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Canadian Border

Old 03-04-21, 12:36 PM
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Canadian Border

Does anyone have info on when/if it will be open to a vaccinated bicycle tourist? Or even where to go for official info?
Thanks in advance.
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Old 03-04-21, 04:14 PM
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Closure is renewed on a monthly basis. 21st of the month IIRC.

Strong incentive to reopen for the summer, but hard to tell. The word seems to be this Fall at best.

[See [url=https://travel.gc.ca/travel-covid/travel-restrictions/answers/foreign-us-none-optional]here for up to date info]

[EDIT 2021-05-06]
The CBC has published a story today where experts forecast a late summer / early fall reopening, at best.

Earlier I wrote that there will be mounting pressure to reopen, but in fact the incentive at the national level is probably to delay borders reopening as much as possible since Canada experiences a large tourism deficit (more money spent by Canadians abroad than by tourists visiting Canada).

[/EDIT]

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Old 03-05-21, 07:13 PM
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Thank you, Merci.
Maybe as more people get vaccinated they will relax a little.
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Old 03-07-21, 06:20 AM
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Originally Posted by Pratt View Post
Thank you, Merci.
Maybe as more people get vaccinated they will relax a little.
latest is that canadians should be all vacinated by end of june, that schedule just moved earlier from july. so thats encouraging.
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Old 03-07-21, 12:13 PM
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Originally Posted by jpjuggler View Post
latest is that canadians should be all vacinated by end of june, that schedule just moved earlier from july. so thats encouraging.
1. Very doubtful. This recent account puts the figure at somewhere between 15M and 25M (out of 38M people) by the end of June. Midway through the article you can read "The timeline still shows that millions of Canadians will be waiting until sometime between July and September to receive their vaccines".

2. Recent developments wrt variants suggest that even once a large proportion of the population is vaccinated, you'll hear arguments in favor of maintaining travel restrictions as a precaution.


Not trying to argue here. I'd certainly like to be able to travel this summer. But we're planning relatively local "tours" for the forthcoming season.
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Old 03-07-21, 01:18 PM
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I usually do my bike tours in June and maybe into early July. This year am looking at Oct or Nov instead, and not crossing any international borders. I am in USA.

Starting to plan a foreign trip in 2022.
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Old 03-07-21, 03:24 PM
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Does this also mean the Peace Bridge is also closed for ped/bikers?
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Old 03-07-21, 04:32 PM
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Originally Posted by bktourer1 View Post
Does this also mean the Peace Bridge is also closed for ped/bikers?
I didn't try, but (1) I've asked in this forum and no one said that they've successfully tried; (2) the Canadian regulation stipulates different rules for air vs land. Doesn't say if you fly (assumed) or are parachuted; or drive, are being driven, walk, ride a bike or a horse.

If you wish, you are very likely to be able to find an unmanned point of entry (i.e. enter even though you aren't supposed to). This being said, search a bit and you'll find several anecdotes referring to stiff fines, jail and IIRC deportation. There's this legendary case of an illegal tourist being fined $900, who didn't stay confined in his hotel as per being told by the police, and now facing a six-figure fine + jail time. There's significant animus against such transgressions.
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Old 03-08-21, 02:13 PM
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Originally Posted by gauvins View Post
1. Very doubtful. This recent account puts the figure at somewhere between 15M and 25M (out of 38M people) by the end of June. Midway through the article you can read "The timeline still shows that millions of Canadians will be waiting until sometime between July and September to receive their vaccines".

2. Recent developments wrt variants suggest that even once a large proportion of the population is vaccinated, you'll hear arguments in favor of maintaining travel restrictions as a precaution.


Not trying to argue here. I'd certainly like to be able to travel this summer. But we're planning relatively local "tours" for the forthcoming season.
Yup. I too, would like to see the border open, but only if its considered safe.
If and when it does open, I would not be surprised to see internal travel restrictions ,ie. the Atlantic bubble, remain for some time.
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Old 03-08-21, 04:16 PM
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I've got a real itch to ride the Greater Niagara Circle Route an maybe a side trip or two with a buddy of mine. I've been to that area many times since childhood, but my ride partner has never been. We were going to ride it in 2020 and I'm still hoping for third quarter 2021, but when I read or listen to the Canadian news on the CBC, I get discouraged. I've had my double dose of Pfizer, but my buddy hasn't been able to get the shot yet. Between the slow roll out in Canada, his inability to get the shot yet, and the variants, I'm not feeling real hopeful.
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Old 03-09-21, 04:32 AM
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I'm with you on that and have been planning to do a Lake Huron circle tour for a couple years now. My a bike and gear sits in a New York cousin's garage and my double vaccination card is taped in the back of my passport. But there seems to be no promise on the horizon. Anyway, poking around northern Michigan in the spring won't be a bad second. I've always thought that Canadian health care was far above ours in the US but the current rollout of vaccines up there is puzzling. It's really ironic that some Canadians have flown to Florida to get a couple shots of the stuff. I wonder how they explain that to officials on their return.
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Old 03-09-21, 09:03 AM
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Originally Posted by tommymc View Post
I'm with you on that and have been planning to do a Lake Huron circle tour for a couple years now. My a bike and gear sits in a New York cousin's garage and my double vaccination card is taped in the back of my passport. But there seems to be no promise on the horizon. Anyway, poking around northern Michigan in the spring won't be a bad second. I've always thought that Canadian health care was far above ours in the US but the current rollout of vaccines up there is puzzling. It's really ironic that some Canadians have flown to Florida to get a couple shots of the stuff. I wonder how they explain that to officials on their return.
The problem in Canada is vaccine supply. All have to be imported from Europe or India. Most of the vaccine suppliers have had production problems, limiting deliveries. The US has put export controls on vaccines, none have been exported.
Canada has adminstered 84% of vaccines delivered, the equivalent statistic in the US is 80%. We just need much larger quantities.

The head of the Canada Pension Plan Investment Board flew to Dubai to get vaccinated. Nothing illegal about that, but he had to resign after the story came out.

Anyway, I hope the border opens and you get to do your tour.

https://globalnews.ca/news/7664251/c...pension-dubai/
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Old 03-09-21, 09:18 AM
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Here's an interesting take on how the US could play the vaccine card with Canada: Zeihan on Vaccine Diplomacy

At least the two national leaders aren't openly hostile.
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Old 03-09-21, 10:27 AM
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Originally Posted by Altair 4 View Post
Here's an interesting take on how the US could play the vaccine card with Canada: Zeihan on Vaccine Diplomacy

At least the two national leaders aren't openly hostile.
Hmmm. I am a bit skeptical of this guy's take, but still interesting.

I don't want to get into politics, just wanted to point out one of the reasons for Canada's slow vaccine roll out, which will affect the border re-opening.
There will be big pressure to open it before the summer tourist season, but at this point, I don't think Canada will be vaccinated till sometime in the fall.
I don't have a crystal ball, but lets just hope it happens sooner. I have a bike tour in Montana I want to do.
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Old 03-10-21, 10:21 AM
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Originally Posted by skookum View Post
but lets just hope it happens sooner. I have a bike tour in Montana I want to do.
Agreed - let's hope for the best! Good luck with your Montana tour.
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Old 03-10-21, 12:05 PM
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It sounds like it would be reasonable for it to become semi-permeable, open to vaccinated travelers. I realize governments are not always reasonable.
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Old 03-11-21, 11:32 AM
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Originally Posted by Pratt View Post
It sounds like it would be reasonable for it to become semi-permeable, open to vaccinated travelers. I realize governments are not always reasonable.
Let's think about this for a moment.... Over the last year, think about how many stories you've read about people with fake cards saying they don' have to wear a mask. It would be the same thing but worse. There's been leakage through the border of snowbirds heading South to Florida and Arizona: Helicopter from Canada to Buffalo

Dunno how they'll deal with trying to return now with the hotel quarantine rules in place.
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Old 03-11-21, 12:03 PM
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Originally Posted by Altair 4 View Post
Let's think about this for a moment.... Over the last year, think about how many stories you've read about people with fake cards saying they don' have to wear a mask. It would be the same thing but worse. ....
There are a couple organizations trying to figure out how to have a digital covid vaccination passport, (they are using the term passport) so that you could show something on your phone like a bar code and that could verify that you had the vaccine. That is being looked at for border crossings and some airlines are looking at that.

My state (Wisconsin) has an electronic registry of vaccinations, I can look up the dates that I had my flu shots going back over a decade. And the covid shots will be on that registry. The state maintains that, it can't be faked.

Some smart people are working on how to prove if you have had a test or had the vaccination(s), trying to make it easy to use such as a phone app.
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Old 03-11-21, 12:42 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post
There are a couple organizations trying to figure out how to have a digital covid vaccination passport, (they are using the term passport) so that you could show something on your phone like a bar code and that could verify that you had the vaccine. That is being looked at for border crossings and some airlines are looking at that.

My state (Wisconsin) has an electronic registry of vaccinations, I can look up the dates that I had my flu shots going back over a decade. And the covid shots will be on that registry. The state maintains that, it can't be faked.

Some smart people are working on how to prove if you have had a test or had the vaccination(s), trying to make it easy to use such as a phone app.
WHO has a paper format for a yellow fever card that looks like the following and is used by countries at points of admission.

We aren't quite there as far as standardization goes for Covid, but at point:
-- vaccines are more widely available in developing world and other places
-- we know how much it is a "one and done" vaccination vs. one that keeps changing
There definitely could be a similar standardization effort.

Just as Wisconsin has a registry, I've gotten various documents from Larimer County Colorado health department, Portland travel clinic and Texas doctors offices. So I have a collection of documents I can use to document vaccinations, etc but the problem is they aren't quite standard across different geographies and so tougher to really verify if you aren't from that geography.

WHO yellow fever cards can be faked, but I suspect the larger issue is mostly travelers that are unaware they need documentation and get tripped up at points of entry. So I think some limited standardization could also help a Covid type passport whether digital or in a paper representation. I suspect a paper backup will still be useful in the broadest usage.
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Old 03-11-21, 01:20 PM
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Originally Posted by mev View Post
WHO has a paper format for a yellow fever card that looks like the following and is used by countries at points of admission.
...
We aren't quite there as far as standardization goes for Covid, but at point:
-- vaccines are more widely available in developing world and other places
-- we know how much it is a "one and done" vaccination vs. one that keeps changing
There definitely could be a similar standardization effort.
....
I have read several articles on the latest attempts to make a digital version of the yellow card for Covid. But I was trying to avoid getting into too much detail, and we are months away from knowing which of the digital efforts will win out in the end. Or how it will work.

I suspect that the digital system will have to obtain information from government databases directly to avoid any chance of user falsified data. But that is only a guess on my part.

This article is non-paywall, I think everyone can read this.
https://www.cnbc.com/2021/03/05/digi...el-abroad.html
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Old 03-11-21, 02:28 PM
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Interesting article. Couple of things caught my attention. (1) "Thereality ... is we’re still six months away from any meaningful air travel," (this is a recent blurb -- puts us in September); (2) "Ultimately, the resumption of international travel will depend as much on countries’ willingness to reopen as it does on the travel verification technology in place."

My bet would be that frequent flyers registered on fast border controls such as Nexus or Parafe will have the option to add vaccine information. And that countries such as Canada and the US (or Schengen) will make it easier for these travellers to enter their space with less hassle than now, perhaps as early as late May. I would also think that next Fall is a reasonable target for "motivated" travel, such as visiting family.

Less clear for tourism. My expectation is we'll have to settle for regional touring this summer (i.e. free to travel where there were no border controls) but that it will take quite some time before things get back to preCOVID. As I said, I hope that "motivated travel" (ex: visiting family) will be possible in developed countries by this Fall. I'd think that more open access will depend on the vaccines track record. I am hopeful that we'll be able to ride a bike for the fun of it, in another country, next year.

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Old 03-11-21, 03:45 PM
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Originally Posted by gauvins View Post
Interesting article. Couple of things caught my attention. (1) "Thereality ... is we’re still six months away from any meaningful air travel," (this is a recent blurb -- puts us in September); (2) "Ultimately, the resumption of international travel will depend as much on countries’ willingness to reopen as it does on the travel verification technology in place."

My bet would be that frequent flyers registered on fast border controls such as Nexus or Parafe will have the option to add vaccine information. And that countries such as Canada and the US (or Schengen) will make it easier for these travellers to enter their space with less hassle than now, perhaps as early as late May. I would also think that next Fall is a reasonable target for "motivated" travel, such as visiting family.

Less clear for tourism. My expectation is we'll have to settle for regional touring this summer (i.e. free to travel where there were no border controls) but that it will take quite some time before things get back to preCOVID. As I said, I hope that "motivated travel" (ex: visiting family) will be possible in developed countries by this Fall. I'd think that more open access will depend on the vaccines track record. I am hopeful that we'll be able to ride a bike for the fun of it, in another country, next year.
A friend of mine was planning on LEJOG this fall (that is in the UK), I told him that I do not want to plan on anything until next year. I think a bike trip like he is talking about that relies on restaurants and indoor lodging, it is impossible to saw now who will still be in business in half a year.

i am planning on foreign travel in 2021, likely Europe.

Between USA and Canada, I would not be surprised if ground transportation is less stringent than air transport. For example, in USA you can get a passport card, that is the size of a credit card. I have ridden my bike across the Canada/USA border with just the passport card, but the card is not valid for international air transportation, for that you need the passport book.
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Old 03-11-21, 04:07 PM
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Originally Posted by Tourist in MSN View Post

Between USA and Canada, I would not be surprised if ground transportation is less stringent than air transport. For example, in USA you can get a passport card, that is the size of a credit card. I have ridden my bike across the Canada/USA border with just the passport card, but the card is not valid for international air transportation, for that you need the passport book.
Right now (March 11 2021) you can cross the Canada/US border more easily by air than on the ground. At least going from Canada to US by air. Going the other way is a different matter, non-essential travel is still banned, although it appears there are lots of loopholes.The mandatory hotel quarantine is not working well and may be abandoned soon.

Our PM is against vaccine passports, although that could change instantly.

I used to have a little yellow booklet for all my vaccinations, including yellow fever, but I haven't seen it for years, and I was never asked for it when crossing borders.

All my vaccination history is on my provincial health record, but given their relationship with modern technology and their attitude to change I would estimate about 20 years before they could integrate that with any kind of vaccine passport.
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Old 03-11-21, 04:42 PM
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There was a news story here, last Fall, about Canadian RVs being driven to Burlington Airport. They were driven by professional truck drivers, who were permitted. Then, the Canadian, snow bird, owners would arrive by air, get in the RV and drive to Florida where they would spend the Winter. How they are planning to return, I do not know.
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Old 03-11-21, 05:17 PM
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Originally Posted by Pratt View Post
There was a news story here, last Fall, about Canadian RVs being driven to Burlington Airport. They were driven by professional truck drivers, who were permitted. Then, the Canadian, snow bird, owners would arrive by air, get in the RV and drive to Florida where they would spend the Winter. How they are planning to return, I do not know.
That was a thing and apparently the price of getting your RV across the border increased dramatically during that time period.
Coming back they will (in theory) have to quarantine, whether they drive it over or fly back.

If they got vaxxed stateside good on them but it won't make it any easier to return, they will still have to quarantine.

Also, they would load two or three RVs on a big tractor trailer rig and haul them across the border.

Last edited by skookum; 03-11-21 at 05:19 PM. Reason: more thoughts
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