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Why isn't touring just called bikepacking?

Old 08-27-20, 03:58 PM
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chrishooper78
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Why isn't touring just called bikepacking?

See above.
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Old 08-27-20, 04:45 PM
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Originally Posted by chrishooper78 View Post
See above.
Because bicycle touring came first. “Bikepacking” is a relatively recent term and is really different from “touring”. They share some similarities but the bikepacking term was coined to describe mountain biking combined with bicycle touring. The bags for bikepacking are different. Rather than being held on racks that stick out to the side, the bags are closer to the frame so that they don’t snag on rocks and branches that you aren’t likely to encounter while touring on a smooth road.

Bikepacking bags for off-road touring are far superior to traditional panniers and other methods of carrying gear...in off-road situations. I’ve off-road toured with panniers in 1986

me old by Stuart Black, on Flickr

It was not the best way to go. The load was a lot heavier than it is now and the panniers were simple hook panniers with a bungee cord to keep them on the frame. They had a nasty tendency to go rolling down hills are random times, usually after hitting a bump at fairly high speeds.

I’ve also off-road toured with trailers. Actually with a couple of different types. I’m not a huge fan of those either. I had one that attached to the seat post and it tended to lift the rear of the bike with braking. On a steep rocky downhill, the last thing you want is to have the rear end lifted. The one below (shown on the North Rim of the Grand Canyon) is lower and attaches to the quick release but it has it’s own issues. It still pushes the rear around and lifts it just a little. The pushing is the problem because it pushes you off the line and makes steering less predictable. Still not a good thing.

Additionally, there is another tire (of a different size) to worry about. This trailer also doesn’t work with the Breezer style dropouts on my current mountain bike.
DSCN0027 by Stuart Black, on Flickr

Bikepacking bags are better then the alternatives but I do have some issues with them. The load is carried very high. That can cause handling issues. The bags attach to the bike very well and don’t bounce off but if they have to be removed, the process is a lot longer and the bags are a very weird shape which makes carrying them more difficult. For example, the bike below was shuttled to the start of my ride on a bus (we have a state wide service through our Colorado Department of Transportation). However, the bike had to go on the front of the bus that was being driven at 65mph. I had to remove the harness, the seat bag and the two leg bags because the driver was afraid that they would blow off. Along with my helmet and a Camelbak, I had to get all that stuff into a narrow bus. The bags aren’t easy to carry as they don’t have carrying straps.

The space is somewhat limited as well. When I’m doing backcountry tours, I carry freeze-dried because I’m not likely to run across a grocery store very often. Because I just need to boil water, I also carry minimal cooking equipment. I’m not going to be cooking meals but I’m also probably not going too be out for more than 5 to 6 nights.



This is a traditional touring set up. If I’m going to be going for weeks on end, this is the bike I choose. I can carry cooking gear, food (I always carry 3 days worth) and clothes that I need...included some off bike clothes (minimal). More importantly, if I have to remove the bags for transportation, they are much easier to remove and easier to carry. The load is only marginally larger but it is distributed better. The load is lower and the bike handles better.

2015-05-03 11.38.54 by Stuart Black, on Flickr
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Old 08-27-20, 05:20 PM
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Because back when bicycles were first use people said they went touring with their bicycle. Touring is associated with side mounted panniers and bike packing doesn't use those so as to make the loaded bicycle narrower for going along narrow trails.

Two different terms to descride to different forms of bike use.

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Old 08-27-20, 06:40 PM
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Why not basketpacking? Bikepacking is so yesterday.
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Old 08-27-20, 06:50 PM
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Would you call this bikepacking? No frame bag, no saddle bag.



I consider it bike packing if you are not using racks, thus I would consider saddle bag, frame bag and handlebar harness on a road bike like below to be bikepacking, but some would say even that is not bikepacking because they think bikepacking is only done on dirt, not pavement.

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Old 08-27-20, 06:57 PM
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Cogent responses.

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Old 08-27-20, 06:57 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
I consider it bike packing if you are not using racks, thus I would consider saddle bag, frame bag and handlebar harness on a road bike like below to be bikepacking, but some would say even that is not bikepacking because they think bikepacking is only done on dirt, not pavement.

Of course you know that I’m in the camp that would not call this “bikepacking”. Yes, you are using bikepacking bags but that doesn’t make it “bikepacking”. I wouldn’t call the picture of me from 1986 “bikepacking” because the term hadn’t been coined yet.
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Old 08-27-20, 07:06 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Of course you know that I’m in the camp that would not call this “bikepacking”. Yes, you are using bikepacking bags but that doesn’t make it “bikepacking”. I wouldn’t call the picture of me from 1986 “bikepacking” because the term hadn’t been coined yet.
The OP asked a question, my response was directed to the OP. I have better things to do than arguing about the definition of bikepacking.
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Old 08-27-20, 07:14 PM
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As others have said, the term "touring" was around first. As to why they started using "bike packing" , it probably has as much to do with marketing and opening up a new stream of revenue to the industry.
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Old 08-27-20, 07:30 PM
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Originally Posted by chrishooper78 View Post
See above.
How far above, Chris? How far?

Call it whatever you want to call it. Heck call it a frame pump if you will. As long as you take a butt load of crap and throw it on your bike on a rack or in bags or both and ride somewhere and sleep somewhere and then bike back or continue biking you are doing something beyond riding a bike and that is good stuff!
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Old 08-27-20, 08:19 PM
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Originally Posted by ups View Post
As others have said, the term "touring" was around first. As to why they started using "bike packing" , it probably has as much to do with marketing and opening up a new stream of revenue to the industry.
aahh..yep.

The largest/easiest population of consumers to sell bike stuff to is the group that already has bike stuff. The problem is, if they already have the bike stuff you're trying to sell..well..then they won't buy more bike stuff. The key is to carve out(create, invent, redefine, market into existence even if it doesn't exist) a block of new bike stuff that the consumers don't have..and being good consumers, they'll then line up to buy new bike stuff to add to their pile of old bike stuff.

rinse..

repeat..
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Old 08-27-20, 08:45 PM
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Originally Posted by fishboat View Post
aahh..yep.


The largest/easiest population of consumers to sell bike stuff to is the group that already has bike stuff. The problem is, if they already have the bike stuff you're trying to sell..well..then they won't buy more bike stuff. The key is to carve out(create, invent, redefine, market into existence even if it doesn't exist) a block of new bike stuff that the consumers don't have..and being good consumers, they'll then line up to buy new bike stuff to add to their pile of old bike stuff.


rinse..


repeat..

No.

The hipsters who are into bike packing, don't have bikes that will take racks and panniers. Besides that gear is totally uncool.


The geezers who have bike toured all over the world and have panniers, racks, handle bar bags etc. see no need to buy totally new gear to do the same activity.


A friend attended a presentation at a local gear store about bike packing.

After the presentation she asked a lot of questions like "Why couldnt I just use the panniers I already have for this trip? If the handlebar roll interferes with the brake levers, why dont I just use a handlebar bag?

She decided not to go on the trip. "Those people annoy me", she said.
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Old 08-27-20, 10:07 PM
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Catch phrases, marketing and perception.
Younger folks and hip oldsters do not want to buy a touring bike, but they will buy a bikepacking bike
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Old 08-27-20, 10:25 PM
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touring sounds cooler. kinda like descending sounds better than (going) downhill.
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Old 08-27-20, 10:32 PM
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Originally Posted by ups View Post
As others have said, the term "touring" was around first. As to why they started using "bike packing" , it probably has as much to do with marketing and opening up a new stream of revenue to the industry.
While bikepacking equipment has been borrowed by people who want to ride marginal bikes for touring and carrying stuff that is loaded too high for such twitchy bikes, bikepacking gear did originally have a purpose. As I stated above, I’ve tried all the methods of carrying stuff off-road and bikepacking gear is by far the best tool for the job. Revelate Designs’ development of bikepacking gear really was revolutionary for off-road touring. Prior to 2007 the only options were trailers or panniers both of which have issues as I detailed above. For road touring, bikepacking gear is a poor substitute for panniers.

Originally Posted by skookum View Post
No.

The hipsters who are into bike packing, don't have bikes that will take racks and panniers. Besides that gear is totally uncool.


The geezers who have bike toured all over the world and have panniers, racks, handle bar bags etc. see no need to buy totally new gear to do the same activity.


A friend attended a presentation at a local gear store about bike packing.

After the presentation she asked a lot of questions like "Why couldnt I just use the panniers I already have for this trip? If the handlebar roll interferes with the brake levers, why dont I just use a handlebar bag?

She decided not to go on the trip. "Those people annoy me", she said.
I’m not a hipster. I am a geezer. But I do off-road touring and I have few issues with bikepacking gear for that purpose. I’m not about to put the bags on my Dean El Diente SL and go touring with it, however. I have an excellent...and very stable... Cannondale touring bike for that purpose.
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Old 08-27-20, 10:53 PM
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"Why isn't touring just called bikepacking?

well then,

"Why isn't bikepacking just called touring?"
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Old 08-28-20, 12:36 AM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
While bikepacking equipment has been borrowed by people who want to ride marginal bikes for touring and carrying stuff that is loaded too high for such twitchy bikes, bikepacking gear did originally have a purpose. As I stated above, I’ve tried all the methods of carrying stuff off-road and bikepacking gear is by far the best tool for the job. Revelate Designs’ development of bikepacking gear really was revolutionary for off-road touring. Prior to 2007 the only options were trailers or panniers both of which have issues as I detailed above. For road touring, bikepacking gear is a poor substitute for panniers.



I’m not a hipster. I am a geezer. But I do off-road touring and I have few issues with bikepacking gear for that purpose. I’m not about to put the bags on my Dean El Diente SL and go touring with it, however. I have an excellent...and very stable... Cannondale touring bike for that purpose.
Look at images from the late 1800s and early 1900s of bicycles loaded for trips and you'll see t hat they look almost identical to the so called bike packing setups. What is old is new again.

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Old 08-28-20, 12:37 AM
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Originally Posted by robow View Post
"Why isn't touring just called bikepacking?

well then,

"Why isn't bikepacking just called touring?"
Or why isn't bikepacking the art of packing a bike for transit in a vehicle?

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Old 08-28-20, 12:42 AM
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I still think that the two terms are used to differentiate between two different types of bicycle touring. Touring is used more for open spaces with racks and panniers and bikepacking is used more for trails and more confined areas where panniers and racks might get snagged. Then people took there bikes off-road and used the narrow trails stuff to pack their gear and still called it bikepacking. After all, t hey were packing the bike with stuff.

Calling certain gear bikepacking gear does avoid confusing it with open roads touring gear.

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Old 08-28-20, 03:22 AM
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I feel like I just got some great answers to a question I've never had
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Old 08-28-20, 03:52 AM
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Originally Posted by chrishooper78 View Post
See above.
Do not try and pack the bike, that's impossible.
Instead, only try to realize the truth...there is only riding with stuff.
Then you will see it is not the bike that packs, it is only yourself.

https://tse3-mm.cn.bing.net/th/id/OI...V?pid=Api&rs=1
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Old 08-28-20, 04:03 AM
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Bikepacking is an offshoot and a subset of touring. It is all touring. Personally I call it touring even when I go off road and even if I use bike packing style bags.
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Old 08-28-20, 04:34 AM
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There's a recurring theme in this thread that "bikepacking" is a new term. It isn't. It's just being used differently now. Cannondale used the term "bikepacking" in their catalogs when they first started making panniers in the early 70's. In fact, their panniers were originally called "bikepacks". See, for example, the 1973 catalog here:
https://vintagecannondale.com/year/1973/73summer.pdf

For whatever reason, the term didn't really catch on until people started using it more recently.
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Old 08-28-20, 05:04 AM
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Originally Posted by AeroGut View Post
There's a recurring theme in this thread that "bikepacking" is a new term. It isn't. It's just being used differently now. Cannondale used the term "bikepacking" in their catalogs when they first started making panniers in the early 70's. In fact, their panniers were originally called "bikepacks". See, for example, the 1973 catalog here:
https://vintagecannondale.com/year/1973/73summer.pdf

For whatever reason, the term didn't really catch on until people started using it more recently.
The term may not be as new as we suggest, but bike touring predates that catalog by quite a bit. Like almost a century. So the term bikepacking probably is pretty new if that catalog is an early example.

According to at least one source "By 1878, riding a bicycle for pure enjoyment was well enough established in Britain to lead to the formation of the Bicycle Touring Club, later renamed the Cyclists’ Touring Club, which is still in existence to this day and remains the oldest national tourism organisation in the world." That came from https://bicycletouringpro.com/histor...icycle-touring That may not have meant touring as we mean it, but "With the birth of the safety also came the start of long-distance bicycle touring. In July of 1896, a man by the name of John Foster Fraser and two close friends set off from their homes in Britain and traveled around the world on their bicycles. They covered approximately 19,237 miles in a period of two years and two months, traveling through seventeen countries and three different continents." (again from the same source)
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Old 08-28-20, 05:22 AM
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Originally Posted by staehpj1 View Post
The term may not be as new as we suggest, but bike touring predates that catalog by quite a bit. Like almost a century. So the term bikepacking probably is pretty new if that catalog is an early example.

According to at least one source "By 1878, riding a bicycle for pure enjoyment was well enough established in Britain to lead to the formation of the Bicycle Touring Club, later renamed the Cyclists’ Touring Club, which is still in existence to this day and remains the oldest national tourism organisation in the world." That came from https://bicycletouringpro.com/histor...icycle-touring That may not have meant touring as we mean it, but "With the birth of the safety also came the start of long-distance bicycle touring. In July of 1896, a man by the name of John Foster Fraser and two close friends set off from their homes in Britain and traveled around the world on their bicycles. They covered approximately 19,237 miles in a period of two years and two months, traveling through seventeen countries and three different continents." (again from the same source)
I wasn't clear. I didn't mean to imply that bikepacking is not a newer term than touring, just that it wasn't newly coined to refer to an activity different from touring with panniers, which is what others seem to be suggesting, unless I'm misunderstanding them.
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