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2013 Salsa Vaya and Components: Long Term (7-Year) Review

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2013 Salsa Vaya and Components: Long Term (7-Year) Review

Old 01-09-20, 10:23 PM
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2013 Salsa Vaya and Components: Long Term (7-Year) Review

2013 Salsa Vaya 3: 7-Year Review

Better late than never.

The Vaya is, by far, the bike to which I am most fond of -- I cannot imagine parting with it. It was purchased new as my first “road” bike after spending my youth on mountain bikes measuring air time; I had hoped the stout frame could withstand some abuse, whether gravel roads or forest trails. It has.

Image 1: Nearly stock configuration, with only bolt-on accessories (many since changed or removed); on location at the High Trestle Trail close to Ankeny, Iowa.



Drive Train:

It was and remains a 9-speed with triple chainrings up front. Although the bike was originally shipped with a Deore mountain type rear derailleur to accommodate the 32-tooth cog on the cassette, the crank was still a Sora road set with 52/42/30 chainrings. That crank was changed early on to a Deore Trekking crank, with 48/38/28 rings, then further modified to include a ridiculously low 22-tooth granny chainring.

Originally, the 9-speed drive-train was manipulated with 9-speed MicroShift bar-end shifters. I really enjoyed those, while they lasted. After a few thousand miles of leaning on walls, gravel roads, and banging themselves against the frame, the plastic ‘comfort’ covers broke, revealing an uncomfortable, short, and sharp metal body. Integrated brake-and-shift levers -- brifters -- were expensive and limited in regards to drivetrain compatibility, so I elected to replace the bar-ends with downtube shifters. I started off with SunRace shifters, but they were not as serviceable as I had expected -- most recently, I’ve upgraded to some new-old-stock 105 levers. I expect the new shifters to live with the frame for some time.

Image 2: A much more recent addition, NOS Shimano 105 Levers, easily serviced with only a screwdriver (if that).


Brakes:

The bike also shipped with Avid BB7 Road calipers. Those remain one of the few original parts left bolted to the frame -- a testament to the quality and reliability of the BB7 line. I recently rebuilt those too. It was a bit of an undertaking, but incredible nonetheless; the entire caliper can be disassembled and cleaned with a fine tooth comb (or, you know, a toothbrush). After the rebuild, I expect another 7 years, at least. The BB7’s are relatively intuitive to setup, and even if you get it wrong, they have so many adjustment points you’re bound to get close. The caliper floats on it mounting bolts, both the inboard and outboard brake pads can be dialed in and out to fractions of a millimeter, and I’ve repurposed a set of Jagwire in-line cable adjusters for even finer adjustments (originally meant for the derailleurs, but they were no longer needed with the full-friction shifters).

Image 3: Overhaul performed fall of 2019, the BB7 Road Caliper was fully disassembled and cleaned.


The original brake levers were Tektro RL340 and are among the most comfortable levers I’ve ever rested hands upon. The originals took a beating in use though: the hood rubber had degraded to a stickiness that wouldn’t stay clean for long, a play had developed in the lever bushings, and most uncomfortably, the metal lever ends were gouged and scratched. For the price and longevity, it was a painless decision to replace -- the old levers will go to the local student’s cooperative. A slight change did occur in the RL340 design over the last few years though -- the brake-release pin is now spring-loaded (I’m ambivalent about this, on the originals, I often rode with the levers in the “released” position, giving more lever travel and pull, as providing extra clearance for out-of-true rotors).

Wheels:

The wheels were okay: Formula hubs with Sun SR-25 rims. They lasted a few thousand miles, (but in the end, only a short while longer than the Continental Tour-Ride tires the bike shipped with). Under a modest touring load (two rear panniers, and a front rack with dry sack), the machine-built, factory rear wheel cracked around a spoke hole --- the wheel had been running out of true for some time, with ever-increasing spoke tensions to keep the wheel in line. Those original wheels were replaced with a set of Velocity Dyads; though the front Dyad lives on, the rear eventually went out of true too (I am a bit rough on them, to be fair) and is now an Alex Rims DP20 which has held up surprisingly well.

Contact Points:

Salsa’s choice of contact-parts was well thought out. The original seat was an entry level Velo saddle of a modest width. It was comfortable for the intended, somewhat upright position of the Vaya, and I rode with it for over a thousand miles, and across the state of Iowa. It was eventually replaced by a Brooks Flyer (one part upgrade-itis, one part experimentation). The Brooks Flyer has been comfortable nearly from the start, and has since been both stretched and retensioned. As for the springs, in my experience, absolutely take the sting out of impacts and soften road chatter (I can activate the springs easily just by bouncing my body weight on the saddle).

Image 4: An early image showing a few key modifications: seat, pedals and the trekking crank with 22-tooth granny. Just a few hundred miles before the stock SR-25 rims would finally give up; picture taken resting atop Hoosier Pass, Colorado (was happily climbing in that granny gear).


The Salsa Cowbell 3 handlebar was also a great choice for a touring bike. In fact, that bar has me considering trying various flared bar options on “faster” bikes. Unfortunately, the flared drop was eventually bent inward after some years (probably from repeated topples with a touring load) -- the bent bar was replaced with the same Cowbell. For some reference, the drops are not deep, but they are long. Moving from the furthest stretch from the top of the Tektro hoods to the nearest position on the drops doesn’t change my shoulder position much, but definitely changes the weight distribution on the hands. Stretched forward, in the drops reaching into the hooks however, you can achieve a slightly lower, more aerodynamic tuck (but still nothing race-like).

I started out with flat pedals -- I had never ridden clipless and the expense of pedals and shoes was too much at the time. Flat pedals were fine for biking in the dry and even the rough; after all, I was mountain biking with flats. In the rain, however, the flats were too slick. Rather than buy new shoes and pedals, I elected to add toe-clips with straps. Now, I was secure in the rough and the rain, and could wear almost any shoe I desired. Though I started my experiment in toe clips with a generic pair of VP pedals, I have since upgraded to a pair of MKS Sylvan Touring with stainless steel toe clips, a fully serviceable design (and, as has been remarked elsewhere, they did require servicing right out of the box, for better or worse).

The stem and seat-post are perhaps unremarkable, but a two-bolt design on the saddle rails clamp has been much appreciated.

Image 5: A somewhat recent configuration, taken on RAGBRAI of 2018 in Templeton, Iowa.


Front-End:

The fork has been relatively trouble free (what should you expect, after all?). The overall design has probably been outdone by more recent styles and revisions. The single mid-fork bolt mount might be okay for low-rider pannier racks, but I’ve never used these. Generally, the lack of standardization on fork mounts means that rack compatibility is hit or miss -- newer forks have many more mounting points to overcome this (the Marrakesh has for a few years, now the 2019 Vaya does as well). While the 2013 Vaya is comfortable with some weight up front, it has, in my experience, preferred a more rearward weight and pack bias. I’ve most recently settled on an oversized handlebar bag, and a small platform rack -- lacking both cantilever posts and randonneur style mounts, I’ve settled for P-clamps which I doubt will cause problems for the steel fork.

The headset was a bit disappointing. Though it’s been trouble free, recent attempts to overhaul revealed a set of caged ball-bearings on the upper race with a different, cartridge-style bearing on the lower race. Here again on the front end, a lack of standardization and the cost of individual bearing replacements has me considering a new headset assembly, but I wasn’t prepared to knock out the cups or crown race just yet. For now, I’ll grind another year or two out of the old bearings.

Accessories:

The Vaya is really improved with some modest accessories. The sprung Brooks Flyer, and handlebar bags, as mentioned, provide some comfort for long days. I’m also fond of the Stem Captain clock; the batteries last a year or more at a time, and I never have to worry much about keeping time otherwise (phones and Garmin’s always drain eventually on my tours -- maybe someday I’ll try a dynamo-hub). Another well appreciated add-on is a stem-mounted brass bell, legally required in some jurisdictions, but always useful on crowded multi-user pathways.

Image 6: The cockpit accessories really do make touring a bit more comfortable.


Among the most important accessory is the rear rack. It is a Topeak Super Tourist Disc that is still in production. Panniers clip lower on the rack, thanks to a secondary side rail which also frees up the top rail for easy bungee-cording. The rear strut, rather than being straight, is elongated and “dog-legged”, which prevents the panniers from any wheel contact. Since it was installed, it has only been removed to clean and grease the mounting bolts.

The original (and long-standing) front rack was a Blackburn MT-F, which seems to be out of production these days. It was solid enough to carry some weight, but it was spaced quite wide for the Vaya fork, and I was never happy with the way the struts needed to be forced down to the fork mounts and bolted in place; aside from that, it carried front panniers way too high, and so overly heavy for what I did use it for (a dry sack or two). Since I've long been contented without front panniers for my touring, I’ve settled on a much lighter weight SunRace aluminum front rack with p-clamps and a Ostrich F-104 handlebar bag, largely supported also by a Velo Orange decaleur.

Last but not least, less of an accessory and more of a necessity, is the tool roll. It is a simple design, home made from bulk upholstery fabric and heavy duty thread. Cotton duck tool holders are used inside to protect the outer shell, and the tools within. The roll holds a spare tube or two, a multitool, chainbreaker, schrader-presta adapter, a couple of spare bolts, an adjustable mini-wrench, spoke wrench, and a VP-1 patch kit with tire levers. For a long time, it was clipped to the back of the Brooks, but lately it has been tossed in the handlebar bag, along with a mini-pump (which takes the place of a frame-pump, which does still get some use on longer trips).

Image 7: A Do-It-Yourself Tool Roll, having been everywhere the Vaya has.


Frame:

Of course, the heart of the bike is not its components, but its frame. The Salsa Vaya is, through and through, a touring bike. 450mm chainstays make ample space for panniers -- I’ve never struggled moving the panniers far enough back to avoid heel strikes, and never found the front end lofting from weight over the rear (even on 15% and steeper slopes). For most of its use, the Vaya was fitted with oversized fenders, which were bolted on securely at the chainstay bridge and seatstay bridge. Now living in a drier region of the US, I’ve opted to ditch the fenders to accommodate 47c tires, which still leave plenty of mud clearance (could probably push a 2’’ tire in the fork) -- the clearances are enough that I’m considering taking the Vaya for a trip on the Great Divide (though that’s still a bit of a daydream).

Image 8: The frame during the bike’s most recent overhaul.


The frame is heavy, of course. Unloaded, the frame is stiff too (almost uncomfortably so), but the Vaya really comes alive when packing a bit of weight. With panniers and camping gear (or just a 12-pack of sodas around town), the frame flexes enough to really soften the jolts and judders -- the frame has never felt too flexy though, at least not enough to cause ghost shifting under load (I did have a mountain bike that did that unladen, just from torquing uphill).

The Vaya is long with a relatively significant bottom bracket drop. The length can make tighter turns a bit of an exercise. Yet, compared to riding atop a shorter race bike, the Vaya lets you comfortably “sit in” the bike while it rolls along, relaxing and enjoying a certain straight-line directional stability. It is an easy bike to ride, and one that keeps me coming back (when I’m not trying to chase the pack, at least).

Image 9: A slightly older configuration from 2017, during a motel-style tour of Wisconsin’s many rail-trails.


Conclusions:

Having ridden the 2013 Salsa Vaya across a handful of states, backroads and even singletracks, the frame has become a bit sentimental. Beyond that though, I fear it would be a hard frame to replace, at least exactly as it is now (queue up the list of alternatives, Disc Truckers etc). The new model Vaya’s have done away with the down-tube shift bosses; the Marrakesh has added the complexity of Alternator Dropouts and a nearly proprietary rear rack configuration. The new models are also available in just 6 sizes, compared to the 8 sizes offered in 2013 (and I did travel a few cities over to get a frame just 1cm longer -- a good decision in hindsight).

Image 10: The most recent configuration, with over-sized tires and stripped of fenders -- ready for a more intense backroads tour (GDMBR? Utah? So many options!)


Overall, I’m glad I took the plunge on a disc brake tourer when I did. It stretched my budget at the time, but introduced me to a culture of bicycle traveling I hardly knew existed. What started as a “road” bike endeared me to adding a rack, then some panniers, going camping, then across the state, and finally, across the country. If you’re thinking about touring, or even just commuting, and a late model used Vaya comes up for sale, I would heartily recommend it.
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Old 01-09-20, 11:29 PM
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Neat review but was especially chuffed to see the Golden Arrow shifters. If only 105 continued to make that same level of good looks...ah well. That and 600 Arabesque and 600 Tri Color are some of my favorite vintage Shimano gruppos for looks. I wish they would do a Golden Arrow/Arabesque retro modern thing but I know they probably won't because it doesn't make sense.
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Old 01-10-20, 06:35 AM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes
Neat review but was especially chuffed to see the Golden Arrow shifters. If only 105 continued to make that same level of good looks...ah well. That and 600 Arabesque and 600 Tri Color are some of my favorite vintage Shimano gruppos for looks. I wish they would do a Golden Arrow/Arabesque retro modern thing but I know they probably won't because it doesn't make sense.
Keeping these back for that day the "perfect" frame comes along. Tri-color is my fav.

Bulette, your story of your beloved bike is a great story. Just like an old friend.


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Old 01-10-20, 08:28 AM
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Really neat review- detailing changes over the 7 years of use was cool to see and read. Every part of the bike has a use and your decisions are based on practicality which is great. The tool roll is awesome too!
Based on the unloaded pic on the Trestle and the RAGBRAI pic, I assume you used to live in Central IA. Where are you now(dry climate) and how has the climate and new geography changed your trips?
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Old 01-10-20, 07:43 PM
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Originally Posted by mstateglfr
...I assume you used to live in Central IA. Where are you now(dry climate) and how has the climate and new geography changed your trips?
Close. Growing up I was alongside the Mississippi, then a few years in college in the north-central glacial plains (never realized how much I took the river valley hills for granted until then), and a year working for the Iowa DOT in Ames. I've participated in a few RAGBRAI's, completed a couple river to river (even those years the organizers forgot to include a route to the Missouri Dip...).

Now I'm in Texas Hill Country. Technically, the region I'm in receives a comparable volume of rain per year as does Iowa, but it either comes in drizzles that struggle to keep the pavement wet, or in deluges that make riding a bathtub experience, fenders or not. The topography here has me more weight conscious, thought I don't dare part with my weighty comforts now (the Brooks Flyer comes to mind) -- rather, I just try and appreciate that I get even more use out of the granny gear! There are several other geographical differences as well, some subtle, some not so that affect all of my riding more generally. There are far less gravel road choices where I'm at, but there are also many more lazy, paved creek-side and farm roads (kind of reminiscent of Wisconsin. Outside of the major cities in Texas (which I'm not in), there are very few (if any) multi-user or rail-style trails, but there are also far more wide highway shoulders, and despite any stereotypes, the drivers are mostly cognizant of and courteous to cyclists (at least in my local slice of Texas). And it goes without say -- almost year round riding.

As for touring here -- it's taken me time just to figure out which roads, routes and such were safe and popular here. I've done a few one-nighters, but often meeting up with groups (who handled all the luxuries). I really do hope to head to Utah, or New Mexico and Colorado for a more extensive multi-week tour soon; hopefully a tour with lots of 'wide open spaces', a sprinkling of Parks, and a lot of free camping!
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Old 01-10-20, 09:44 PM
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Originally Posted by UKFan4Sure
Keeping these back for that day the "perfect" frame comes along. Tri-color is my fav.

Bulette, your story of your beloved bike is a great story. Just like an old friend.


You flithy rotten...I have a nearly complete Tri-color STI group but everything has been used and isn't in great shape. You have boxes. Boxes for fox sake.

A friend had an old Proteus frame he was going to butcher into some god awful single speed (I love single speeds and fixed gear bikes) and I said hell no I will buy you what you need and you give me the frame. So I am now in the process of putting it together though I did opt for a much much newer 6600 Crank and a 7600 front derailleur because I had those parts laying about and they were in better condition though I would love to have a complete NIB set to put on something. I also did modern 6800 wheels because I just didn't want to source another Tri-color hub and convert it which I did for a friend. I have a front hub but the rear I didn't want to bother with plus I just didn't want to have to need to build more wheels on top of the 3 sets I needed at the time.

I would say go with the IRD QB-99 Defiant Bottom Bracket, that thing is smooth as all get out. The Shimano one is good in a pinch and certainly the price is right but honestly I think if I could do all my Square Taper purchases over I would do IRD on all of them aside from my Phil Wood frame because that would be sacrilege. Zero issues with the SKF on my Co-Motion and hadn't had issues with the Sugino CB-103 on my Single Speed/Fixed Gear RandoCross Fun Time Machine. but having used the IRD, hoooo boy it is smoother than oiled glass counters.
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Old 11-10-23, 09:41 PM
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Do any of you know what the original MARP was on the Salsa Vaya 2013?
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Old 11-10-23, 10:25 PM
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Nope, but I bought a used one today for $800.
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Old 11-15-23, 10:39 AM
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The red colorway came with bar-end shifters; it retailed around $1399 (known as the '13 Vaya 3). There was also a Vaya 2 in an Orange colorway; it was built with 'brifters' and a sporty set-back seat post, and retailed for $1899.

At the time, the Vaya was the "touring" bike, and while the geometry hasn't changed much, the marketing has. The Vaya today is marketed as a "light-tourer", as Salsa has added the Marrakesh -- a "fully-loaded steel touring bike" -- to their lineup.
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Old 11-15-23, 04:34 PM
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What a fantastic read. Thank you for posting!
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Old 11-17-23, 12:37 PM
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Thank you for a very informative review.
Lately, I have been thinking about putting a touring bike together for multi-day trips at an age of ~70.
I have been bicycling all my life but have never tried longer than a day trip. My initial thoughts were to go with a lighter setup (titanium or aluminum - don’t feel comfortable with carbon fiber frames for a long trip, just in case an accident happens).
My wife jokingly remarked to lose 2-3 lb and save about a couple of grand! 😉
Of course, irrespective of what I build (hopefully this winter), a loaded bike will become heavy enough and the difference in weight of frame of Ti or Al will only be small fraction. Given that rationale, I have two options from my current bicycle. One is an old Trek Cirrus Sport from the 80s. I bought it used from a gentleman in the mid 90s, who toured Europe with this bike and was quite happy with it.
Most necessary items can be easily added to it, except the disc brakes, which I would prefer at this point and I’m not sure about getting fork/frame modified by welding needed attachment points - seems like a recipe for impending future disaster by weakening the steel.
The second alternative is bike I put together about 6 or 7 years ago using a relatively inexpensive Al frame. This has been Assembled as a dirt/gravel bike. It has seen moderate use and held up better than I had initially hoped. It had Velocity wheels 32H laced 2-crossover using Ultegra hubs. It has mechanical disc brakes and Shimano XTR components, except the crank which is DurAce, borrowed from a road bike, run as a single after removing the large 53 ring (realized that I don’t really need it - never going fast enough on gravel to use it). The front derailure was removed within a year after building it. Most of these components were already in my garage or on some old bicycles so major costs were involved in this build. If I use this bike for touring, putting the front derailure back with a second smaller ring will be needed.
On the Al bike, the only major decision for me is whether I go with the current mountain bike type carbon handle bar and keep using XTR shifters/brakes or change to what seems to be more common on touring bikes. I know that I have several sets of frame mounted shifters and at least one DurAce bar end set of shifters from days when I was having back pain and ended up modifying several bikes for a more upright sitting posture.

In reading various opinions, I have also come across the possibility of using rear hubs with internal gears, such as Alpine ot Rohloff. Their proponents consider them to safer and more reliable because they are fully self-contained and protected from the elements, despite the weight penalty. In my case, there would be additional cost - don’t have any in part supply! 😉

I would very much appreciate thoughts of others for guidance. At my age, doing everything by trial and mostly errors, does not seem like the most brilliant option. 😃
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Old 11-17-23, 12:55 PM
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Why not make a new thread, instead of ending it on this one? You'll probably get a lot more people looking at it.
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Old 11-20-23, 12:26 AM
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Originally Posted by schnee
Why not make a new thread, instead of ending it on this one? You'll probably get a lot more people looking at it.
Agreed, I probably should. At this point, I’m still searching and reading through the site… have already gotten some additional ideas. Once done, I’ll post my queries as a separate thread.
Thanks.
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