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Folding rig

Old 02-11-20, 11:44 PM
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Mark Hoaglund
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Folding rig

New here. Lately the climates been -25 to 5 C. Watched a origami engineering YT video which made me think about my local bicycle touring setup. My 50 year old 2.0 lb 37 inch umbrella led me to a 2.2 lb $20 USD camo popup dome tent with floor for two and a 2.0 lb $30 folding butterfly camp chair. Been thinking about a diy hot tent with a 2.5 lb folding wood stove. Bought a couple of cute little $20 folding cook stoves, butane/propane and woodgas. I'm hoping to enjoy the coming three seasons with my folding bike and trailer rig around my watery wooded hilly farming countryside mostly on the rail trail systems. Best wishes.
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Old 02-14-20, 02:13 AM
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Had great fun warming my cold, -22C, hands with a 15 minute hand full of twigs in my wood gas, gasification cook stove. Wish I still had my Dual Fuel cook stove which I used 0.1 US gallons or 24 US cents of unleaded gasoline annually to cook/bake several meals. Looking forward to breaking in my Stanley & Ozark Trail folding mess kits.
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Old 02-14-20, 03:15 PM
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Like this design TOMSHOO woodgas stove and

Unleaded gasoline Dual Fuel 1 Burner Stove
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Old 02-17-20, 07:07 AM
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Where are you located Mark? I can not see it from my iphone and I am out on a trip without a computer.
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Old 02-17-20, 01:23 PM
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Is this what your asking?
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Old 02-18-20, 03:08 AM
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Woodgas stove with a couple pebbles to keep the Stanley from rolling:

Baking With a Stanley Cook Cup
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Old 02-27-20, 10:29 PM
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Originally Posted by PedalingWalrus View Post
Where are you located Mark? I can not see it from my iphone and I am out on a trip without a computer.
His avatar shows "Wisconsin, USA".

Originally Posted by Mark Hoaglund View Post
New here. Lately the climates been -25 to 5 C. Watched a origami engineering YT video which made me think about my local bicycle touring setup. My 50 year old 2.0 lb 37 inch umbrella led me to a 2.2 lb $20 USD camo popup dome tent with floor for two and a 2.0 lb $30 folding butterfly camp chair. Been thinking about a diy hot tent with a 2.5 lb folding wood stove. Bought a couple of cute little $20 folding cook stoves, butane/propane and woodgas. I'm hoping to enjoy the coming three seasons with my folding bike and trailer rig around my watery wooded hilly farming countryside mostly on the rail trail systems. Best wishes.
The folding bike adventures sound pretty cool. I have a Dahon Mariner D8, 20" folder, that I use as my "travel bike". I actually ride it more regularly as well. I did a quick day tour around south central PA in the hills of Appalachia spring 2019 on it. The main drawback to a folder is the gearing in the hills. Unless you have a custom drivetrain (at least a double chain ring) it is going to be hard to get adequate low hill climbing gears. If you don't mind some periods of walking it might not be that big of an issue though.

If your idea of the wood stove and "diy hot tent" is to have heat inside the tent - be very careful. I won't go so far as to say "this is a really bad idea". It is actually very common out west, in Alaska, and Canada. That is how hunting camps are set up - wall tents with wood stoves. I know the "conventional" wisdom is to never have a flame in a tent. Though, there is a major difference in a backpacking grade tent vs a "wall tent". I suggest you really think about what you're trying to do. Trying to get all that between a folding bike and a trailer to cart it around doesn't seem very realistic.

Another consideration for "heating stoves" (inside) is the material they are made out of. Sheet steel will burn out under direct heat from coals/flames fairly quickly. You may only get a few runs out of it before the metal is compromised beyond usability.

One idea is have the stove outside the tent and use ducting with a heat exchanger of some kind then a fan to circulate air. For powering the fan a lithium iron phosphate (LiPo4) 12v class (nominal voltage about 13v) battery and solar panel to charge might work. The lithium batteries are about 1/2 the weight for the same size lead equivalent (SLA, AGM) and you can draw about 70% of the claimed capacity, whereas on the lead equivalents only about 40% is wise. So you get magnitudes more "usable power" out of a lithium battery in comparison to the same weight with any lead battery.

Speaking in terms of practicality - having a way to "heat your tent" is a novel idea, but it is quite impractical. If you were going out to a camp spot to hang out for a week and not move camp the possibilities open up a bit more, but if your mode of transportation is the folding bike the amount of gear you are going to need to pull it off seems counterproductive. A warm sleeping bag, good ground insulation, good dry warm clothes, and a camp fire going outside (taking in to account whether or not that is legal depending on where, time of year, fire danger, etc, etc) is a bit more practical.

The only "heat" I've ever had in a tent is from a candle lantern back when I was in college. The kind I used was an old Weber with a metal lid that acted like a radiator. It was a nice hand warmer and took a lot of the chill off. That means carrying "fuel" = wax candles, as opposed to getting local "fuel" = wood, though. I would still use the candle lantern if the opportunity arose. However, on my rides I use hand warmers down in a pair of Hestra mitts so I just carry a bunch of hand warmers. I can't ride with a candle lantern to heat my hands up, the mitts on with the handwarmers - now that works wonders. And the hand warmers work around camp just as well. If my hands get cold I can just toss the mitts back on and they're toasy roasty.

As someone once told me in regards to backpacking - "hike your own hike". Similarly, "ride your own ride". I've been known to do some pretty off-the-wall things myself - like putting a mast and ham radio antenna on my bike for while I ride. So if you want to do something off-the-wall - do it.

On a side note -

I have a 3 room cabin tent that my dad got when I was about 9 or 10. When I was in college I got in to backpacking with a club and kept in contact with those guys. There was one trip we went to in the Appalachians that had a camp site that really made a mark on me. There was a large rock in a clearing up on higher elevation overlooking a valley. It was a neat spot. We talked about going back there in the winter time one year. The site wasn't very far from an access road - if my memory serves it's about 4 miles. Long story short, it was one of my goals to go out there with the group and set up camp for a week. We would drive in to the trail access then, provided there was snow cover, load our gear on sleds, and hike/snowshoe to the camp - with the cabin tent in tow and a folding wood stove. I fabricated a stove out of sheet metal that collapses down. It needs some work, but the rough idea is there and I did actually test light it one year around thanksgiving. Maybe one of these days I can resurrect the project. As an aside - I lost where that camp site was for quite a long time, however 9 years after we were there my uncle and I were there on a "winter backpacking trip" (wasn't really wintery, but was between christmas and new years one year). There is a site we have been to a few times now close to the one I remembered from college. On one of those trips I went off to find the one from college. It took a while, and took some bushwhacking, but I found it. The site is over-grown now and would take some serious clearing to make in to a usable spot again. So its probably best to just go to the new one. The same theory is there, however - it would be neat to go out there for a week with the cabin tent.
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Old 02-28-20, 09:48 AM
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Originally Posted by KC8QVO View Post

As someone once told me in regards to backpacking - "hike your own hike". Similarly, "ride your own ride". I've been known to do some pretty off-the-wall things myself - like putting a mast and ham radio antenna on my bike for while I ride. So if you want to do something off-the-wall - do it.
A good philosophy!

I don't think the ham idea is that off the wall. My father was really into CB radios in the 70's and we attended many CB jamborees and collected cards (I think they were called QSL cards?... yes, that's what they were!) that people printed to introduce themselves. Other than power issues that would need to be resolved, having a radio like that would be a fun way to talk to, and meet others on the road. Especially truckers.
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Old 02-28-20, 10:52 AM
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I think we need to re-invent battery backs, for biking & hiking & whatever else. Maybe with solar panels as a possible source, at least in sunny climates. 😎

I had to look into this thread, as I used to run folding programs on my computers. Thatís how they mapped the human genome, some few years back, is from thousands of people volunteering processing power. 🙂

A computer that runs folding is called a folding rig, so youíre gonna have to call your folding bike something else. (Just kidding, lol). 😁😉
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Old 02-28-20, 11:07 AM
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Originally Posted by Happy Feet View Post
A good philosophy!

I don't think the ham idea is that off the wall. My father was really into CB radios in the 70's and we attended many CB jamborees and collected cards (I think they were called QSL cards?... yes, that's what they were!) that people printed to introduce themselves. Other than power issues that would need to be resolved, having a radio like that would be a fun way to talk to, and meet others on the road. Especially truckers.
On the amateur/ham side of the fence they are QSL cards. Although I have been around CB since the late 90's, I never got in to the "hobby" aspect of CB (making contacts, "shooting skip", "working DX" etc) - I've only used it for local comms. It is quite possible they borrow a lot of the same terminology from ham.

We hams call talking to other hams "eyeball QSO's". The jamborees sound like fun times.

Since the thread is on "folding stuff" - heres a picture from a trip last Fall on my folder. Yes, you can certainly do loaded trips with small folding bikes. All my day trips are loaded and quite a few of them are on the folder. The bigger the panniers the tricky'er it gets - heel strike on the panniers gets to be a challenge. I've never put front panniers on this bike, just the handle bar bag. It rides very well with a load.

I was using the old mast here. In fact, I may still use this one on the folder. We'll see. I made a batch of these for backpacking - BNC connector at the top for an HT antenna, coax down through the pipe exiting the side. The idea is to stick the bottom of the mast down in an internal frame backpack. There are a couple sizes for the different packs I have. The down side in the woods is going, well.. through the woods. The antennas up higher work a LOT better for comms but also like to snag every tree.




That one is 1/2" PVC with a BNC connector for a HT antenna.

The new one, below, is 1" PVC with an SO-239 connector for a mobile style antenna (pictured here). If you look close you can see a couple radials at a 45deg angle down from the top base of the antenna. The thicker mast is less wobbly and supports the heavier mobile antenna better. With the SO-239 I can adapt down to BNC or SMA for either style HT antenna. The radials give a ground plane under the antenna - a huge help in range. Though, the radials were just held on with ring terminals and the terminals got fatigued and broke on my last ride. So I will make some new ones when I get a chance. This time probably with blocks and set screws so the block takes the load = no terminal to fatigue.

I used the small mast on the big bike on a trip in November where I went to see family for a few days. I had a lot of gear (bags on top of the rack and hanging off the side on top of the full pannier set). There was too much interference with the antenna mast. So after that trip I made the 1" PVC version, but also made a metal base plate for it that extends the top of the rack to the rear - as you see here. That gives me the clearance to strap, for example, my sleeping pad roll on top of the rack and not have the mast interfere with it - the roll will sit with clearance between the seat and the mast.


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Old 02-29-20, 01:24 PM
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No not internet trolling and cycle toured WI MN IA from rail trail to rail trail the past 24 years on various human powered cycles. The State trails this snowy Winter have snowmobile & X-C skiing activity so waiting my turn as Spring warms & the frost comes out of the ground. I go out touring for a couple days to a week leaving from my doorstep. Use to ride from sunrise to sunset and camp at dusk & leave at dawn. I cycle 4-12 hours per day now depending on the season. Thus the reason for inquires into shelters, stoves and Bluetooth speakers after the cycling is done or a rest day. I'm getting cabin fever and the itch for above freezing rail-to-trial friendly temperatures. I had hoped this was a one stop shop for cyclists on Bike Forums.
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Old 02-29-20, 03:05 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark Hoaglund View Post
I'm getting cabin fever and the itch for above freezing rail-to-trial friendly temperatures. I had hoped this was a one stop shop for cyclists on Bike Forums.
I did notice the previous post by seeker333 that appears to have been removed. Sometimes we all have to filter through the "noise" to get to what we're after.

However, I will comment that organizing topics in threads and keeping them there as opposed to starting new threads on similar topics will help. When there are a lot of threads that end up duplicating information it does look a bit "off" and is also hard to follow.

Also - do realize that, as has been discussed in this and other threads, your ideas on gear (shelters, heat, cooking) and ways of going about your type of touring is most certainly not the norm here on Bike Forums. That, I believe, is the root of the question/concern in some of the "noise makers". You are (and I am as well, as already noted) an odd-ball. Don't take that in the wrong way, we all only live once and however odd of a path we want to go down we should go down. Just be prepared for the noise because it isn't mainstream. There is a difference between being an odd fit looking for guidance/assistance and those trying to offer guidance/assistance. I think that is where the previously removed post was getting at with trying to assist you seeming like a waste of their time. I'm not in to politics, however its like a die-hard democrat trying to have a conversation about the same topic as a die-hard republican. Not only is it a challenge for them to have discussion, it is a challenge for them to even understand what they are discussing to begin with. Not picking any sides, the point is - audiences vary. If you are speaking to an audience on a subject that is foreign to them, or outside their wheel-houses, or worse - frowned upon by the audience, you are bound to get noisy replies.

The point in the previous post about the survival forums isn't a bad suggestion. This goes right back to the audience point I made above. Audiences vary - and those audiences have their gathering places. I doubt you will find much common ground with the general population here on BF. To your last sentence in the quote - you may have to filter through different sources (different audiences) that speak the language you are working in to get the replies and guidance that you are looking for. For cycling specific information - BF might be what you want to use and confine your threads/questions/topics to just that over here. Whereas other forums catering to the hunting and survivalist type crowds might be better suited to discuss some of the gear/shelter questions that have come up. Blade Forums for knives is a good one (there is a lot of outdoors/survival discussion on there, not just knives) as is Candle Power Forums (lighting - flashlights mostly, but also a great place for backup power lighting, bicycle lighting, etc as well as outdoors/survival stuff). I'm sure there are a lot of others.

On your topic of human powered vehicles - I was on a trip last Fall and on my longest day on an open rail-trail I saw nothing but 'bents. One gentlemen had his entirely shrouded. All I saw was the top 5-6" of his head sticking out of the top. It looked like he was pedaling a missile going down the trail - and he was scooting. Fastest rider I've ever passed on the trails like that.

Last edited by KC8QVO; 02-29-20 at 03:11 PM.
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Old 02-29-20, 07:25 PM
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Originally Posted by KC8QVO View Post
On your topic of human powered vehicles - I was on a trip last Fall and on my longest day on an open rail-trail I saw nothing but 'bents. One gentlemen had his entirely shrouded. All I saw was the top 5-6" of his head sticking out of the top. It looked like he was pedaling a missile going down the trail - and he was scooting. Fastest rider I've ever passed on the trails like that.
Thanks friend. Liked bicycling so 24 years ago bought a recumbent and wasn't fast but so comfortable started touring self contained while the sun shined then at nighttime enjoying the glowing moonlight, milky way & thunder boomers. Eventually got into coroplast and built a teardrop cargo trailer & bug screen front fairing with a two tone blue & white paint job. Things blossomed from there.
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Old 02-29-20, 07:39 PM
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Ah yes. Coroplast.

You may already have seen these, but this is one example of a "camper" for cycling that was constructed from coroplast.

This Well-Insulated $150 DIY Bicycle Camper Is Just Perfect
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Old 03-01-20, 01:07 PM
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Love Paul Elkins cycle trailer designs you mentioned but wish they'd fold more compactly for this apt. dweller. Bought his coroplast folding kayak & tepee designs and gathered materials https://www.youtube.com/user/paulwelkins/videos for down currant river runs going up river with my folding rig along the rail trails. Aren't I odd but I was self supported and enjoyed those times.
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Old 03-01-20, 02:24 PM
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Thanks for the link. I haven't seen too many of his projects before, however now I have hours of entertainment to look over. That is a dangerous proposition...

I think that guy hit the 5 year old stage and plateaued. Thats not necessarily a bad thing. Hes put ideas together and made them that correlate to ideas I had when I was a kid. Like the boats. We have lots of boats and I've been working on them pretty much all my life. A couple years ago we got another aluminum camp boat that came with a 5hp long shaft kicker motor. It was the perfect motor for our 10ft plastic/composite bass tracker boat - but way too long of a shaft, and the transom mount angled too much. So I built a transom out of pressure treated 2x10 to elevate the motor and give it a better angle. Then I got the idea to put a 9.9 hp motor on it. The angle of the transom is not enough for that motor and, needless to say, it is magnitudes heavier than the 5hp or smaller motors so the boat is very transom-heavy. One of these days I may rebuild the transom with a better angle then see how that works, but I can tell you a 9.9hp motor on that boat is a scary predicament. Even with a 5hp it planes.
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Old 03-01-20, 03:58 PM
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I think you'll enjoy his minimalist projects and Paul Elkins is a:

Boeing retiree finds meaning inventing micro homes & high speed trikes
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Old 03-01-20, 06:10 PM
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Originally Posted by Mark Hoaglund View Post
I think you'll enjoy his minimalist projects and Paul Elkins is a:

Boeing retiree finds meaning inventing micro homes & high speed trikes
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IdyR2zzjGWw&t=602s
This IS NOT minimalist, most touring cyclists have shelter-sleeping-systems that are 2 to 5 lbs, and pack down to a few liters in size.

BTW: I'll admit his engineering is fun and well done. But he brings nothing to the table for practical touring.
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Old 03-02-20, 11:19 AM
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Originally Posted by Mark Hoaglund View Post
I think you'll enjoy his minimalist projects and Paul Elkins is a:

Boeing retiree finds meaning inventing micro homes & high speed trikes
Originally Posted by BigAura View Post
This IS NOT minimalist, most touring cyclists have shelter-sleeping-systems that are 2 to 5 lbs, and pack down to a few liters in size.

BTW: I'll admit his engineering is fun and well done. But he brings nothing to the table for practical touring.
BigAura - Context.

The phrase "minimalist" is being used in both your contexts correctly. However, the context in and of itself is what varies.

That is precisely why I stated the below in a prior post:

Originally Posted by KC8QVO View Post
I'm not in to politics, however its like a die-hard democrat trying to have a conversation about the same topic as a die-hard republican. Not only is it a challenge for them to have discussion, it is a challenge for them to even understand what they are discussing to begin with. Not picking any sides, the point is - audiences vary. If you are speaking to an audience on a subject that is foreign to them, or outside their wheel-houses, or worse - frowned upon by the audience, you are bound to get noisy replies.
So neither of you are incorrect. You are both perfectly correct. You're context, however, is, somewhat, opposite each other.

So, to your point, BigAura - in only the context from which you speak, cycling (and I'll throw in here backpacking also - like the gram-weenies that have tiny packs for multi-day trips) - the idea of a coroplast camper behind a bike does not classify your idea of "minimalist". However, from the perspective of living in a house or an apartment - down-sizing to a bicycle and a bicycle-camper is very much "minimalist". Context. You have to understand the overall umbrella of the context to understand that point. That is where audiences that are tuned in to a specific niche, where they only see what is under their umbrella, have a hard time seeing under another umbrella - until they open their viewpoints to allow themselves to look under other umbrellas.

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Old 03-02-20, 02:57 PM
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Good explanation. I was thinking a little more spacious then a sleeping bag or two wrapped in tarp but like it.
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Old 03-02-20, 03:06 PM
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I didn't find the clearly illustrated $10 plans hard to build two folding coroplast kayaks, 7 foot, 8 lbs with 185 lb capacity each, tied together for gear/supplies and me with reusable zip ties difficult. The 16 lb, 8 foot folding coroplast teepee wasn't hard either with duct tape & tent stacks. Used a utility knife, aluminum yard stick, electric drill and a couple of metal drill bites for a whole lot of fun for the next several years.

Designing a simple solar heater for my pop up, hopefully insulated, tent. So I'll have some fun with my solar projects, woodgas gasification stove interests & solar powered swamp cooler while cycle touring with my folded rig this year. Also looking at testing DIY insect repellent from the 12 or 13th century when the plague hit.
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Old 03-02-20, 04:27 PM
  #22  
stardognine
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Please donít start another plague, even by accident. 🤞 Does that guy have any plans, for turning a bicycle into a flying machine? I might try that, for a change of pace. 🤔😉
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Old 03-02-20, 07:16 PM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by KC8QVO View Post
@BigAura - Context.
The phrase "minimalist" is being used in both your contexts correctly. However, the context in and of itself is what varies.
That is precisely why I stated the below in a prior post:
So neither of you are incorrect. You are both perfectly correct. You're context, however, is, somewhat, opposite each other.
So, to your point, BigAura - in only the context from which you speak, cycling (and I'll throw in here backpacking also - like the gram-weenies that have tiny packs for multi-day trips) - the idea of a coroplast camper behind a bike does not classify your idea of "minimalist". However, from the perspective of living in a house or an apartment - down-sizing to a bicycle and a bicycle-camper is very much "minimalist". Context. You have to understand the overall umbrella of the context to understand that point. That is where audiences that are tuned in to a specific niche, where they only see what is under their umbrella, have a hard time seeing under another umbrella - until they open their viewpoints to allow themselves to look under other umbrellas.
Your point context-is-everything is true. BUT the CONTEXT here IS bicycle-touring not RV camping nor backpacking.

The fact that a rocket can do a US-coast-to-coast trip in less than an 40 minutes is NOT RELAVENT to this site IMO.

PERSONALLY: I have interests outside of touring, some of which are considered mainstream and others that are more esoteric. But I enjoy the BikeForums site BECAUSE of it's focus on particular sub-forums of cycling that I FIND appealing. I agree there is a bubble-aspect to it, but that doesn't limit me --> the UNVERSISE is large (in CONTEXT) as comapred to the the size of the MILKY WAY
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Old 03-03-20, 01:36 PM
  #24  
Mark Hoaglund
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Oh it was the 14th century when the plague and robbers did dead folks homes using parsley and apple cider vinegar to ward off diseased biting insects. I'm thinking dollar store, reusable spray bottle & why dried parsley wouldn't work.
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Old 03-11-20, 08:08 PM
  #25  
Mark Hoaglund
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What if a free energy carbon neutral tax free alternative to the high priced costs and burden of the fossil fuel industrial transport energy monopoly were possible? One step at a time. Thinking of a Waterlily turbine electrified assist ebike attached to my folding rig transport system. Amongst other free energy accessories for my preferential wants & needs out in the boonies & locally.
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