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Old 01-07-21, 05:04 AM
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Group Advice

Now that the triple seems all but dead in the mid to high range groups what is everyone using? Personally I used Campy 10 sp triples. The prices have climbed to absurd levels. I have no brand preference anymore. Just looking for something with a low gear for a 62 year old guy.
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Old 01-07-21, 05:47 AM
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I just swapped to some Veloce ergos and rear derailleur with a 10sp XT 11-34 cassette and mountain bike crank w/36 & 44 chainrings normally and 22 & 34 when needed.
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Old 01-07-21, 06:17 AM
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A friend of mine bought a new trike a year ago, I was surprised it came with a triple, crank is a FSA brand, I do not know the model. His is a road triple.

Your Campy cranks if they were the older square taper would have been road triples (52/42/30). But you desire low gears. Does that mean you want a mountain crank instead of a road crank? Or do you want a lower cost road triple?

If you buy a square taper crank, note that Campy uses an ISO square taper, other brands use JIS. Meaning you should not mix your Campy square taper bottom brackets with a non-Campy crank.

If you do not see what you like out there, do not rule out a low budget Vuelta from Amazon. I am using Vuelta crankarms from a square taper compact double on my Rohloff bike, they work just fine.

For non-Campy square taper cranks, I am very happy with Shimano UN-55 bottom brackets. You would need a Shimano type bottom bracket tool, your Campy bottom bracket tools won't work.
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Old 01-07-21, 06:27 AM
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Originally Posted by cs1 View Post
Now that the triple seems all but dead in the mid to high range groups what is everyone using? Personally I used Campy 10 sp triples. The prices have climbed to absurd levels. I have no brand preference anymore. Just looking for something with a low gear for a 62 year old guy.
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Old 01-07-21, 06:37 AM
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I know there are cranks available but long cage rear derailleurs and shifters for a triple are gone. Shimano makes Tiagra, SRAM and Campagnolo have abandoned it. Plus Shimano front derailleurs seem to work best with a 53T big ring. Their MTB fronts are not compatible with road shifters. I am not interested in barcons for this build. Sadly I seem to be SOL.
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Old 01-07-21, 06:41 AM
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Originally Posted by cs1 View Post
I know there are cranks available but long cage rear derailleurs and shifters for a triple are gone. Shimano makes Tiagra, SRAM and Campagnolo have abandoned it. Plus Shimano front derailleurs seem to work best with a 53T big ring. Their MTB fronts are not compatible with road shifters. I am not interested in barcons for this build. Sadly I seem to be SOL.
Do a Search on EBAY for what you Need.
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Old 01-07-21, 06:47 AM
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Originally Posted by 10 Wheels View Post
Do a Search on EBAY for what you Need.
I have and it's all used. Which is why I'm asking the experts.
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Old 01-07-21, 07:30 AM
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Originally Posted by cs1 View Post
I know there are cranks available but long cage rear derailleurs and shifters for a triple are gone. Shimano makes Tiagra, SRAM and Campagnolo have abandoned it. Plus Shimano front derailleurs seem to work best with a 53T big ring. Their MTB fronts are not compatible with road shifters. I am not interested in barcons for this build. Sadly I seem to be SOL.
When I built up my rando bike five years ago, I was not sure what to use for a front shifter. As a temporary measure, I used a vintage friction downtube shifter, but now five years later that temporary measure is starting to look very permanent. They work with all bottom pull derailleurs.

Regarding long cage rear derailleurs, there are tons of used ones. I like the look of the 1990s vintage XT rear derailleurs, have them on several bikes plus a few spares on the shelf. Pick something that looks nice, check to see what the cable pull ratio is on it and try it if the math looks good.
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Jtek adapters can be used to change cable pull ratios if you are trying to mix and match.
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Old 01-07-21, 07:54 AM
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Both brand new with warranty
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Old 01-07-21, 08:24 AM
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Originally Posted by cs1 View Post
Now that the triple seems all but dead in the mid to high range groups what is everyone using? Personally I used Campy 10 sp triples. The prices have climbed to absurd levels. I have no brand preference anymore. Just looking for something with a low gear for a 62 year old guy.
Just to be clear, you're talking dropbars right?
And for touring and a heavier bike right?
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Old 01-07-21, 09:08 AM
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Originally Posted by cs1 View Post
I know there are cranks available but long cage rear derailleurs and shifters for a triple are gone. Shimano makes Tiagra, SRAM and Campagnolo have abandoned it. Plus Shimano front derailleurs seem to work best with a 53T big ring. Their MTB fronts are not compatible with road shifters. I am not interested in barcons for this build. Sadly I seem to be SOL.

Shimano Sora 3x9 STI
Shimano Alivio FCT4060 crankset 48x36x26t
Shimano Sora R3030 front derailleur
Shimano Alivio M4000 rear derailleur
Shimano Alivio or another 9 speed cassette with gearing you want
various 9 speed chain

A Sora triple FD works perfectly fine with an MTB crank with trekking gearing like the one listed.
Im pretty sure the spec above is standard on Surly DT and Trek 520.
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Old 01-07-21, 11:07 AM
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I hate feeling rushed to buying another bike so I can get something like mstateglfr lists. (Though I might get a Sugino crank instead...) In the meantime, my bikes have triples and they're still rideable -- so that's what I'm riding!
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Old 01-07-21, 11:22 AM
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some ideas:
Velo Orange
Rivendell
Sunrace
Interloc Racing

since all of these are making triple cranksets, I'm willing to bet that a phone call or email to them will give you some good ideas of how to set them up with shifters and derailers.
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Old 01-07-21, 11:34 AM
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Basically the new Sora is the old Tiagra.
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Old 01-07-21, 02:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Germany_chris View Post
...
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I am confused, a Campy brifter, a Campy rear derailleur, why is there a Jtec adapter? Or, is that a cassette with Shimano/Sram sprocket spacing?

On my rando bike I am using a Campy 10 speed brifter for the rear with a Shimano XT derailleur and 8 speed Sram cassette. The cable pull per shift with a Campy 10 speed is almost identical to a Shimano 8 speed system, thus no Jtec adapter needed.
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Old 01-07-21, 02:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
I am confused, a Campy brifter, a Campy rear derailleur, why is there a Jtec adapter? Or, is that a cassette with Shimano/Sram sprocket spacing?

On my rando bike I am using a Campy 10 speed brifter for the rear with a Shimano XT derailleur and 8 speed Sram cassette. The cable pull per shift with a Campy 10 speed is almost identical to a Shimano 8 speed system, thus no Jtec adapter needed.
It's a 10 speed XT cassette
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Old 01-07-21, 03:27 PM
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Originally Posted by cs1 View Post
I know there are cranks available but long cage rear derailleurs and shifters for a triple are gone. Shimano makes Tiagra, SRAM and Campagnolo have abandoned it. Plus Shimano front derailleurs seem to work best with a 53T big ring. Their MTB fronts are not compatible with road shifters. I am not interested in barcons for this build. Sadly I seem to be SOL.
Depends on what you want to do. For an 11 speed transmission you are probably SOL. But 10 speed and 9 speed are still an option. Shimano still sells the Deore mountain bike derailer in 9 speed. It will work for 10 speed with 10 speed STI shifters.

Microshift makes triples stuff in 8, 9, and 10. They have shifters as well as front and rear derailers in all three. Perhaps not as good as Shimano but Iíve worked on bikes with Microshift and they seem to work fairly well.

I think you are being overly broad on Shimano front derailers. Iíve used Shimano fronts on outer rings as small as 46 teeth without problems. I would suggest that you donít look at any of the higher end Shimano front derailers, however. The higher end Shimano front you use...road or mountain...the more finicky it is. Shimanoís Tiagra or below fronts work well and are easy to set up. 105 and above have issues. Iíve use Tiagra and Sora, as well as Microshift, and have had very good experiences with them.
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Old 01-07-21, 05:39 PM
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If I were you I would look at a Sugino Alpina2 Triple or Renť Herse cranks (which can be had in whatever gearing pretty much)
For derailleurs I would probably go XT 11 speed at the rear and if you can get it a CX-70 at the front but if not maybe consider a GRX and potentially a slightly longer spindle B.B.
For shifters the choice is easy Gevenalle GX shifters which use a bar-end/downtube shifter on the front of a brake lever so you get a proper brake lever and a really handy shifter one of which is friction which I think is better for triples anyway. You can also do a Hydraulic version as well that uses TRP Hylex calipers. The nice thing is you have MTB shifting on a drop bar without any odd adaptors.

Sadly full group sets are rare in touring. Shimano sort of comes a little close with the T8000 Trekking gruppo but mostly that is found in Europe and is flat bar so you would need to use a different shifter or adapters for drop bar.

Personally though I would go with a 2X11 (or maybe 12) similar set up as above but ditch the triple and use a White Industries (or other crank with customizable chainrings) and a wide range cassette. You may not get quite as low of a gear and not as high but you can get a pretty close range. I am planning a 44-30 with an 11-42 out back and that does get me most of my triple that I need most of the time and honestly for the bike it is going on it plenty and if I needed more I could do a 28 at the front or 11-46 at the back and be fine.
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Old 01-07-21, 06:35 PM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
Sadly full group sets are rare in touring. Shimano sort of comes a little close with the T8000 Trekking gruppo but mostly that is found in Europe and is flat bar so you would need to use a different shifter or adapters for drop bar.
There were full(ish) groups for touring bikes in the 80s. They got used on mountain bikes. Shimano and SRAM really screwed the pooch when they decided to change everything. Shimano going to Dynasys was just stupid and SRAMís fascination with 1x drives me up the wall. I have 9 and 10 speed systems in both brands and I really like the way SRAM works but Iím not going to 1x.

That said, the lack of a coherent group for either I see as a plus. I push the limits when it comes to gearing range and being able to mix and match enables me to do things with gearing that Shimano never envisioned.

Personally though I would go with a 2X11 (or maybe 12) similar set up as above but ditch the triple and use a White Industries (or other crank with customizable chainrings) and a wide range cassette. You may not get quite as low of a gear and not as high but you can get a pretty close range. I am planning a 44-30 with an 11-42 out back and that does get me most of my triple that I need most of the time and honestly for the bike it is going on it plenty and if I needed more I could do a 28 at the front or 11-46 at the back and be fine.
Although itís hardly a news flash, I really hate wide range doubles. Yes, they have the range of a triple but they have a giant hole in the middle of the range that requires a lot of jiggering after a shift between rings to get the gear you want. Itís all herky jerky where a triple is nice and smooth. Itís almost like the people who design 2x systems have not idea how gears work on a bike.

Iíd stick with the triple, use a 9 or 10 speed, and forgo that extra gear or two. The gearing is tighter and more useful over a wider range of terrain.
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Old 01-07-21, 07:31 PM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
Although itís hardly a news flash, I really hate wide range doubles. Yes, they have the range of a triple but they have a giant hole in the middle of the range that requires a lot of jiggering after a shift between rings to get the gear you want. Itís all herky jerky where a triple is nice and smooth. Itís almost like the people who design 2x systems have not idea how gears work on a bike.
Iíd stick with the triple, use a 9 or 10 speed, and forgo that extra gear or two. The gearing is tighter and more useful over a wider range of terrain.
this is a crucial point, and even worse with 1x systems that while have a place in mtb situations.
Clearly 11 and 12 spd stuff will most often have cassettes with jumps very similar to 9 spd, but with those added higher teeth counts, so they can be fine all in all.
But as you say with the underlined statement, you do have to wonder about the thinking going on. Im sure a big part of it is economy of scale, and reducing product lines to streamline production over lots of bikes.
I wonder though how much of it is just going with joe or jane blow rider who just doesnt get using a triple, and so simplifiying stuff appeals to a lot of casual riders.
I know we sound like a bunch of grumpy old bastards who dont accept new stuff, but a triple for touring still really does have real life advantages--especially if you take into account not only having a wide range of gears, which is just plain nice, but then also the possibility of having closer shifts due to more gears---that said, I still dont have personal experience past 10 spd for chain longevity etc, so I cant really say how 11 spd is in real life, let alone 12.
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Old 01-08-21, 12:40 AM
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
this is a crucial point, and even worse with 1x systems that while have a place in mtb situations.
To start, I have to say sorry for the thread hijack, cs1.

I mountain bike as well and I donít see the appeal of 1x there. Itís okay if you ride loops around the bike park or if you are racing a circuit, I suppose. But I ride over long enough distances that having a wide range of gears is worth the (slight) complication of the triple.

I once read something in Adventure Cycle magazine from the guy at SRAM who is the force behind going to 1x. He said that changing the chainwheel on a 1x completely changes the character of the bicycle. I fully agree. What if you carried along the chainrings and had the is nifty little device that switches between those chainrings? It would completely change the character of the bike. Why has no one invented such a system?

Clearly 11 and 12 spd stuff will most often have cassettes with jumps very similar to 9 spd, but with those added higher teeth counts, so they can be fine all in all.
But as you say with the underlined statement, you do have to wonder about the thinking going on. Im sure a big part of it is economy of scale, and reducing product lines to streamline production over lots of bikes.
I think there are a couple of different things going on here. Bicycle manufacturers...and uninformed people...have always been fascinated with the number of gears rather then how to use them. 10, 15, 18, 21, 27, etc ďspeedsĒ is meaningless but explaining how to make use of those gears and how there really are only about half of those gears are unique is just too hard to deal with. They just stick with a number which sounds good without thinking about how the thing shifts and rides.

The other issue is that component manufacturers are racing companies who also happen to sell some bike stuff. Racers have looked down on triples forever. Even the low gear is derisively called a ďgrannyĒ gear because only old grannies need one. I have not problem using a low gear...even a lower gear than most people even think is possible. It doesnít challenge my manhood to do so. Iím actually kind of proud to have a 730% range...from 114 gear inches to 15 gear inches. I can ride up most anything and down have to coast down the other side.


I wonder though how much of it is just going with joe or jane blow rider who just doesnt get using a triple, and so simplifiying stuff appeals to a lot of casual riders.
While I agree, I think that goes back to education rather then just getting rid of the system. But I question the ďsimplicityĒ of 2x systems. All of the ones Iíve seen require multiple upshifts to find the proper gear. Someone recently told me that having a middle chainring is a silly reason to avoid double upshifts after a downshift. Huh?

I know we sound like a bunch of grumpy old bastards who dont accept new stuff, but a triple for touring still really does have real life advantages--especially if you take into account not only having a wide range of gears, which is just plain nice, but then also the possibility of having closer shifts due to more gears---that said, I still dont have personal experience past 10 spd for chain longevity etc, so I cant really say how 11 spd is in real life, let alone 12.
For quite a while, the only additional gears were on the high end. Thankfully the current trend is to add more low...and lower...end gears. Thatís a plus but from what Iíve read, the longevity of 11 and 12 speed chains is greatly diminished.
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Old 01-08-21, 09:49 AM
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Last year I ran a Suntour XC Pro triple crank with 10 speed rings on it with my Record 11 speed Campagnolo drive train and it worked just fine. I did not set it up with the granny gear, but am certain that I could if I played with it enough. There are all sorts of combos that will work, new as well as old stuff.
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Old 01-08-21, 11:52 AM
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Originally Posted by cyccommute View Post
There were full(ish) groups for touring bikes in the 80s. They got used on mountain bikes. Shimano and SRAM really screwed the pooch when they decided to change everything. Shimano going to Dynasys was just stupid and SRAMís fascination with 1x drives me up the wall. I have 9 and 10 speed systems in both brands and I really like the way SRAM works but Iím not going to 1x.

That said, the lack of a coherent group for either I see as a plus. I push the limits when it comes to gearing range and being able to mix and match enables me to do things with gearing that Shimano never envisioned.



Although itís hardly a news flash, I really hate wide range doubles. Yes, they have the range of a triple but they have a giant hole in the middle of the range that requires a lot of jiggering after a shift between rings to get the gear you want. Itís all herky jerky where a triple is nice and smooth. Itís almost like the people who design 2x systems have not idea how gears work on a bike.

Iíd stick with the triple, use a 9 or 10 speed, and forgo that extra gear or two. The gearing is tighter and more useful over a wider range of terrain.

SRAM going 1x isn't hard to figure, their front derailleurs where never that great and maybe that was down to patents but probably down to SRAM just not really wanting to have a proper FD.

Yeah with any set up you can have gaps but I do like 1x in certain situations obviously long distance touring, no thanks but it does have a place. It will not have all the gears and that can suck but it also makes the ride interesting. A wide range 2x isn't so terrible but yes not quite as smooth as a 3x but it can be a bit simpler and still be workable. Maybe with STI levers it might not be as fun but thumb or trigger shifters aren't so bad.
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Old 01-08-21, 02:26 PM
  #24  
cyccommute 
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
SRAM going 1x isn't hard to figure, their front derailleurs where never that great and maybe that was down to patents but probably down to SRAM just not really wanting to have a proper FD.
I agree that 1x isnít difficult to figure out...I wasnít saying otherwise. But 1x has other issues, most specifically a lack of range. You can go fast down hill and struggle to go up hill or you can ride up hill in a good gear and spend a lot of time coasting.

I donít agree about SRAM front derailers, however. At least not for mountain bikes. From top to bottom of the line, SRAM X series works wonderfully. Same canít be said for Shimano. Their XTR carbon fiber E-type derailer has to be the most useless expensive derailer around. If you had one, I can see why you wouldnít want front derailers. Their expensive road and mountain derailers are about the same. When I have Shimano systems, I donít go above Tiagra for road or above Deore for mountain. And, in mountain, I avoid using bottom swing as much as possible. Oddly enough, SRAM bottom swings work fairly well and are on the same par as SRAMís top swing.
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Old 01-08-21, 05:54 PM
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Are triples really going away? I haven't been out of the middle ring on my bike for about twenty years, but I always felt like a rebel for that. I guess now I'm just ordinary.
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