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1 x 9 for touring , 32T cog 11-42 cassette

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1 x 9 for touring , 32T cog 11-42 cassette

Old 11-29-20, 04:41 PM
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1 x 9 for touring , 32T cog 11-42 cassette

Hi

I am planning a touring bike build on 700c wheels. I have a strong urge to make it a 1x. I like 1x on my mountain bike , its the simplicity I enjoy plus a small weight save and less clutter on the bike.

Microshift have a 1x9 groupset with a 11-42 cassette.

I have being experimenting with my current bike and when on the middle ring a 32T I would rarely need to go to the 11 on the rear and would be happy to coast if moving that fast.

32T front 42 on rear would be enough of a climbing gear.

Has anyone else got a set up like this or is it a bad idea for some reason I have not foreseen?
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Old 11-29-20, 04:54 PM
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I have done 1x8 11-40 with a 42 crank. It wasn't bad, fine for light loads but I suspect I would suffer a bit with weight up long hills. True, a 32 would be better but I would find the lack of top end annoying.


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Old 11-29-20, 08:24 PM
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I have two derailleur touring bikes and a Rohloff touring bike. The derailleur bikes have a total range of 558 percent and the Rohloff bike has a range of 526 percent. There are times I wish the Rohloff bike had a wider range than it has.

An 11/42 1X system would have a range of 381 percent. That is a hair better than my road bike but narrower than my rando bike. I think you would be disappointed with the total range.

That said, you did comment that you have been assessing this with your current chainrings and you think it will work for you. So, maybe it will. But I know that it would not work for me.
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Old 11-29-20, 10:51 PM
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Mine is only set for bikepacking, so still a decent amount of weight but not true loaded touring, the wife does make me carry the tent. I ride a double with 32/48 11-36; so far I haven't needed easier but I also haven't tried any real mountains with it either, some of the shorter punchier climbs I have run into made things fairly close a time or two. But I couldn't image limiting myself to the 32t ring. Running along places like the Erie Canal or near the ocean there's been times when the wind gave me enough boost to cruise at 20mph even with a load and that does require that 48 for me. One ride I did had 10miles of short, steep climbs and descents with no real flats, just over a series of drumlins. 32/36 by the top of every climb and 48/11 to get up to 40mph on every descent, being stuck with 32/11 would have made the slower speeds into the climb a misery.
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Old 12-23-20, 06:23 AM
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I toured half Europe with a 11-42 10v setup, so I guess you can do good with 9v, althoung I'd go for 11-40 to even the huge gap with the biggest cog.
Sunrace make a cheap 11-40 9v cassette with 21% max gap which is acceptable to me.

The key is to pick the right chainring size! 32t works for me but 30t could be better, it still gives 33km/h at 90rpm which is enough.

Only thing you need to check is if your RD can jump as far as 40t.
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Old 12-23-20, 08:33 AM
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Hey there Mr Ham, what's the gear range in gear inches of this proposed setup?
Even with 700 wheels, a 32/42 must give maybe 20 gear inches as a low, which is good.

I ride a bike in winter that I really only use the 32 and 22 ring, and while this bike doesn't have a Speedo, it's top end is not great, I wouldn't want it on a touring bike.

doesn't really make sense to me not to use a double or triple but let's face it, you've got your mind set most likely.

again, what's your gear inch range please.
oh, and honestly, you're going to have some really big jumps between gears, which from experience of many decades riding, would really piss me off, especially with a touring load- you know, spinning too high in one gear and lugging your knees in the next gear up..... this is waaaaaay more important than a lower top end by far, in my opinion.
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Old 12-23-20, 11:00 AM
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If it works for you then that's all that matters. 78 gear inches at the top would be unacceptable for myself. If you like the simpler set up and appearance of 1 by, then great, but don't let the weight savings play a part in your decision when we're talking about touring.
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Old 12-23-20, 11:20 AM
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I won't give you a conclusive answer but I will give you something to compare to

On a dedicated touring bike I run a 22-32-44 front and 14-28 (14,15,16,18,20,22,24,28) cog. I use this bike almost exclusively for bike travels, and only on occasion on commuter duty (when the commuter is out for maintenance). I've used this configuration in Scotland and Tuscany, among other places, and the occasions on which I had to push the bike by foot can be counted on a single hand. As long as it's paved and reasonable*, I can make it. 44/14 is more than fast enough for when loaded, I am actually unlikely to use it, mostly switching between the 15,16 and 18 on flat. Unloaded, I can bottom it out, but then again if I want to go fast I have other bikes and gearings for that.

Simply looking at the ratios extremes, your 32/42 would be easier, albeit marginally, than my 22/28 (0,76 vs 0,79). Your 32/11 would sit between my 44/16 and 44/15. Thus not a particularly fast top gear. If you can live with that, and the wide spacing cassette, I see no issue.

*everybody has their own requirements. If one's are to be able to haul a fully loaded bike on a 30% gradient than my whole arguments sounds as horse manure, but hey, that's not the kind of roads I built the bike around.
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Old 12-23-20, 11:55 AM
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Originally Posted by djb
oh, and honestly, you're going to have some really big jumps between gears, which from experience of many decades riding, would really piss me off, especially with a touring load- you know, spinning too high in one gear and lugging your knees in the next gear up..... this is waaaaaay more important than a lower top end by far, in my opinion.
I'm totally sold on the 1x for touring, in my experience a 20% gap is acceptable

A short range 14-28 cassette (with gaps as low as 7%!) always makes me think whether I'm pushing the right gear, switching over and over without settling
Lots of double/triple shfiting as soon as the road slope a little bit or the wind blows a fart

go 1x without looking back, just pick the right chainring!
you can also pick an oval, which may help a bit esp if you're a masher
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Old 12-23-20, 12:05 PM
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https://www.cyclemonkey.com/schlumpf-drive-haberstock

The problem with 1x is the range is more of an either/or situation. You picks what you gets. For obvious reasons the 500+% range of a Rolhoff is great, but the cost is prohibitive & the shifter situation is limited. Of course there is Gebla, at further significant expense if you are so inclined.

The Schlumpf drive at ~$800 gets you 1x simplicity with the gear range of a triple. Combined with Gevenalle shifters, you can have most any number of speeds you want. They index up to 12 speed, but can be run in friction mode for any cassette you desire.

How does 700% range sound for around $1100 all in? Good?
Good.

As long as we're buying high torque drivetrains for heavy loads, don't underestimate the wonderfulness of long lasting steel freehubs or freehubs with anti-bite guards. Aluminum freehubs get cassette bite far too easily & don't live very long in uses like this. A touring bike sees a lot more hours in a lot more remote regions than a mountain bike. There is no sense wasting time with an aluminum freehub with skinny individual cogs like found on 11/12 speed cassettes. A steel or titanium 10 speed freehub would do you right.

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Old 12-23-20, 12:08 PM
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hey Jambon, how much are you looking at for the Microshift setup, shifter, rd and cassette?
I know stuff is more expensive across the pond for you guys, but what price range is it in roughly?
I checked out the cogs and its not horrible, but I personally dont like 20% jumps, but all in all it looks fine enough.

just consider a double and a tighter cassette that would be nicer to ride, but again, thats my opinion.
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Old 12-23-20, 01:42 PM
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Originally Posted by ciquta
I'm totally sold on the 1x for touring, in my experience a 20% gap is acceptable

A short range 14-28 cassette (with gaps as low as 7%!) always makes me think whether I'm pushing the right gear, switching over and over without settling
Lots of double/triple shfiting as soon as the road slope a little bit or the wind blows a fart

go 1x without looking back, just pick the right chainring!
you can also pick an oval, which may help a bit esp if you're a masher
9 speed regularly available 14-28 aren't available, heck most are 11-32,34, but show me where you get yours and at what price
plus a 32/14 is going to be one heck of a low high gear

and percentages of shifts is partly personal, although from my touring experience on loaded bikes, too big jumps are a royal pain
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Old 12-23-20, 03:56 PM
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Originally Posted by djb
9 speed regularly available 14-28 aren't available, heck most are 11-32,34, but show me where you get yours and at what price
plus a 32/14 is going to be one heck of a low high gear

and percentages of shifts is partly personal, although from my touring experience on loaded bikes, too big jumps are a royal pain
Is this a question for ciquta or for me?
In my case, it's a Miche, I bought mine on ebay somewhere in 2017, I think, and I somehow have the feeling that it was literally the last one available like, worldwide. Price wasn't anything crazy either, 24 GBP. And although a full cassette in that range in 9s is all but impossible to find I can still source individual cogs to replace those that wear out.
Also, in my case a triple chainring is assumed, I don't think ciquta was trying to make the point of using that cassette on a 1x either
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Old 12-23-20, 04:36 PM
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Originally Posted by Igor_M
Is this a question for ciquta or for me?
In my case, it's a Miche, I bought mine on ebay somewhere in 2017, I think, and I somehow have the feeling that it was literally the last one available like, worldwide. Price wasn't anything crazy either, 24 GBP. And although a full cassette in that range in 9s is all but impossible to find I can still source individual cogs to replace those that wear out.
Also, in my case a triple chainring is assumed, I don't think ciquta was trying to make the point of using that cassette on a 1x either
I remember the miche ones, as you say, that was a very resonable price. I like the idea of commonly found stuff, I have a 11-34 on my tougher touring bike, and am glad of the 11t for downhills, as my biggest chainringis a 44 and 26inch wheels.

I can get the 1x sort of for more off road stuff, but for a general "touring bike" I really do feel a 1x is limiting, and for no real good reason, certainly not for the weight of a fd, shifter and a chain ring. And the sort of requirement to use a big cassette, so not even the option to use closer cassettes if you like that. (maintaining a good low gear for touring that is)
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Old 12-23-20, 04:51 PM
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Originally Posted by jambon
Has anyone else got a set up like this or is it a bad idea for some reason I have not foreseen?
Well, I gotta be honest; I think it's a bad idea. You just can't get the range you need on a 1X setup unless you have really big jumps between gears, and if so you will sacrifice a lot of efficiency having to ride in a non-optimum gear. If you are truly going to build a touring bike, and load it up with front and rear panniers and handlebar bag and enough provisions for a week or longer, it's not going to be a lightweight. Your loaded weight will likely be in the range of 75 - 105 or more pounds. A 1X setup just can't give you an adequate range of gearing for hard climbing, flat cruising, and a tall enough high gear so that you don't spin out too soon on the downgrades. Your chosen low gear calculates to 20.5 gear inches. If you are young & strong, that will be enough for most climbs - but if you tour in the Appalachians or climb really tall and steep grades while loaded heavy, you may wish for an even lower gear. My gearing was set up with a 19.5 gear-inch low gear when I rode the Transam in 2015 - even with that low gear, some climbs were extremely challenging (Hayter's Gap for example). I rode past younger folks who had to push their bikes up some of the steep Appalachian grades - they had low gears in the 22 gear-inch range. I never needed my lowest gear out west (the Rockies are gentle compared to the Appalachians and the Ozarks), but I wanted an even lower gear at times in the Appalachians. So for my next Transam, planned for next spring, I have set my bike up with a 17.5 gear-inch low. My top end is 98 gear-inches, and with that I start spinning out around 25mph.

Translating things a bit, I am now running a compact double setup with 40 and 26 tooth chainwheels and a 10-speed rear with cogs from 11 - 40 teeth. That gives me a gear range of 17.5 - 98 gear-inches, and that's a great touring setup. To each his own, but I'd strongly suggest you talk with a bike mechanic or 2 before you build a 1X setup for touring. I considered doing just that to save a bit of weight and complexity by eliminating the front derailleur - but the sacrifice in comfort and efficiency you have to make to do that isn't worth it. I'm sure you can MAKE it work, but I really doubt you will be happy with it. Best of luck regardless,

Buddy Hall
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Old 12-23-20, 05:59 PM
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32-11 still gives 35km/h which is faster than I need to push when fully loaded. If a descent gets me faster than that it probably won't last long, and it's nice to recover a bit in the meanwhile (and I dare you to spin a 40-11 at 90rpm with 4 panniers).

Besides, 99% of the tourers won't hard-tour on top of the Appalachians, most are happy with some regular hills or riverside bike paths. Many doesn't even carry full camping stuff.
In case you can always slap a 28t upfront and Bob's your uncle.

I toured loaded with tent through 13 different countries with 3x, 2x and 1x... I really don't miss worrying for chain rubbing and cross chain.
I will never go back.

​​​​
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Old 12-23-20, 07:01 PM
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Originally Posted by ciquta
32-11 still gives 35km/h which is faster than I need to push when fully loaded. If a descent gets me faster than that it probably won't last long, and it's nice to recover a bit in the meanwhile (and I dare you to spin a 40-11 at 90rpm with 4 panniers).

Besides, 99% of the tourers won't hard-tour on top of the Appalachians, most are happy with some regular hills or riverside bike paths. Many doesn't even carry full camping stuff.
In case you can always slap a 28t upfront and Bob's your uncle.

I toured loaded with tent through 13 different countries with 3x, 2x and 1x... I really don't miss worrying for chain rubbing and cross chain.
I will never go back.


​​​​
the thing with a 1x is that you will be putting a lot more angle into a chain, ie cross chaining, than with a double or a triple if you use a double or triple reasonably. I can only speak for myself, but its completely natural and easy for me to not cross chain in any chainring, although I acknowledge that some riders dont think of what gear they are in. Generally, I use the top half of the cassette in the big ring, the main chunk of the middle with the midring, and the lower half (larger cogs) with the small ring up front.
It pretty much coincides with slight downhills and tailwinds, lot of flats, and then climbs.

I dunno, I just dont get why using a double or a triple is an issue for touring, being on dirt and all that I get it, but for general touring, triples are so much more versatile and just plain work. I've built up bikes, installed fd, change cables and triples have always been pretty easy to do, even with sti's with those steps built in for the left sti.
Mind you, I grew up riding motorcycles and generally have it in my head what gear Im in, and I realize a lot of people don't.

in the end, gearing is just part of a tool that a bike is, and touring with stuff that weighs a lot on a bike in many different types of terrain means you just want the bike as a tool to work well.
If you find a 1x works , great, but there are legitimate, proven reasons why triples work better, and now with the great advances in rd and cassette designs, doubles can work great too for an average tourer who will come up against all kinds of riding terrain.
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Old 12-23-20, 07:09 PM
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Originally Posted by Buddy Hall
Well, I gotta be honest; I think it's a bad idea. You just can't get the range you need on a 1X setup unless you have really big jumps between gears, and if so you will sacrifice a lot of efficiency having to ride in a non-optimum gear. If you are truly going to build a touring bike, and load it up with front and rear panniers and handlebar bag and enough provisions for a week or longer, it's not going to be a lightweight. Your loaded weight will likely be in the range of 75 - 105 or more pounds. A 1X setup just can't give you an adequate range of gearing for hard climbing, flat cruising, and a tall enough high gear so that you don't spin out too soon on the downgrades. Your chosen low gear calculates to 20.5 gear inches. If you are young & strong, that will be enough for most climbs - but if you tour in the Appalachians or climb really tall and steep grades while loaded heavy, you may wish for an even lower gear. My gearing was set up with a 19.5 gear-inch low gear when I rode the Transam in 2015 - even with that low gear, some climbs were extremely challenging (Hayter's Gap for example). I rode past younger folks who had to push their bikes up some of the steep Appalachian grades - they had low gears in the 22 gear-inch range. I never needed my lowest gear out west (the Rockies are gentle compared to the Appalachians and the Ozarks), but I wanted an even lower gear at times in the Appalachians. So for my next Transam, planned for next spring, I have set my bike up with a 17.5 gear-inch low. My top end is 98 gear-inches, and with that I start spinning out around 25mph.

Translating things a bit, I am now running a compact double setup with 40 and 26 tooth chainwheels and a 10-speed rear with cogs from 11 - 40 teeth. That gives me a gear range of 17.5 - 98 gear-inches, and that's a great touring setup. To each his own, but I'd strongly suggest you talk with a bike mechanic or 2 before you build a 1X setup for touring. I considered doing just that to save a bit of weight and complexity by eliminating the front derailleur - but the sacrifice in comfort and efficiency you have to make to do that isn't worth it. I'm sure you can MAKE it work, but I really doubt you will be happy with it. Best of luck regardless,

Buddy Hall
all good points.
My triple setup has a range of a bit under 17-104, which worked exactly as I planned for the Latin America trips I did, where one does encounter steep stuff often, and I spin it out at a bit over 50k, maybe 55kph, which is fine by me also (a bit over 30mph).

I think we all agree that when touring, its pretty darn rare to be able to hold anything near 30kph, 20mph, and for me anyway, the real life common speed I'm mostly at is between 15-25kph, of course sometimes higher on downhills and often a lot slower for hours going uphill. Reducing load weight is always going to help things, and thats certainly changed over the years wiht lighter camping equipment and whatnot, although it still comes down to keeping things to a minimum and how much you value certain things for personal comfort.
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Old 12-23-20, 07:42 PM
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In times of 1x12 being the mainstream, I really don't see the point of 1x9 for a NEW drivetrain. 1x11 if you really want to cheap out and have an old hub standard. The large gaps on the 1x9 will be really annoying and range could be an issue.

if you already have 1x9 and like it, sure, keep it. but when you buy new, buy new.
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Old 12-23-20, 08:25 PM
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when I'm riding i have no clue what gear I am or how the chain is angled, and I don't want to think about it
It's not about saving weight (which is marginal), it's about simplicity.

gear up is always made at the same way
gear down for a hill is much faster and one handed
I have less components with a potential failure, less things to be worried about and no more chain drop ever since
I admit, that 40/26 upfront might be ideal for serious expeditions with heavy gear and multitude of weather conditions, but not necessary for the vast majority of tourers.
3x is useless to me, that big chainring comes useful only to avoid cross chain or, of course, if you have such a short range cassette with 14t as a smallest cog. But nowadays you can get a quality 11-40 cassette for 40$ so I don't get the point.
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Old 12-23-20, 10:08 PM
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Re chain angle, I brought it up thinking of chain life. I only have experience with up to 10 speed, so admit that I have no idea of how a 1x with 11 or 12 will last. Ever since way back to the 7 speed era I've tended to get 5,6000kms out of chains before they get to that wear point of 1/16 inch over 12 inches. Was probably more kms with the 7 speed, but 9 spd has been consistent and cassettes are good through numerous chain changes.
I don't know if a 1x system will wear outt chains a lot quicker.
even if so, I guess it depends on if there's a big difference. If not welll then it's not a factor really.

as for simplicity and reliability, in all my biking life, just about every gear and shifting system has been incredibly reliable, so that's not a real concern for me.

but again, if you're happy with what you use and it works, great.
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Old 12-23-20, 10:34 PM
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Somehow I missed the 1x9, if you're looking at the Advent line they now offer that model in a 1x10 but honestly I wouldn't use either for a touring bike. Both require their specific rear derailleur. They do offer a 1x11 that uses a shimano rear der and I'd go with that one for better gear spacing.

Originally Posted by base2
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The problem with 1x is the range is more of an either/or situation. You picks what you gets. For obvious reasons the 500+% range of a Rolhoff is great, but the cost is prohibitive & the shifter situation is limited. Of course there is Gebla, at further significant expense if you are so inclined.

A touring bike sees a lot more hours in a lot more remote regions than a mountain bike. There is no sense wasting time with an aluminum freehub with skinny individual cogs like found on 11/12 speed cassettes. A steel or titanium 10 speed freehub would do you right.
Microshift does make a rolhoff drop bar lever. I've only known one person who ever used it and he was satisfied with it.
Agree on freehub body, building the wife a new set of touring wheels for Christmas if the spokes actually make it here tomorrow like tracking claims, hers will have Titanium to keep it a little lighter. I know touring is heavy but thought in every item saves lbs over all and energy over the miles, but aluminum isn't worth it.

Originally Posted by Igor_M
In my case, it's a Miche, I bought mine on ebay somewhere in 2017, I think, and I somehow have the feeling that it was literally the last one available like, worldwide. Price wasn't anything crazy either, 24 GBP. And although a full cassette in that range in 9s is all but impossible to find I can still source individual cogs to replace those that wear out.
Also, in my case a triple chainring is assumed, I don't think ciquta was trying to make the point of using that cassette on a 1x either
Miche cassettes are still available, almost bought a 14-32 one this summer for my daughter's road bike to meet junior gearing requirements but came across a better length crank with a 46t vs the compact and that solved the problem an easier way.

Originally Posted by ciquta
32-11 still gives 35km/h which is faster than I need to push when fully loaded. If a descent gets me faster than that it probably won't last long, and it's nice to recover a bit in the meanwhile (and I dare you to spin a 40-11 at 90rpm with 4 panniers).
​​​​
I can't sustain 90rpm for more then a few minutes at a time either way but have no trouble with a 46/14 at my typical 70-75rpm for miles at a time and still use that 12 or 11 on anything resembling a downhill or slope.
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Old 12-24-20, 07:11 AM
  #23  
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Originally Posted by Russ Roth
...
Microshift does make a rolhoff drop bar lever. I've only known one person who ever used it and he was satisfied with it.
....
I am not familiar with that. Is that one of the gutted shifters to work with the Rohbox? I tried google to find it and could not. Do you have a link?

I am using the stock Rohloff shifter with HubBub adapter to mount my shfter on the end of the handlebar on drop bars.

I am happy with what I am using, have no desire to change, but I try to keep track of what is out there and I was unaware of a Microshift shifter system that was built for that purpose. The only brifter options I am aware of for Rohloff use a Rohbox and two gutted brifters. If there is a single lever option from Microshift, I might be more interested.
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Old 12-24-20, 09:39 AM
  #24  
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN
I am not familiar with that. Is that one of the gutted shifters to work with the Rohbox? I tried google to find it and could not. Do you have a link?

I am using the stock Rohloff shifter with HubBub adapter to mount my shfter on the end of the handlebar on drop bars.

I am happy with what I am using, have no desire to change, but I try to keep track of what is out there and I was unaware of a Microshift shifter system that was built for that purpose. The only brifter options I am aware of for Rohloff use a Rohbox and two gutted brifters. If there is a single lever option from Microshift, I might be more interested.
It seems I may have confused rohloff with Alfine as they have a couple of shifters for that.
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Old 12-24-20, 10:28 AM
  #25  
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Originally Posted by Russ Roth
It seems I may have confused rohloff with Alfine as they have a couple of shifters for that.
Thanks.
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