credit Card touring forum and a Short Tours touring forum and a Long Tours touring forum and an Organised tours touring forum and a Self Sufficient touring forum ... and maybe a Europe touring forum and Asia touring forum and Australian touring forum and a North American touring forum and a South American touring forum and an Africa touring forum ...

Or maybe we should just have threads for each of these.
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Old 12-02-19, 04:56 AM
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I don't have a strong preference one way or the other whether there is a separate forum for bikepacking. I think of what I do as bike touring, but suspect most bike tourists would call much of what I do bikepacking. I'd be fine with a new category or a subcategory, but wouldn't lobby for it myself.

I will say that I really don't see bikepacking as really easily defined as a distinct category. There is so much overlap and blurring of the lines between it and other bike touring. The best definition I can find is:
Bikepacking is a self-supported style of lightly-loaded bicycle touring. Bikepackers typically ride on dirt roads in remote places. A typical bikepacking set-up includes a frame bag, handlebar roll, seat pack and backpack. Bikepackers ride on wide tires and usually have suspension on their bicycles.
That said some bikepackers pack pretty heavy and some bike tourists pack super light. Some bike tourists ride dirt roads in remote places and some bikepackers don't. To me it seems stupid to define the touring style by the bags they choose, so I don't see using that distinction to single out bikepacking as a separate sport. I have experimented with all kinds of crazy baggage setups on and off road and don't think they in any way define the trip.
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Old 12-02-19, 04:59 AM
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its clear that from a PR and whats new thing, bikepacking as a term is what a newcomer will hear, but as others have said, there is a lot more to learn here and get good ideas from experienced folks here other than what bikes and specific bags are suited to backpacking.

from a purely educational and sharing ideas side, I'm sure its best to keep it as is, but the suggestion to add backpacking into the description would be a good idea.

clearly, there are lots of websites that talk about the specifics of bikepacking, but there is still a lot of good stuff to discuss and learn here, as touring or bikepacking is always going to be traveling by bike, and that involves all kinds of stuff.

its all good, all bike stuff is neat, and all traveling bike stuff is neat.

we may not be hip and all, but I know we bring a lot to the table with this and that and that and this.
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Old 12-02-19, 08:01 AM
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Attn MODS...Suggestion for a new forum
Originally Posted by MAK View Post
I think it's time for a new BIKEPACKING FORUM, either as a stand alone or a Touring sub-forum. The bikes are often different, the bags are different, the load carried is different due to bag capacity, etc.. I believe that the information in a focused forum would be extremely helpful.

Does anyone else agree, or am I the only one?

Thank you for any consideration regarding this suggestion.
Originally Posted by CliffordK View Post
I thought a similar question had been proposed in the past, and didn't go anywhere...
Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
I don't have a strong preference one way or the other whether there is a separate forum for bikepacking. I think of what I do as bike touring, but suspect most bike tourists would call much of what I do bikepacking. I'd be fine with a new category or a subcategory, but wouldn't lobby for it myself.

I will say that I really don't see bikepacking as really easily defined as a distinct category. There is so much overlap and blurring of the lines between it and other bike touring. The best definition I can find is:
Bikepackingis a self-supported style of lightly-loaded bicycle touring. Bikepackers typically ride on dirt roads in remote places. A typical bikepacking set-up includes a frame bag, handlebar roll, seat pack and backpack. Bikepackers ride on wide tires and usually have suspension on their bicycles.
That said some bikepackers pack pretty heavy and some bike tourists pack super light. Some bike tourists ride dirt roads in remote places and some bikepackers don't.

To me it seems stupid to define the touring style by the bags they choose, so I don't see using that distinction to single out bikepacking as a separate sport. I have experimented with all kinds of crazy baggage setups on and off road and don't think they in any way define the trip.
Indeed this suggestion was previously made by @MAK on 10/20 on Forum Suggestions & User Assistance. Mine was the only (non-committal) reply:
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
I toured including a cross country ride in the 70's and 80's, and I currently use an Arkel seatpack bikepacking bag on my carbon fiber road bike for long rides as well as commuting (but not bikepacking).

FYA I found this post an informative discussion of the differences:
Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
...Note on nomenclature: “Bikepacking” and “touring” are usually 2 different things. Bikepacking started (and still is for the most part) as a way to ride off-road in remote locations. The gear is meant to take advantage of mountain bikes geometry and keep the gear close to the bike so that it can be ridden on narrow or rough trails.

It’s meant to be more spartan than bicycle touring. It also carries the load higher on the bike which has an effect on the handling. This is typical of off-road bikepacking bikes and roads

Untitled by Stuart Black, on Flickr

Untitled by Stuart Black, on Flickr

Bicycle touring often carries more gear or carries it differently and is usually done on paved roads or at least roads that are in better shape. Because the routes are better, the gear can be carried lower on the bike which makes for a more stable ride. This is my touring bike with a load

2015-04-23 06.25.21 by Stuart Black, on Flickr
˅˅˅˅

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 12-02-19 at 08:25 AM.
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Old 12-02-19, 08:03 AM
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˄˄˄˄
Originally Posted by Machka View Post
If we have a Bikepacking forum, then I think there should be a Hub-and-Spoke touring forum and a Credit Card touring forum and a Short Tours touring forum and a Long Tours touring forum and an Organised tours touring forum and a Self Sufficient touring forum ... and maybe a Europe touring forum and Asia touring forum and Australian touring forum and a North American touring forum and a South American touring forum and an Africa touring forum ...

Or maybe we should just have threads for each of these.
As a similar example, there is a well-subscribed thread on the Northeast Regional Discussion Forum,Metro Boston: Good ride today?,” with over 8500 replies since 2009. I have described it:
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
…See also this very active Northeast Regional Discussion thread”Metro Boston: Good ride today?” to discover many interesting areas, with a lot of great photos; the de facto Boston subforum

That should get you started, and consider me a resource. Welcome to “the Hub.”
Originally Posted by Jim from Boston View Post
...I like to write up my rides, as do others on a local discussion thread here in Boston, and for me, it’s more a journal for myself, than for the amusement of other subscribers, though I hope others would find it interesting.

Of course we in Metro Boston all know the region, and each other, at least electronically, so we are a ready receptive audience for each other.

I have thought of that thread as the cycling equivalent of “apres-ski” after a day on the slopes, where we gather to exchange stories, routes, photos, ribbing, and (?) tall tales.

Last edited by Jim from Boston; 12-02-19 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 12-02-19, 08:09 AM
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Sometimes I would like to make it manditory that when someone writes Bicycle touring, they clarify A) credit card touring B) fully loaded/ self sustained (I hate calling it contained, because you are not a rolling egg). Or c) bikepacking, which in my opinion is a type of credit card touring, unless you want to cut out some elements of fully loaded/ sustained touring.
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Old 12-02-19, 08:19 AM
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I'm not sure what problem is solved by creating a separate forum.

I do see value in updating the description.

Last edited by mev; 12-02-19 at 08:26 AM.
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Old 12-02-19, 08:36 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian25 View Post
Or c) bikepacking, which in my opinion is a type of credit card touring.
You are a in a distinct minority there. An army of one as far as I know.

E.g.:

https://www.adventurecycling.org/adv...-a-definition/

Last edited by indyfabz; 12-02-19 at 08:39 AM.
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Old 12-02-19, 09:10 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian25 View Post
Or c) bikepacking, which in my opinion is a type of credit card touring,
Seriously? I really don't get it when folks say things like that. Credit card touring to me means staying in motels, with hosts, or otherwise avoiding the need to camp and cook. It implies, but doesn't require going light. Some people can and do carry more on a credit card tour than others do for self supported touring.

I find it really annoying when someone calls what I do credit card touring just because I am only carrying a minimal amount of ultra light compact gear despite the fact that even with my light load I am camping and cooking in comfort. The amount of stuff you are carrying has little to nothing to do with whether you are self supported or credit card touring. You could be self supported with 5 pounds of gear or credit card touring with 150 pounds of stuff. The distinction is whether you are self supported, not how much you are carrying.

My personal preference these days is to go with 12-14 pounds of base gear weight (plus any food, fuel, and water). That works for me for pretty much any trip length on or off road and allows for going to fairly remote locations, basically anywhere I am likely to go. I am not inclined to winter tour other than maybe on the Southern tier (which I rode in winter with 14# base gear weight camping and cooking and definitely NOT credit card touring). I did get a room now and then, but camped and cooked the large majority of the time.

My personal preference for a credit card tour would be to go with not much more than a handle bar bag and a little tool bag on the back of the seat, but I have never tried credit card touring.
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Old 12-02-19, 09:57 AM
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I would agree that it's not that useful to have it's own forum. It's not even really that well-defined, as you can be seen in this thread. For some people it's more about the gear, and for some people it's more about the terrain. And even if you agree about which, you probably won't find universal agreement about how to categorize the different options.
Unlike Brian25, I consider bikepacking to be a subset of self-supported touring, and "credit card" touring to be the alternative to self-supported touring.
Currently I run some combination of rear panniers, a handlebar roll, a frame bag, and sometimes some fork cages. Most of that is considered bike-packing gear, but the panniers are generally not. But most of my trips also involve a fair amount of pavement. I did do a week or so largely off-road with a standard bikepacking set-up (saddle bag instead of panniers), but in that case "off-road" was the GAP, a pretty standard touring route for all kinds of self-supported and credit card tours. So was that bikepacking? I don't know. Riding the C&O canal on a later trip felt closer to what I think of when I hear "bike packing," but there were still plenty of standard touring set-ups on that trail (and I was back to hybrid, rear pannier set-up), so was that bikepacking?

Personally I think bikepacking is more about where you ride than it is about how you carry your gear, but talking about bikepacking gear as a subset of touring gear can be helpful. To me, though, actual bikepacking would be: fully supported, mostly off-road, with few available facilities. That is a pretty limited subset of touring, and there are lots of places for overlap with the other types of touring, and lots of overlap in gear, preparation, packing, etc. Not sure what would be gained by trying to put bikepacking discussions in a separate area.
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Old 12-02-19, 10:14 AM
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Originally Posted by Brian25 View Post
Sometimes I would like to make it manditory that when someone writes Bicycle touring, they clarify A) credit card touring B) fully loaded/ self sustained (I hate calling it contained, because you are not a rolling egg). Or c) bikepacking, which in my opinion is a type of credit card touring, unless you want to cut out some elements of fully loaded/ sustained touring.
Why do you consider bikepacking a type of credit card touring?

In my experience riding part of the Great Divide and the Idaho Hot Springs Loop I camped and cooked a higher percentage of the trip than on tours where I rode mainly on roads. There's usually fewer places to eat out and sleep indoors when you're riding in the middle of the countryside.

Also, I don't see the point of a separate bikepacking forum. Bikepacking is just touring.

Last edited by niknak; 12-02-19 at 10:18 AM.
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Old 12-02-19, 10:57 AM
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i consider bikepacking self contained capable as ihave done

Originally Posted by Brian25 View Post
Sometimes I would like to make it manditory that when someone writes Bicycle touring, they clarify A) credit card touring B) fully loaded/ self sustained (I hate calling it contained, because you are not a rolling egg). Or c) bikepacking, which in my opinion is a type of credit card touring, unless you want to cut out some elements of fully loaded/ sustained touring.
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Old 12-02-19, 11:24 AM
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Originally Posted by mev View Post
I'm not sure what problem is solved by creating a separate forum.

I do see value in updating the description.
I have a suggestion, if MAK can pick up Mev's bike and hold both wheels off the ground for one minute, then we'll let him make a new bikepacking section, ok?
(and we can all chip in for the hernia operation ;-)
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Old 12-02-19, 11:32 AM
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Can we kill off Vehicular Cycling once and for all!!!

Two posts in the last year!!!
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Old 12-02-19, 01:10 PM
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I think the touring forum should be removed and replaced with bikepacking to bring in more newbs. Let’s face it. Bike touring is boring. Bikepacking is exciting.

I’ll be bikepacking in the Florida Keys next week.
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Old 12-02-19, 01:44 PM
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Rebranding >> subdividing

It worked for "recreational cyclocross"
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Old 12-02-19, 02:09 PM
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Originally Posted by alan s View Post
I think the touring forum should be removed and replaced with bikepacking to bring in more newbs. Let’s face it. Bike touring is boring. Bikepacking is exciting.

I’ll be bikepacking in the Florida Keys next week.
Does that mean we need to grow beards and cover ourselves with tattoos?
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