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Rim brakes on a touring bike

Old 05-08-20, 01:41 AM
  #101  
RohloffRoller
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Rim Brakes on a touring bike

I swapped the cantis on my Surly LHT for V brakes.

While the cantis did a good job the V brakes require far less pressure on the levers.

Mike
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Old 05-08-20, 04:10 AM
  #102  
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Personally I much preferred a cheap heavy shimano mini vee to the avid shorty ultimate. The mini vee has the advantage in all but one aspect, which is cable management. With the Vee I was always struggling with how to route the brake housing so it wouldn't interfere with panniers / other stuff on the rack. The avid cantilever solves that problem, but it's just overall a bad brake. More so in fact because it doesn't properly fit for the Kool Stop pads I use. It kinda does, but it's a massive hassle to get a new pad mounted.

A new touring rig with discs front and back cannot come fast enough.
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Old 05-08-20, 04:27 AM
  #103  
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Originally Posted by Trevtassie View Post
Because pads were post mount in the canti era that was another variable that, combined with the straddle cable, could affect the performance of canti brakes, more or less pad projection changed the leverage ratio, plus posts made it more difficult to adjust them, you needed to be an octopus if you didn't know what you were doing.
Not sure this is a fair statement. Early cantis had unthreaded post style pads and so did early v-brakes. I'd think the choice of style of pad had more to do with the vintage of the brake than the style of the brake. so mentioning it as a problem of cantis isn't really fair. I do agree that the pads were s super huge pain to adjust on my early cantis and they were high end MTB stuff, but I'd think I'd have had the same issues with a similar vintage v-brake if they were out at the time (not sure if they were yet). I did learn a few tricks over time that made it easier, but never did grow to like the design when it came to the pad adjustment. Later cantis that I have owned or worked on didn't have those problems and adjustment was easy peasy.
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Old 05-08-20, 06:51 AM
  #104  
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Originally Posted by RohloffRoller View Post
I swapped the cantis on my Surly LHT for V brakes.

While the cantis did a good job the V brakes require far less pressure on the levers.

Mike
I too switched one of my dropbar MTB bikes to V-brakes for winter riding. I find the V-brakes make a HUGE difference in snow or slush over the properly setup cantilever brakes I had on that bike before.

Cheers
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Old 05-08-20, 12:32 PM
  #105  
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Like Stae, my "new" cantis from about 10 years ago are way easier to set up and change pads than the 1990 era ones on my Caravan, specifically because each side had it's own little spring thing, the old cantis tended to have them only on one side.
The new ones use those cartridge holders which is nice, pull out safety pin and slide out old pad , forcefully push in new pad and put back safety pin thing.
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Old 05-08-20, 05:31 PM
  #106  
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Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
Not sure this is a fair statement. Early cantis had unthreaded post style pads and so did early v-brakes. I'd think the choice of style of pad had more to do with the vintage of the brake than the style of the brake. so mentioning it as a problem of cantis isn't really fair. I do agree that the pads were s super huge pain to adjust on my early cantis and they were high end MTB stuff, but I'd think I'd have had the same issues with a similar vintage v-brake if they were out at the time (not sure if they were yet). I did learn a few tricks over time that made it easier, but never did grow to like the design when it came to the pad adjustment. Later cantis that I have owned or worked on didn't have those problems and adjustment was easy peasy.
The reason I mentioned post mounts is that with cantis a small movement on the pads away from the arm towards the rim had a much bigger effect on the angle of actuation than it does on V brakes. It's why V-Brakes were known as linear pull, because the pad setting didn't make much difference to the amount of cable needed to actuate the brakes. Canti characteristics could be changed a lot, just by altering the pad position.
Technically, Cantis should be exactly the same in power and feel as V-Brakes but often aren't because setting them up is too damn hard with all the different parameters. That's been eased by the switch to bolt mount pads, but the set up of the straddle cable still affects things. That's one of the reasons Shimano introduced the Y Link straddle, with fixed lengths. But even then, you need to get the right one, as they come in different lengths. Sheldon Brown had a lot to say about this! https://www.sheldonbrown.com/cantile...tml#definition
https://www.sheldonbrown.com/canti-trad.html
I guess the upshot is... if you want to start touring and have a bike with Cantis, learn about them, set them up properly and go. Eventually upgraditist may hit, so change them then....
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Old 05-09-20, 03:50 AM
  #107  
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I changed 1 bike from cantis to BMX V brakes - they have a shorter arm length than MTB V brakes, so you get a bit more control, but the cable does hang lower so might not work with bigger tires
The bite was incredible, and took some getting used to, but its about the best brake I've ever had on a rim brake road bike.
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Old 05-09-20, 08:24 AM
  #108  
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My v brake bike always seemed more "on-off like" compared to my better cantis. Have to be more delicate with hard applications of front unloaded. But loaded it's nice with stronger braking with less finger pressure.

my take kinda fits with the accepted take on v brake feel vs cantis.
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Old 05-10-20, 03:46 PM
  #109  
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I've done some heavy tours on old bikes with caliper brakes. People have been touring on cantis since the dawn of bike touring, I would say you're fine, but if you're going for a new build, disc brakes are definitely the way to go.
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Old 05-25-20, 12:19 PM
  #110  
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Originally Posted by 3aughtmaxon View Post
I've done some heavy tours on old bikes with caliper brakes. People have been touring on cantis since the dawn of bike touring, I would say you're fine, but if you're going for a new build, disc brakes are definitely the way to go.
For awhile I was holding out on disc brakes. In terms of stopping ability I think V-brakes work just as well, but in the long-run prefer discs since they're so much easier on wheels. Paired with disc brakes a good wheel-set will last almost indefinitely.

If I already had a frame I liked with rim brakes I doubt I'd go through the expense and trouble of getting another bike just for disc brakes, but when shopping of a new or recent used bike they're the way to go.
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Old 05-28-20, 07:40 PM
  #111  
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Originally Posted by DeadGrandpa View Post
I would add that disc brake pads will be less effective if you let chain lubricant get on them or the rotors. Don't ask me how I know this.
On my Alaska to Argentina ride I had to replace a brake cable on my mechanical disc brakes. In a small town in Ecuador there was one bike mechanic, obviously without a lot of experience. He insisted on changing the cable himself... took him two hours. When he finished he cleaned up by spraying the rotor with WD40. Possibly even worse than chain lube.
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Old 05-28-20, 08:09 PM
  #112  
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Originally Posted by pataspen View Post
On my Alaska to Argentina ride I had to replace a brake cable on my mechanical disc brakes. In a small town in Ecuador there was one bike mechanic, obviously without a lot of experience. He insisted on changing the cable himself... took him two hours. When he finished he cleaned up by spraying the rotor with WD40. Possibly even worse than chain lube.
muy chistoso!
that's really funny.
Because I do all my mechanical work (nearly all) I'm pretty picky of who I let touch my bike. Last time in Mexico a nice old guy did an adjustment on my front hub, but I could tell he knew what he was doing and I watched him do it and felt the cones myself by hand to be sure. Really nice fellow who took the time before heading off to his mid day meal.

I'd love to do Columbia and Ecuador one day.
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Old 05-29-20, 09:41 AM
  #113  
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A lot of people feel that you do not need to bring spare cables, but I always carry a spare brake and shifter cable on tour. I can't remember the last time I needed to replace a brake cable, last bad shifter cable was about eight years ago, so unlikely that they will be needed on a tour, but they weigh almost nothing so there is no reason to leave them out. Most trips I do not open my first aid kit either, but still carry one.

I have only had one tour with a disc brake, but I pack spare pads for the brake.
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Old 05-29-20, 04:50 PM
  #114  
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Originally Posted by Chrisp72 View Post
Hello all!

I wanted to get some opinions on what brakes work for the bike you're riding. I have an older bicycle that uses canti's to stop. Is this enough or should I at least upgrade to V brakes? I've got new Kool Stop pads on my cantis and they're fairly well set so I think it should be decent for loaded touring. I would consider disk brakes for a bikepacking rig but I don't know if they're a good upgrade for the road...
Rim brakes are fine , I did my tours in the mostly dry weather , Irish coast the occasional exception Drop bars, cable operated cantilevers have been fine..
My purchase of a Koga Trekking bike made me understand why the Magura Hydraulic rim brakes have been popular for 25 years ..
they go on cantilever/V brake posts.. but dont offer the drop bar masters.. (figure 8 bend trekking bars use MTB type levers , so its all good,)
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Old 05-29-20, 04:52 PM
  #115  
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Yea disc brake pads dont work well if the R'off oil leaks out.. now I know next oil change put less in.. 15 rather than 25ml.
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Old 05-29-20, 05:29 PM
  #116  
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Yea disc brake pads dont work well if the R'off oil leaks out.. now I know next oil change put less in.. 15 rather than 25ml.
Thorn sells a lot of Rohloff bikes (as you already know) and they recommend 15ml lube oil instead, they have recommended that for years.

I have not seen you post anything in months, welcome back.
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Old 05-29-20, 05:43 PM
  #117  
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FIETS!!

HE LIVES. HE LIVES

yup, welcome back. Hope you are well and safe.
​​​​​
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Old 05-29-20, 05:44 PM
  #118  
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I was in Time Out.
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Old 05-29-20, 07:31 PM
  #119  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
A lot of people feel that you do not need to bring spare cables, but I always carry a spare brake and shifter cable on tour. I can't remember the last time I needed to replace a brake cable, last bad shifter cable was about eight years ago, so unlikely that they will be needed on a tour, but they weigh almost nothing so there is no reason to leave them out. Most trips I do not open my first aid kit either, but still carry one.

I have only had one tour with a disc brake, but I pack spare pads for the brake.
ditto schmitto for me too on all accounts, have never had to change out a cable on a tripbut carry one of each always too
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Old 05-29-20, 07:46 PM
  #120  
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
I was in Time Out.
oh, didn't know.
folks have asked about you and wondered if you were alright.
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Old 05-29-20, 08:18 PM
  #121  
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
I was in Time Out.
Well, welcome back!
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Old 05-30-20, 04:50 AM
  #122  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
A lot of people feel that you do not need to bring spare cables, but I always carry a spare brake and shifter cable on tour. I can't remember the last time I needed to replace a brake cable, last bad shifter cable was about eight years ago, so unlikely that they will be needed on a tour, but they weigh almost nothing so there is no reason to leave them out. Most trips I do not open my first aid kit either, but still carry one.

I have only had one tour with a disc brake, but I pack spare pads for the brake.
As long as you carry a spare shifter and brake cable you'll never need it. Just wiat until the one time you forget on of them then. Ol' Man Murphy will surely strike then. LOL

Back around 1986 I was riding across the Danforth Street Viaduct in Toronto Canada and my front wheel hit a glancing blow to a piece of metal debris on the road. the metal piece flipped up and hit a rivet on a chain link just perfectly so as to drive the rivet out just far enough that the chain would no longer go through the front derailleur cage. No chain tool that day. I've carried one ever since and the only time I've needed it was... wait for it... the one time I forgot to move it to the bike i was riding that day. Fortunately I did have a small vice-grip and a small washer and was able to push the chain pin back in and ride slowly home that day.

Cheers

Edit. that was a 7-speed chain with slightly protruding rivets. The odds of that happening must be astronomical.

Last edited by Miele Man; 05-30-20 at 06:39 AM. Reason: Added comment
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Old 05-30-20, 05:59 AM
  #123  
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Originally Posted by Chrisp72 View Post
Hello all!

I wanted to get some opinions on what brakes work for the bike you're riding. I have an older bicycle that uses canti's to stop. Is this enough or should I at least upgrade to V brakes? I've got new Kool Stop pads on my cantis and they're fairly well set so I think it should be decent for loaded touring. I would consider disk brakes for a bikepacking rig but I don't know if they're a good upgrade for the road...
FWIW, I have bicycled across Australia on the Nullabore route and the Savannah Way starting in 2006. My v brakes and 3X9 gearing system work fine - as do my 48 spoke front/rear 26" wheels ...
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Old 05-30-20, 12:28 PM
  #124  
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Originally Posted by fietsbob View Post
Yea disc brake pads dont work well if the R'off oil leaks out.. now I know next oil change put less in.. 15 rather than 25ml.
Welcome back!!
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Old 05-30-20, 12:39 PM
  #125  
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Waving from the Upper left coast..
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