Go Back  Bike Forums > Bike Forums > Touring
Reload this Page >

Knees-in Touring

Notices
Touring Have a dream to ride a bike across your state, across the country, or around the world? Self-contained or fully supported? Trade ideas, adventures, and more in our bicycle touring forum.

Knees-in Touring

Old 01-25-21, 07:16 AM
  #1  
imi
aka Timi
Thread Starter
 
imi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Posts: 3,237

Bikes: Bianchi Lupo (touring) Bianchi Volpe (commuter), Miyata On Off Road Runner

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked 128 Times in 98 Posts
Knees-in Touring

Inspired by the discussion on bar-ends/brifters, and it being the middle of winter and lockdowns 🥴 what are your thoughts on riding knees-in when on tour?

Do you? Donít you? Donít bother? Havenít got a clue what Iím rambling on about? 😬
imi is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 08:07 AM
  #2  
djb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 13,207
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2735 Post(s)
Liked 967 Times in 791 Posts
Crazy Swedes!
I'm often knee out going into a corner, but other than that I haven't a clue what you mean ;-)
djb is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 08:24 AM
  #3  
Senior Member
 
indyfabz's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Posts: 39,187
Mentioned: 211 Post(s)
Tagged: 1 Thread(s)
Quoted: 18389 Post(s)
Liked 15,455 Times in 7,301 Posts
D.
indyfabz is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 08:45 AM
  #4  
imi
aka Timi
Thread Starter
 
imi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Posts: 3,237

Bikes: Bianchi Lupo (touring) Bianchi Volpe (commuter), Miyata On Off Road Runner

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked 128 Times in 98 Posts
I found this BF thread that might shed some light:

Why do Pros ride with their knees close to the top tube?
imi is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 08:57 AM
  #5  
djb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 13,207
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2735 Post(s)
Liked 967 Times in 791 Posts
Originally Posted by imi
I found this BF thread that might shed some light:

Why do Pros ride with their knees close to the top tube?
ok, you're not as crazy as I thought. I was concerned that you'd been out in -20c under dressed and were hypoTHermic.

im clearly in the "close in " group, but really, just pedal in the way that feels right. With all the crap we have on our bikes touring, knee position won't make a hoot of difference. Flappy clothes are surely more important, but stop calling me Shirley.

Last edited by djb; 01-25-21 at 12:01 PM. Reason: ha...hypodermic---autocorrected from hypothermic
djb is offline  
Likes For djb:
Old 01-25-21, 09:06 AM
  #6  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2010
Location: northern Deep South
Posts: 8,876

Bikes: Fuji Touring, Novara Randonee

Mentioned: 36 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2587 Post(s)
Liked 1,916 Times in 1,201 Posts
I haven't noticed a change between ordinary riding, touring, and commuting, for that matter. I get on the bike and pedal.
pdlamb is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 09:53 AM
  #7  
imi
aka Timi
Thread Starter
 
imi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Posts: 3,237

Bikes: Bianchi Lupo (touring) Bianchi Volpe (commuter), Miyata On Off Road Runner

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked 128 Times in 98 Posts
Originally Posted by djb
Crazy Swedes!
Originally Posted by djb
ok, you're not as crazy as I thought. I was concerned that you'd been out in -20c under dressed and were hypodermic.
Crazy Swedes, huh?

imi is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 10:40 AM
  #8  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: Madison, WI
Posts: 11,163

Bikes: 1961 Ideor, 1966 Perfekt 3 Speed AB Hub, 1994 Bridgestone MB-6, 2006 Airnimal Joey, 2009 Thorn Sherpa, 2013 Thorn Nomad MkII, 2015 VO Pass Hunter, 2017 Lynskey Backroad, 2017 Raleigh Gran Prix, 1980s Bianchi Mixte on a trainer. Others are now gone.

Mentioned: 47 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 3449 Post(s)
Liked 1,448 Times in 1,129 Posts
I use a handlebar bag and front panniers when touring. I also strap my rain gear on top of my front panniers were it is quickly available, the Ortieb Front Rollers have a convenient strap there. I find that those aerodynamic devices work very well to block the wind from my legs, thus my wind tunnel testing has shown that the knees-inward riding style only makes me 0.000000382 percent faster, which is not worth the effort. <Yes, this was intended to be humor, no I did not do wind tunnel testing with my panniers.>

I have also noticed that some people when their leg is on an upstroke will swing their knee outward a little bit, and those people usually appear to have a saddle that looks too low to me. That knee outward movement is only an inch or two at most, but noticeable if you are following someone that does it. Two people that I have toured with did that and both of them thought my saddle was unusually high.
Tourist in MSN is online now  
Old 01-25-21, 10:57 AM
  #9  
imi
aka Timi
Thread Starter
 
imi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Posts: 3,237

Bikes: Bianchi Lupo (touring) Bianchi Volpe (commuter), Miyata On Off Road Runner

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked 128 Times in 98 Posts
I think thereís more to it that just aerodynamics. Knees-in may well have bio-mechanical advantages.

When I first started using the technique it felt slightly unnatural, but after a short while I was convinced that just angling my knees in made me go faster without any added effort. Easy to test, just ride along with straight knees, then bend them in slightly.

Oh, this is of course another disadvantage to frame and top-tube bags which is why tourers with panniers - and knees-in - always leave bikepackers behind in their dust! 😉
imi is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 11:59 AM
  #10  
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Mar 2019
Posts: 1,606
Mentioned: 8 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 581 Post(s)
Liked 921 Times in 518 Posts
Everybody's body is different and through training you have to find what pedalling position and technique puts the least strain on your body.
When I was racing as a youth, the coach got us to train with our knees brushing the top tube, so that is how I ride now. If you did not spend your teen years worrying about the aerodynamic penalty of having your knees an extra 2cm wider, then forcing yourself to pedal in one way or another is more likely to result in injury than to lead to any improvement.

Your position on the bike, including saddle location and angle, and pedal cleat adjustment, should be as close to 'neutral' WRT your joints as possible. If something about your position makes some part of your body feel like it is being pulled away from a 'neutral' position, you must investigate and adjust/modify your bike to improve the situation.
ClydeClydeson is offline  
Likes For ClydeClydeson:
Old 01-25-21, 12:10 PM
  #11  
djb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 13,207
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2735 Post(s)
Liked 967 Times in 791 Posts
Originally Posted by imi
Crazy Swedes, huh?

https://youtu.be/nyuRRWC5GY8
hey, I've never got anything against watching a sexy Swedish chick partially disrobing and dipping into lake whajamacallit, but boy the novelty of getting into the icey water must wear off after a few weeks.
mind you, she did look very happy however drinking her coffee, so I guess it's all fine.

when I think of crazy Swedes, I think of a rally driver, ŗ la WRC.

and as for knee in knee out, I'm basically just as fricken slow no matter how I pedal, knees in, knees out, elbows in, elbows out, ears in, ears out.....
djb is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 01:22 PM
  #12  
imi
aka Timi
Thread Starter
 
imi's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Gothenburg, Sweden
Posts: 3,237

Bikes: Bianchi Lupo (touring) Bianchi Volpe (commuter), Miyata On Off Road Runner

Mentioned: 3 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 159 Post(s)
Liked 128 Times in 98 Posts
Originally Posted by djb
... I'm basically just as fricken slow no matter how I pedal, knees in, knees out, elbows in, elbows out, ears in, ears out.....

Last edited by imi; 01-25-21 at 01:25 PM.
imi is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 03:51 PM
  #13  
Sunshine
 
mstateglfr's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Des Moines, IA
Posts: 16,583

Bikes: '18 class built steel roadbike, '19 Fairlight Secan, '88 Schwinn Premis , Black Mountain Cycles Monstercross V4, '89 Novara Trionfo

Mentioned: 123 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 10937 Post(s)
Liked 7,451 Times in 4,170 Posts
My knees are mostly straight ahead of my hips. Maybe the knees are in a bit since my hips are wider than the distance between my feet on the pedals.
They for sure arent splayed outward like something goofy. I never understand that riding style, but to each their own I guess.
mstateglfr is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 04:03 PM
  #14  
Senior Member
 
79pmooney's Avatar
 
Join Date: Oct 2014
Location: Portland, OR
Posts: 12,870

Bikes: (2) ti TiCycles, 2007 w/ triple and 2011 fixed, 1979 Peter Mooney, ~1983 Trek 420 now fixed and ~1973 Raleigh Carlton Competition gravel grinder

Mentioned: 129 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 4772 Post(s)
Liked 3,889 Times in 2,528 Posts
I adopted the mantra of brushing the top tube my last season of racing for my knees. Helped a lot. I no longer do unless they are bothering me but I do always set my cleats up to force toe-in, especially on my right shoe.
79pmooney is online now  
Old 01-25-21, 04:21 PM
  #15  
Senior Member
 
Cougrrcj's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Location: NE Ohio
Posts: 3,478

Bikes: A few...

Mentioned: 16 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 620 Post(s)
Liked 370 Times in 256 Posts
What in the Hokey Pokey is all this talk of knees in and knees out?



.
Cougrrcj is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 08:31 PM
  #16  
djb
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Montreal Canada
Posts: 13,207
Mentioned: 33 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 2735 Post(s)
Liked 967 Times in 791 Posts
Originally Posted by Cougrrcj
What in the Hokey Pokey is all this talk of knees in and knees out?
.
I liked that one.
now it's stuck in my head.
djb is offline  
Old 01-25-21, 11:14 PM
  #17  
Senior Member
 
saddlesores's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Thailand..........Nakhon Nowhere
Posts: 3,654

Bikes: inferior steel....and....noodly aluminium

Mentioned: 24 Post(s)
Tagged: 0 Thread(s)
Quoted: 1053 Post(s)
Liked 341 Times in 229 Posts
Originally Posted by djb
Crazy Swedes!
I'm often knee out going into a corner, but other than that I haven't a clue what you mean ;-)
Oj! crazy is right! my former norwegian girlfriend explained it all to me.

BÝrk! BÝrk! BÝrk!



Last edited by saddlesores; 01-25-21 at 11:21 PM.
saddlesores is offline  

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are Off
Pingbacks are Off
Refbacks are Off


Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.