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Trouble getting my rack on my Surly DT - help!

Old 01-24-21, 02:04 PM
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SoFloGirl68
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Trouble getting my rack on my Surly DT - help!

I recently bought a 2013 Surly Disc Trucker. I purchased a Tubus Duo Lowrider front rack but I'm having trouble install it onto my bike. The rack isn't parallel to my bike, the front end swings out a bit. I haven't tightened anything yet. I was thinking maybe I need more spacers on the bottom? Does anyone have any idea? Pictures in next comment (sorry about that). Thanks for any help!

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Old 01-24-21, 02:26 PM
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You may need some spacers? Should have posted a pic or two so we could see what is going on! The big key is making sure everything is properly torqued and greased or threadlocked and nothing rubs or causes issue will riding. I think when I had the rack on my old DT it tilted forward a bit but never caused any issues.
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Old 01-24-21, 05:59 PM
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I am guessing that you had trouble loading a photo because either it was too large in memory size or you have too few posts to be able to post a photo. I photo reduce my photos to 20 percent of original size before posting on this forum.

Not sure what the problem is, do you mean that the top bar that you hang the pannier is not horizontal but instead is sloped up or down?

Or do you mean that one or both sides of the rack are angled outwards at the front of the rack instead the two sides being parallel with each other?

It sounds like you had no problem mounting the bottom of the rack to the dropout, or was that your problem?

I was going to suggest you look at a different recent thread on mounting a front rack on a DT, and I see that you started that thread too.
Racks and Panniers for 2013 Surly Disc Trucker
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Old 01-25-21, 02:12 PM
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Steel can be safely bent to some extent. Rack and fender installations often require some flexibility of plan and parts, since there are no universal standards.
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Old 01-26-21, 06:30 PM
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floridalady, its very very common to have to use spacers for mounting racks. If you are able to visit an actual bike store, they will have spacers and doohickeys that will allow for proper mounting. These spacers often come with racks when sold, but you may be able to find some in hardware stores, although diff inner hole diameters etc will be a factor, not to mention length-although you can hacksaw them to a better length if you have a vice and a hacksaw, and the inclination for this stuff.

show photos, side view sorts, but also close ups of the contact points and mucking around the caliper and all that jazz.
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Old 02-06-21, 04:47 PM
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relatively small spacer (silver part) used to space out my front fork from my fork, this is the non disc side but on the brake side, the same size spacer was enough to move the rack enough to not be in the way of the brake caliper
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Old 02-06-21, 04:53 PM
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and a quick look found some various spacers I have kicking around, in case different lengths are needed. The bigger ones often came with rear racks, and I've cut them down to size before, probably why the shorter one is lopsided a bit.
The two little knurled things are those rings that screw down onto a presta tube valve, and I've used a couple of those as spacers for rack bolts before, and they worked too.

so if you ever find you want or need to fiddle with your rack to even it out or whatever, these are the options to play with , and usually a bike store will have some to sell or give you.

dont forget to check rack bolt tightness once in a while.
cheers
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Old 02-06-21, 07:44 PM
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Side question, someone mentioned that I should grease the bolts when I put them on the racks which I did. Then my friend said he thought I should use no grease but loctite. I'm not familiar with this product but by the name, I figured it's to glue it on. I did not follow that advice. Which is correct? Also, thanks for the reminder to check the bolt tightness. I would not have thought of that!
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Old 02-06-21, 09:48 PM
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Originally Posted by SoFloGirl68 View Post
Side question, someone mentioned that I should grease the bolts when I put them on the racks which I did. Then my friend said he thought I should use no grease but loctite. I'm not familiar with this product but by the name, I figured it's to glue it on. I did not follow that advice. Which is correct? Also, thanks for the reminder to check the bolt tightness. I would not have thought of that!
Loctite is a brand name, there are other threadlockers around. You want removable, so you can remove them later. Last time I bought any, this is what I bought, a competing brand.
https://www.truevalue.com/6-ml-remov...hread-locker-1

Some things on a bike like water bottle cage bolts, I use grease. But rack bolts, I use a thread locker.
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Old 02-07-21, 01:03 AM
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A blue(or mild) threadlocker is not a bad thing for rack bolts. I personally generally just use grease or anti seize because I usually have that around at home but for ultimate piece of mind a threadlocker is the way to do it. If you are good about using a torque wrench and checking your bolts with some regularity grease will do the trick.
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Old 02-07-21, 07:28 AM
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I put threadlocker almost anywhere. Unlike grease, it won't wash off eventually and there's really no chance of a bolt rattling loose with a thread locking compound. It also works better as a rust / welding inhibitor than grease as it creates an almost plastic like shell around the threads.

I don't understand why bottlecage screws are greased rather than threadlocked
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Old 02-07-21, 08:52 AM
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In the past I didn't know about putting stuff on rack bolts, and wondered why they sometimes loosened.
Then read about loctite and heavy grease, and because I had a bottle of really thick anti-seize automotive grease, I used that and it really helped.
Finally bought a small bottle of loctite and it helps.
I still am not sure if it's better to let the stuff dry for a while after putting it on a bolt before putting it in or not....

also, on some bikes, rack bolts screw in very easily, and others are much harder, maybe paint inside, but it certainly helps them from loosening.

When touring, it's always good every week to do a bike go over, but I do check the rack bolts after the first few days too.
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Old 02-07-21, 09:54 AM
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
In the past I didn't know about putting stuff on rack bolts, and wondered why they sometimes loosened.
Then read about loctite and heavy grease, and because I had a bottle of really thick anti-seize automotive grease, I used that and it really helped.
Finally bought a small bottle of loctite and it helps.
I still am not sure if it's better to let the stuff dry for a while after putting it on a bolt before putting it in or not....

also, on some bikes, rack bolts screw in very easily, and others are much harder, maybe paint inside, but it certainly helps them from loosening.

When touring, it's always good every week to do a bike go over, but I do check the rack bolts after the first few days too.
Loctite is anaerobically drying so it doesn't actually dry when it's exposed to air. So letting the stuff dry before you put the bolt on is unnecessary.

I've actually snapped a screw into an eyelet because the paint was too thick. From then on I've always tapped eyelets on a new frame.
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Old 02-07-21, 10:04 AM
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Originally Posted by elcruxio View Post
...
I don't understand why bottlecage screws are greased rather than threadlocked
I am not saying grease is better than a thread locker, but for some applications, I think it is good enough. And I have never had a water bottle cage come loose, and I can't remember that ever happening on a friends bike either.

I just use a thread locker where it is most important. And I have seen lots of racks that are missing a bolt when in the campgrounds when I was touring. At one campground where we were about 150 km from any form of retail, someone in the next campsite was checking his rack bolts, he had already lost a few and had no more spares. To check them, he had to take the tape off, he had wrapped tape around all of his and his wife's rack bolts so that if they loosened, they could not completely fall out.

Although I have been careful to check my cleat bolts regularly, I lost one a couple years ago, now I use locktite on those too, and fenders, and kickstand bolts. But lots of my bolts, seapost, stem clamps, etc., I use grease.

Lots of bike shops do not even have a bottle of threadlocker anywhere in the shop.

Leonard Zinn is a sharp guy, this was published a few months ago in Zinn's column:
https://www.velonews.com/gear/tech-w...nd-warm-shoes/

And I will add that grease might sound like a stupid thing to keep bolts from falling out because it is a lubricant, but a dry bolt or screw that is not tight can easily rattle and move in the threads with vibration, thus easily falls out. But grease is a very viscous fluid, and a loose screw (pun intended) is less likely to vibrate when greased.

And Ritchey told me that I should NOT use any grease on my downtube clamp on my Ritchey Break Away bike, so there are times when it is not recommended.

My S&S bike, when I pack that for airline travel, I have to take it completely apart to fit in the case, on that bike I only use thread locker on the racks and kickstand bolts, nowhere else. I have started to carry a little bottle of thread locker on tours so that I can apply new thread locker to my rack bolts, but I want my water bottle cage bolts to come out faster when I have to pack up my bike to get to the airport on time.
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Old 02-07-21, 10:45 AM
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If I use loctite, would I still be able to remove the rack if necessary?
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Old 02-07-21, 11:27 AM
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Originally Posted by SoFloGirl68 View Post
If I use loctite, would I still be able to remove the rack if necessary?
yes, if you use the type that is for being able to disassemble using hand tools, like this one

https://www.loctiteproducts.com/en/p...tal%20surfaces.

if you do get some to use, do clean all the grease off your rack bolts first. I'm pretty certain it needs a good clean surface to work properly.

post a photo of your rack, you said its kinda crooked, but there's crooked and there's crooked....

ps, you gotta love how the "blue 242 Loctite" stuff is sold in a predominantly red tube.....

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Old 02-07-21, 11:31 AM
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Originally Posted by elcruxio View Post
Loctite is anaerobically drying so it doesn't actually dry when it's exposed to air. So letting the stuff dry before you put the bolt on is unnecessary.

I've actually snapped a screw into an eyelet because the paint was too thick. From then on I've always tapped eyelets on a new frame.
thanks, I've probably been told that before, but have forgotten. Generally I've haven't waited for the stuff to dry more than a few minutes and just put the bolts in after a min or two.
My wifes touring bike had the most gummed up eyelets, I don't have tapping doohickeys so just carefully did my best with the bolts, and anyway, once it was on, there was no need to remove it afterwards (rear rack).
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Old 02-07-21, 08:00 PM
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Originally Posted by SoFloGirl68 View Post
If I use loctite, would I still be able to remove the rack if necessary?
Yes if you use a mild threadlocker (typically blue in color). It will come out but will give a little bit of resistance so just make sure you are putting the bolts in correctly because you won't know if the resistance is just the loctite doing it's job or you are destroying threads. That is why on some bolts you will see loctite in the middle not at the start of the threads.
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Old 02-07-21, 08:13 PM
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Originally Posted by SoFloGirl68 View Post
If I use loctite, would I still be able to remove the rack if necessary?
In post number 9 above, I said: You want removable, so you can remove them later.

If the package does not say removable, do not buy it.
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Old 02-08-21, 12:26 PM
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Originally Posted by djb View Post
you gotta love how the "blue 242 Loctite" stuff is sold in a predominantly red tube.....
Red and green Loctite also comes in similar red bottle. Permatex packages their red, blue and orange threadlocker in blue bottles. You gotta read before you buy.
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Old 02-23-21, 09:23 AM
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Originally Posted by veganbikes View Post
...If you are good about using a torque wrench...
I've dug around a little bit for an appropriate torque wrench for bicycle specifications and there are quite a few selections out there. Do you have any recommendations?

Thanks!
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Old 02-23-21, 10:44 AM
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In a pinch - fingernail polish or hardener, just under the nut/spacer. Fingernail products might vary, and might crack under stress... but "in a pinch" means just that.
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Old 02-23-21, 12:26 PM
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I come from the "grease every bolt" school. I check all bolts regularly while on tour, and have never lost a bolt. The only threads I use thread lock on are replaceable cantilever posts. I'm involved in teaching bike safety and do the maintenance on our schools' 37 bikes. I can guarantee you that not one bolt has come lose on any of the bikes this year
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Old 02-23-21, 02:40 PM
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Originally Posted by UncleG View Post
In a pinch ...
Krazyglue (cyanoacrylate) works pretty good as a threadlocker too. Can be removed from metal threads later, if needed.
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Old 02-23-21, 07:18 PM
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Originally Posted by UncleG View Post
I've dug around a little bit for an appropriate torque wrench for bicycle specifications and there are quite a few selections out there. Do you have any recommendations?

Thanks!
The two torque wrenches I own currently are the Park Tool ATD 2.1 (now in the 2.2 which is better) and the Effetto Mariposa Guistaforza 2-16 Pro Anniversary set. The Guistaforza is perfect for dialing in but the Park is a great go to for 4-6nm stuff in .5 increments like stem and seat bolts when I don't want to pull out the Guista from the bottom of my tool box. However I really want a digital torque tool, for potentially a little more accuracy plus I want different bits (and now have some different bits) and a better lay out in my tool box. The case is fine but a little big for what I want and for the limited space at the bottom and I don't know yet if I want to do any Kaizen foam stuff in it.

I think my next torque tool will likely be the Topeak D-Torq DX since it goes 4-80 so I can do BBs and such though I have invested in a lot of 1/4 stuff so I don't know. I do really want a Snap-On digital wrench after using one but the Topeak one seems pretty close to it and has gotten generally good reviews and I love and use a lot of Topeak products so we shall see.

I wouldn't go for any of the cheap-o stuff but you don't have to go all the way to a $500 Snap-On one either. For the money the Guista is quite a good one and easy to dial and has a good click and feel when you have hit the torque and isn't so terrible price wise with case and all the bits plus it does feel nice in the hand. If you wanted something cheaper the Park Tool TW-5.2 is a great option it is the first one I ever used (well maybe a different model number but similar design).

The one thing I always say is buy the best possible tools you can especially for stuff you are going to need often. Buy your tools once not several times. You don't save any money buying them twice or three times or more. Plus the feeling of a good tool in your hand is just so nice.
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